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> I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not o

> I can tell you, based on local examples, that politicians are setting up deals to bring in data centers without trying to build community support first. Not only that, they are often signing NDAs that prohibit them from telling voters what they have agreed to. It's no way to operate in a democracy, and voters are right to be angry. People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their property, or believing they should have some say in the "character" of their neighborhood that involves non-public land just doesnt make any sense to me. Why do people think that because they have a house somewhere they should get the ability to freeze an entire town in time and disallow anyone to build anything. Seriously, where did this mindset come from?

mattmatheus 3mo ago
NIMBYism has been popular for a long time. People really do want datacenters (or at least, the things that having datacenters enable).. they just want them somewhere else.
- vkou 3mo ago
  I'm not sure anyone but investors chasing yield feel a very strong need to see the planet covered in AI data centers, especially when the benefits seem to be rolling up, not down.
rescripting 3mo ago
This may come as a surprise to you, but people like living in pleasant surroundings. Just because I own the land does not mean I can open an abattoir next to an elementary school. Using land in different ways results in externalities that affect those around it. The people of a community should have some right to protect themselves from those externalities. How that happens in practice is a deeply flawed, messy, ugly process, but collectively deciding where to draw the line is part of living together as a community.
- jcgrillo 3mo ago
  The next town over from where I live has basically no rules. No zoning, if you want to turn your property into a junkyard go right ahead! Even still, people are successfully fighting against a trash company putting in a landfill. I believe the levers they're pulling are a state wetlands permit and a state solid waste permit. The system is working.
  - kannanvijayan 3mo ago
    Isn't that just leveraging the benefit of having access to a higher level of government which does have rules?
    - jcgrillo 3mo ago
      Sure, and why not? And there's an even higher level of government above that one. And if we really start misbehaving, there's an international level above that one... I think computer nerds call that kind of thing "defense in depth".
- anthonypasq 3mo ago
  Japan has essentially no local zoning laws and things work perfectly fine.
  - rescripting 3mo ago
    This is false, they’re called “Land Use Zones” in Japan. It’s a national system, unlike in the west which is largely implemented piecemeal by municipality.
    - anthonypasq 3mo ago
      >no local zoning laws can you read brother. do you know what the word local means
      - 3mo ago
jyounker 3mo ago
> People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their property, or believing they should have some say in the "character" of their neighborhood that involves non-public land just doesnt make any sense to me. Would you like me to buy the lot next to your house and set up a 3000W sound system pumping noise music 24 hours directly at your bedroom? Because that's what you're arguing for.
- irishcoffee 3mo ago
  Generally the law concerning this is called: “disturbing the peace” and is not tolerated.
  - 20after4 3mo ago
    But the noise from a data center is exempt. And if their water use exhausts the local aquifer, too bad for the locals.
  - kot_manul 3mo ago
    And laws are only as good as their enforcement. Taking GP's example further, let's say they have enough money to build their 3000W sound system AND maybe also build a cushy new building for the local police, who will then respond to your noise complaints by telling you it's really not that bad and maybe you should invest in some noise-canceling headphones.
  - jyounker 3mo ago
    So you acknowledge some classes of laws against use of property, and you agree with them.
ajross 3mo ago
> People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their property, or believing they should have some say in the "character" of their neighborhood So... iron smeltery next door for you then? Acid rain? Come on. There is reasonable concern for property rights and civil coexistence and then there's Randian Libertarian Claptrap, and you've hopped right into the deep end. YES, government has a clear and obvious interest, as a matter of principle, in the regulation of land use and development. This doesn't change just because you think the government made a wrong decision in a particular instance. The solution is to fix the government. Go vote for datacenter candidates. Seems like no one else is.
- nozzlegear 3mo ago
  Just tax acid rain byproduct
- anthonypasq 3mo ago
  im not suggesting the complete abolition of zoning, im saying 1. it should be controlled at the state or county level not locally 2. local communities/boards should have zero input in what is permitted if the project passes zoning laws. so no, iron smeltery in a residential neighboorhood not allowed. but if someone is trying to build a datacenter in an industrial area you have zero say in the matter.
_doctor_love 3mo ago
Your argument makes sense until you have a horrible neighbor. You can see it in action in a state like Montana which to my knowledge prohibits housing covenants. Want to park 12 cars that are rusting in your front yard? Do it! Neighbors can't do anything about it. But that does have the effect of lowering property value and degrading the neighborhood.
- Loughla 3mo ago
  There is a WILD difference between commercial properties coming in to residential areas and a neighbor with rusty cars. I'll happily live next to rusty car guy. I would rather eat glass than have to live near a data center.
- DANmode 3mo ago
  You may be confusing Montana with a much-worse place. Or confusing with State law preventing homeowners' associations (HOAs) from enforcing new covenants that restrict the use of your property, compared to what was allowed when you originally purchased it.
- anthonypasq 3mo ago
  you are the problem. your neighbor isnt doing anything illegal, they are just annoying you. why on earth would you think you should be able to do anything about it? again, owning a piece of property doesnt give you influence over the people around you if they arent doing anything illegal.
  - freejazz 3mo ago
    > doing anything illegal You are just putting off the hard work into "doing anything illegal" which is even more ironic considering this is a thread about people either a)passing laws which make constructing ai datacenters illegal or b) voting out politicians they do not believe are acting in the interest of the constituency
jvanderbot 3mo ago
Strong private property rights have to come with some protections against others' externalities - otherwise your property is harmed.
vkou 3mo ago
> People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their property If the data center existed in a vaccum, with no inputs or outputs, this argument would hold some weight. Instead, they stress limited water supplies, cause power shortages, increase GHG emissions (which we, the public ultimately have to pay for, either through mitigation or dealing with the damage after the fact). Oh, and also they may well have negative externalities to employment. They definitely have negative externalities to communication, the internet has been flooded with AIshit.
singleshot_ 3mo ago
> People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their property Yes, I believe that’s called “society” and while we are all very disappointed about your personal liberties I’m afraid some compromises had to be made to allow people other than you to have property rights too.
kokanee 3mo ago
So many of these conversations come back to the problem of privatized gains and socialized losses. Most things that create value have externalities. I kill the moss on my roof, then it rains and the chemicals go into the stream, then you try to go fishing and get skunked. I exerted my freedom as a private property owner and got the benefits; you paid for the drawbacks. We're all pulling from the same pile of resources, and the Earth doesn't care where your picket fence is. Data centers incur expensive externalities and you're asking the general public to bear those costs -- or "pay those taxes," if that resonates more. I suppose NIMBYism is part of it, but we're not talking about ugly condos here, we're talking about towns running out of electricity: https://fortune.com/2026/05/12/lake-tahoe-data-center-49000-residents-power-source/ https://fortune.com/2026/05/12/lake-tahoe-data-center-49000-....
outside1234 3mo ago
Are you from Texas? Because Texas is what you get with a policy like that.
nozzlegear 3mo ago
Amen, NIMBYs have ruined this country. Abolish zoning laws and nuke the suburbs, yeeclaw!
_DeadFred_ 3mo ago
Zoning is a promise from the government 'invest in a house (which is most people's largest investment in life) here and we guaranty we will work on our side to make sure it is fit for purpose (a good place to live/you won't lose money).'. These private property owners you are concerned about normally bought the land with these difficulties you are worried about priced in to the land's value. Why should to government hand them free money in the form of not enforcing what has been priced into the land value?

