4 ms·

I read somewhere that the owners have ties to russia, but the most important thing is that they’re marketing very aggressively through posts that slander Graphe

I read somewhere that the owners have ties to russia, but the most important thing is that they’re marketing very aggressively through posts that slander GraphenOS.

dijit 3mo ago
Jesus christ, what is this FUD? I know the people behind SailfishOS, they’re not like, friends or anything: just ex-Nokia developers who got fucked by Microsoft (like I did, btw, which is how I know of them). I feel like the big tech smartphone duopoly would have a reason to spread such rubbish, but its so patently obvious that I doubt they are so stupid.
- etdznots 3mo ago
  It’s a sensitive topic for the US because it is an an EU-backed and funded project to move away from US tech, which undermines US interests globally. which is why you might see some unusually intense anger/vitriol hurled their way and Goebbels-level fabrications
- TiredOfLife 3mo ago
  From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolla "It acquired new investors in 2016, among them the Russian company Votron. In March 2018 they were joined by Rostelecom (which is state owned) as investor, which took over Votron and OMP." Note that was after 2014 russian invasion into Ukraine.
  - dijit 3mo ago
    After the 2022 invasion of Ukraine, Jolla moved to cut ties. It sought to disengage from any Russian ownership from early 2022, entered corporate restructuring at the Pirkanmaa District Court, and on 24 November 2023 the court approved a programme obligating a complete sale of the business. In May 2024 the original Jolla company filed for bankruptcy, its activities having been taken over in 2023 by the Jollyboys company established by Jolla’s former management. The current entity is owned by the management team, with no Russian stake. So as of now, the “Russian-owned” framing is substantially outdated.
- Muromec 3mo ago
  The word to describe this is /законтачений/ . Some people are to be avoided even if they maintain the outward appearance of normalcy and not even realize themselves what the problem even is. Trust bit permanently burned, nothing to see here.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
ttkari 3mo ago
> they’re marketing very aggressively through posts that slander GraphenOS I would really appreciate it if you could give some references - any at all - to back this claim. All I have seen is GrapheneOS folks (or probably just a certain individual affiliated with the GrapheneOS org) accusing them of doing this.
g-b-r 3mo ago
[flagged]
- microtonal 3mo ago
  No, Jolla. They worked with the Russian government. But they cut ties even before the 2022 invasion: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/plea-for-official-statement-from-jolla/10430 https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/plea-for-official-statement-f...
  - iamnothere 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - Muromec 3mo ago
      You are trying to be funny, while russian drones fly above my mom's house, so it isn't as good of an answer to give as you may image
      - iamnothere 3mo ago
        I get frustrated when people draw imaginary Russian connections into projects/products that I like. It often happens with anything “hackerish” or non-mainstream (particularly privacy adjacent things) and has become quite annoying.
        Muromec 3mo ago
        being owned by the russian government is more than a trace amount of "imaginary" connection, but since you like it, it doesn't matter. I mean, okay, reality and your vibes not being in agreement is a legit reason to be frustrated. this being done by other people is even rude, I would say
        iamnothere 3mo ago
        Jolla restructured after the invasion of Ukraine and the founders hold a majority share, minority owners include employees and a Finnish investor. It’s a Finnish company. Hopefully you don’t have a problem with Finns? GrapheneOS is owned by a Canadian nonprofit foundation. One of the three board members is a Ukrainian national (currently conscripted but still on the board). Flipper Devices is a Delaware corporation, it indeed started in Russia, but it moved out after the Ukraine war. Ukrainian nationals are on the team. It does not export to Russia. Just to clear up some common misconceptions.
ndiddy 3mo ago
IIRC the company tried to become a major mobile operating system in the BRICS countries, which led to Rostelecom, the Russian state telecom operator, purchasing a majority state in the company in the mid-2010s. After Russia invaded Ukraine, the company's management started a new company and moved all their employees and IP over to it to escape the Russian ownership.
- Muromec 3mo ago
  Oh, thanks for sharing. everything russia related is a hard pass until they repent
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
VortexLain 3mo ago
Russian Aurora OS was an official Sailfish OS offspring, focused on MDM devices, but Sailfish cut ties with Aurora in 2022, after the Russia-Ukraine war has emerged. It's now developed independently of Sailfish, although they share the same code since the codebase was unified before the split.
lproven 3mo ago
> posts that slander GraphenOS. FWIW, as someone who is not in the phone OS development world at all but has been reviewing phones with alternative OSes for about the last 4 years... My impression is that everyone else in the phone-OS and deGoogled-Android world hates the GrapheneOS folks, and it's mutual. They seem to be borderline impossible to work with, very arrogant and protectionist, and the project's own support lifetime is "when Google no longer supports your phone, we don't either." Personally, I'd choose something else. Anything else, in fact.
- microtonal 3mo ago
  My impression is that everyone else in the phone-OS and deGoogled-Android world hates the GrapheneOS folks, and it's mutual. I don't think that is true. Team members regularly speak positively of iPhone security. E.g.: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/113874795519341571 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/113874795519341571 They also do not post much on LineageOS and when they do it usually articulates the difference between both (with LineageOS focusing more on customizability, while being much less secure). I think the strongest disagreement is with /e/OS, which is not surprising, because their founder goes around to various widely-viewed/read media insinuating that security hardening/GrapheneOS is only for pedophiles and spies. They seem to be borderline impossible to work with, very arrogant and protectionist, As a user, they seem to be responsive to bug reports and actively helping out people in their forums. Not sure what else I need. and the project's own support lifetime is "when Google no longer supports your phone, we don't either." But that makes sense, right? One of the main foci of GrapheneOS is security. If Google stops supporting a Pixel model, there will be no more updates of firmware bundles, etc. Most firmware has monthly CVEs, pretending that it doesn't would go counter one of the main goals of GrapheneOS. If you want to maintain such a phone as an insecure device after Google's update period, there are other options you could switch to. I am also not sure how much this matters. Even Pixel budget devices (a-series) have 7 years of security updates now. It's not only one of the longest in the industry, it's probably beyond how long 95% of the population uses a phone.
abc42 3mo ago
They did. This was an unfortunate reality for Finnish telecom companies before the Ukraine war. Russia was an obvious market and a company looking for profit would be practically forced to try to work there. As for Jolla, this is about the timeline: 2014 Russia attacks Crimea, temporarily occupies it 2016 Jolla grants Sailfish license to a private Open Mobile Platform LLC in Russia 2018 Rostelecom (state-owned Russian company) buys Open Mobile Platform 2020 Sailfish license to Rostelecom ends 2021 Jolla ceases all business in Russia -- at this point Rostelecom owns 32% of Jolla either directly or via subsidiaries 2022 Russia attacks rest of Ukraine in February 2022 Jolla starts dislodging from Russian ownership. Negotations with russian owners unsuccessful. 2023 Jollyboys Oy is formed, business restructuring of Jolla starts to move assets there 2024 Jolla files for bankruptcy to get finally rid of rest of the problematic ownership So the current company around the new Jolla phone is technically a new company and has none of the previous baggage, but retains most of the non-russian owners and staff of Jolla. The time between 2014-2022 was of course kind of problematic, but that was the reality in Europe. We still widely and naively gave Russia the benefit of the doubt back then. It seems to me that after Russia started the war in 2022, Jolla started immediately moving away from there. Sources: https://www.is.fi/taloussanomat/art-2000010451277.html https://www.is.fi/taloussanomat/art-2000010451277.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolla https://suomimobiili.fi/jollyboys-oy-ostaa-sailfish-os-kayttojarjestelmasta-tutun-jolla-oyn-liiketoiminnan/ https://suomimobiili.fi/jollyboys-oy-ostaa-sailfish-os-kaytt...