mattmatheus 3mo ago

NIMBYism has been popular for a long time. People really do want datacenters (or at least, the things that having datacenters enable).. they just want them somewhere else.

vkou 3mo ago
I'm not sure anyone but investors chasing yield feel a very strong need to see the planet covered in AI data centers, especially when the benefits seem to be rolling up, not down.

rescripting 3mo ago

This may come as a surprise to you, but people like living in pleasant surroundings. Just because I own the land does not mean I can open an abattoir next to an elementary school. Using land in different ways results in externalities that affect those around it. The people of a community should have some right to protect themselves from those externalities. How that happens in practice is a deeply flawed, messy, ugly process, but collectively deciding where to draw the line is part of living together as a community.

jcgrillo 3mo ago
The next town over from where I live has basically no rules. No zoning, if you want to turn your property into a junkyard go right ahead! Even still, people are successfully fighting against a trash company putting in a landfill. I believe the levers they're pulling are a state wetlands permit and a state solid waste permit. The system is working.
- kannanvijayan 3mo ago
  Isn't that just leveraging the benefit of having access to a higher level of government which does have rules?
  - jcgrillo 3mo ago
    Sure, and why not? And there's an even higher level of government above that one. And if we really start misbehaving, there's an international level above that one... I think computer nerds call that kind of thing "defense in depth".
anthonypasq 3mo ago
Japan has essentially no local zoning laws and things work perfectly fine.
- rescripting 3mo ago
  This is false, they’re called “Land Use Zones” in Japan. It’s a national system, unlike in the west which is largely implemented piecemeal by municipality.
  - anthonypasq 3mo ago
    >no local zoning laws can you read brother. do you know what the word local means
    - 3mo ago

jyounker 3mo ago

> People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their property, or believing they should have some say in the "character" of their neighborhood that involves non-public land just doesnt make any sense to me. Would you like me to buy the lot next to your house and set up a 3000W sound system pumping noise music 24 hours directly at your bedroom? Because that's what you're arguing for.

irishcoffee 3mo ago
Generally the law concerning this is called: “disturbing the peace” and is not tolerated.
- 20after4 3mo ago
  But the noise from a data center is exempt. And if their water use exhausts the local aquifer, too bad for the locals.
- kot_manul 3mo ago
  And laws are only as good as their enforcement. Taking GP's example further, let's say they have enough money to build their 3000W sound system AND maybe also build a cushy new building for the local police, who will then respond to your noise complaints by telling you it's really not that bad and maybe you should invest in some noise-canceling headphones.
- jyounker 3mo ago
  So you acknowledge some classes of laws against use of property, and you agree with them.

ajross 3mo ago

> People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their property, or believing they should have some say in the "character" of their neighborhood So... iron smeltery next door for you then? Acid rain? Come on. There is reasonable concern for property rights and civil coexistence and then there's Randian Libertarian Claptrap, and you've hopped right into the deep end. YES, government has a clear and obvious interest, as a matter of principle, in the regulation of land use and development. This doesn't change just because you think the government made a wrong decision in a particular instance. The solution is to fix the government. Go vote for datacenter candidates. Seems like no one else is.

nozzlegear 3mo ago
Just tax acid rain byproduct
anthonypasq 3mo ago
im not suggesting the complete abolition of zoning, im saying 1. it should be controlled at the state or county level not locally 2. local communities/boards should have zero input in what is permitted if the project passes zoning laws. so no, iron smeltery in a residential neighboorhood not allowed. but if someone is trying to build a datacenter in an industrial area you have zero say in the matter.

_doctor_love 3mo ago

Your argument makes sense until you have a horrible neighbor. You can see it in action in a state like Montana which to my knowledge prohibits housing covenants. Want to park 12 cars that are rusting in your front yard? Do it! Neighbors can't do anything about it. But that does have the effect of lowering property value and degrading the neighborhood.

Loughla 3mo ago
There is a WILD difference between commercial properties coming in to residential areas and a neighbor with rusty cars. I'll happily live next to rusty car guy. I would rather eat glass than have to live near a data center.
DANmode 3mo ago
You may be confusing Montana with a much-worse place. Or confusing with State law preventing homeowners' associations (HOAs) from enforcing new covenants that restrict the use of your property, compared to what was allowed when you originally purchased it.
anthonypasq 3mo ago
you are the problem. your neighbor isnt doing anything illegal, they are just annoying you. why on earth would you think you should be able to do anything about it? again, owning a piece of property doesnt give you influence over the people around you if they arent doing anything illegal.
- freejazz 3mo ago
  > doing anything illegal You are just putting off the hard work into "doing anything illegal" which is even more ironic considering this is a thread about people either a)passing laws which make constructing ai datacenters illegal or b) voting out politicians they do not believe are acting in the interest of the constituency

jvanderbot 3mo ago

Strong private property rights have to come with some protections against others' externalities - otherwise your property is harmed.

vkou 3mo ago

> People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their property If the data center existed in a vaccum, with no inputs or outputs, this argument would hold some weight. Instead, they stress limited water supplies, cause power shortages, increase GHG emissions (which we, the public ultimately have to pay for, either through mitigation or dealing with the damage after the fact). Oh, and also they may well have negative externalities to employment. They definitely have negative externalities to communication, the internet has been flooded with AIshit.

singleshot_ 3mo ago

> People believing they are entitled to dictate what other people do with their property Yes, I believe that’s called “society” and while we are all very disappointed about your personal liberties I’m afraid some compromises had to be made to allow people other than you to have property rights too.

kokanee 3mo ago

So many of these conversations come back to the problem of privatized gains and socialized losses. Most things that create value have externalities. I kill the moss on my roof, then it rains and the chemicals go into the stream, then you try to go fishing and get skunked. I exerted my freedom as a private property owner and got the benefits; you paid for the drawbacks. We're all pulling from the same pile of resources, and the Earth doesn't care where your picket fence is. Data centers incur expensive externalities and you're asking the general public to bear those costs -- or "pay those taxes," if that resonates more. I suppose NIMBYism is part of it, but we're not talking about ugly condos here, we're talking about towns running out of electricity: https://fortune.com/2026/05/12/lake-tahoe-data-center-49000-residents-power-source/ https://fortune.com/2026/05/12/lake-tahoe-data-center-49000-....

outside1234 3mo ago

Are you from Texas? Because Texas is what you get with a policy like that.

nozzlegear 3mo ago

Amen, NIMBYs have ruined this country. Abolish zoning laws and nuke the suburbs, yeeclaw!

_DeadFred_ 3mo ago

Zoning is a promise from the government 'invest in a house (which is most people's largest investment in life) here and we guaranty we will work on our side to make sure it is fit for purpose (a good place to live/you won't lose money).'. These private property owners you are concerned about normally bought the land with these difficulties you are worried about priced in to the land's value. Why should to government hand them free money in the form of not enforcing what has been priced into the land value?