I read somewhere that the owners have ties to russia, but the most important thing is that they’re marketing very aggressively through posts that slander GraphenOS.

dijit 3mo ago

Jesus christ, what is this FUD? I know the people behind SailfishOS, they’re not like, friends or anything: just ex-Nokia developers who got fucked by Microsoft (like I did, btw, which is how I know of them). I feel like the big tech smartphone duopoly would have a reason to spread such rubbish, but its so patently obvious that I doubt they are so stupid.

etdznots 3mo ago
It’s a sensitive topic for the US because it is an an EU-backed and funded project to move away from US tech, which undermines US interests globally. which is why you might see some unusually intense anger/vitriol hurled their way and Goebbels-level fabrications
TiredOfLife 3mo ago
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolla "It acquired new investors in 2016, among them the Russian company Votron. In March 2018 they were joined by Rostelecom (which is state owned) as investor, which took over Votron and OMP." Note that was after 2014 russian invasion into Ukraine.
- dijit 3mo ago
  After the 2022 invasion of Ukraine, Jolla moved to cut ties. It sought to disengage from any Russian ownership from early 2022, entered corporate restructuring at the Pirkanmaa District Court, and on 24 November 2023 the court approved a programme obligating a complete sale of the business. In May 2024 the original Jolla company filed for bankruptcy, its activities having been taken over in 2023 by the Jollyboys company established by Jolla’s former management. The current entity is owned by the management team, with no Russian stake. So as of now, the “Russian-owned” framing is substantially outdated.
Muromec 3mo ago
The word to describe this is /законтачений/ . Some people are to be avoided even if they maintain the outward appearance of normalcy and not even realize themselves what the problem even is. Trust bit permanently burned, nothing to see here.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

ttkari 3mo ago

> they’re marketing very aggressively through posts that slander GraphenOS I would really appreciate it if you could give some references - any at all - to back this claim. All I have seen is GrapheneOS folks (or probably just a certain individual affiliated with the GrapheneOS org) accusing them of doing this.

g-b-r 3mo ago

[flagged]

microtonal 3mo ago
No, Jolla. They worked with the Russian government. But they cut ties even before the 2022 invasion: https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/plea-for-official-statement-from-jolla/10430 https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/plea-for-official-statement-f...
- iamnothere 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - Muromec 3mo ago
    You are trying to be funny, while russian drones fly above my mom's house, so it isn't as good of an answer to give as you may image
    - iamnothere 3mo ago
      I get frustrated when people draw imaginary Russian connections into projects/products that I like. It often happens with anything “hackerish” or non-mainstream (particularly privacy adjacent things) and has become quite annoying.
      - Muromec 3mo ago
        being owned by the russian government is more than a trace amount of "imaginary" connection, but since you like it, it doesn't matter. I mean, okay, reality and your vibes not being in agreement is a legit reason to be frustrated. this being done by other people is even rude, I would say
        iamnothere 3mo ago
        Jolla restructured after the invasion of Ukraine and the founders hold a majority share, minority owners include employees and a Finnish investor. It’s a Finnish company. Hopefully you don’t have a problem with Finns? GrapheneOS is owned by a Canadian nonprofit foundation. One of the three board members is a Ukrainian national (currently conscripted but still on the board). Flipper Devices is a Delaware corporation, it indeed started in Russia, but it moved out after the Ukraine war. Ukrainian nationals are on the team. It does not export to Russia. Just to clear up some common misconceptions.

ndiddy 3mo ago

IIRC the company tried to become a major mobile operating system in the BRICS countries, which led to Rostelecom, the Russian state telecom operator, purchasing a majority state in the company in the mid-2010s. After Russia invaded Ukraine, the company's management started a new company and moved all their employees and IP over to it to escape the Russian ownership.

Muromec 3mo ago
Oh, thanks for sharing. everything russia related is a hard pass until they repent
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]

VortexLain 3mo ago

Russian Aurora OS was an official Sailfish OS offspring, focused on MDM devices, but Sailfish cut ties with Aurora in 2022, after the Russia-Ukraine war has emerged. It's now developed independently of Sailfish, although they share the same code since the codebase was unified before the split.

lproven 3mo ago

> posts that slander GraphenOS. FWIW, as someone who is not in the phone OS development world at all but has been reviewing phones with alternative OSes for about the last 4 years... My impression is that everyone else in the phone-OS and deGoogled-Android world hates the GrapheneOS folks, and it's mutual. They seem to be borderline impossible to work with, very arrogant and protectionist, and the project's own support lifetime is "when Google no longer supports your phone, we don't either." Personally, I'd choose something else. Anything else, in fact.

microtonal 3mo ago
My impression is that everyone else in the phone-OS and deGoogled-Android world hates the GrapheneOS folks, and it's mutual. I don't think that is true. Team members regularly speak positively of iPhone security. E.g.: https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/113874795519341571 https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/113874795519341571 They also do not post much on LineageOS and when they do it usually articulates the difference between both (with LineageOS focusing more on customizability, while being much less secure). I think the strongest disagreement is with /e/OS, which is not surprising, because their founder goes around to various widely-viewed/read media insinuating that security hardening/GrapheneOS is only for pedophiles and spies. They seem to be borderline impossible to work with, very arrogant and protectionist, As a user, they seem to be responsive to bug reports and actively helping out people in their forums. Not sure what else I need. and the project's own support lifetime is "when Google no longer supports your phone, we don't either." But that makes sense, right? One of the main foci of GrapheneOS is security. If Google stops supporting a Pixel model, there will be no more updates of firmware bundles, etc. Most firmware has monthly CVEs, pretending that it doesn't would go counter one of the main goals of GrapheneOS. If you want to maintain such a phone as an insecure device after Google's update period, there are other options you could switch to. I am also not sure how much this matters. Even Pixel budget devices (a-series) have 7 years of security updates now. It's not only one of the longest in the industry, it's probably beyond how long 95% of the population uses a phone.

abc42 3mo ago

They did. This was an unfortunate reality for Finnish telecom companies before the Ukraine war. Russia was an obvious market and a company looking for profit would be practically forced to try to work there. As for Jolla, this is about the timeline: 2014 Russia attacks Crimea, temporarily occupies it 2016 Jolla grants Sailfish license to a private Open Mobile Platform LLC in Russia 2018 Rostelecom (state-owned Russian company) buys Open Mobile Platform 2020 Sailfish license to Rostelecom ends 2021 Jolla ceases all business in Russia -- at this point Rostelecom owns 32% of Jolla either directly or via subsidiaries 2022 Russia attacks rest of Ukraine in February 2022 Jolla starts dislodging from Russian ownership. Negotations with russian owners unsuccessful. 2023 Jollyboys Oy is formed, business restructuring of Jolla starts to move assets there 2024 Jolla files for bankruptcy to get finally rid of rest of the problematic ownership So the current company around the new Jolla phone is technically a new company and has none of the previous baggage, but retains most of the non-russian owners and staff of Jolla. The time between 2014-2022 was of course kind of problematic, but that was the reality in Europe. We still widely and naively gave Russia the benefit of the doubt back then. It seems to me that after Russia started the war in 2022, Jolla started immediately moving away from there. Sources: https://www.is.fi/taloussanomat/art-2000010451277.html https://www.is.fi/taloussanomat/art-2000010451277.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolla https://suomimobiili.fi/jollyboys-oy-ostaa-sailfish-os-kayttojarjestelmasta-tutun-jolla-oyn-liiketoiminnan/ https://suomimobiili.fi/jollyboys-oy-ostaa-sailfish-os-kaytt...