3 ms·

> I looked in to it and it seemed like 10gbit was much better over fiber. Yes, except that most devices use Ethernet. So, at the end of the day, you still need

by drnick1 4mo ago

> I looked in to it and it seemed like 10gbit was much better over fiber. Yes, except that most devices use Ethernet. So, at the end of the day, you still need Ethernet cables unless you want to deal with an additional switch or converter in every room.

Gigachad 4mo ago
Indeed, that's largely why I decided 10gbit at home isn't really worth it. The current 10gbit ethernet stuff is expensive and power hungry, the enterprise stuff is hard to use on consumer gear. And the only real use case is super fast access to a nas.
- kstrauser 4mo ago
  I got it solely because our ISP bumped our home fiber to 10Gb and it would’ve hurt my soul for the router to be slower than that. And hey, if you’ve already got a router with 10Gb ports available and ready to go…
eqvinox 4mo ago
Fiber/10Gbase-*R is Ethernet too. Please say copper/RJ45/base-T when you mean copper/RJ45/base-T.
- sekh60 4mo ago
  Thank you.
- antonvs 4mo ago
  Excuse me, I believe you mean GNU/copper/RJ45/base-T
  - eqvinox 4mo ago
    My copper/RJ45/base-T is running musl libc + busybox!
- fluoridation 4mo ago
  If you want to ackshually, both fiber and copper are empty pipes that can carry any layer 2 protocol, and are not inherently Ethernet. They only become Ethernet cables when they're connected to terminals that pass that protocol through them. Unless we're defining some networking standard, "Ethernet cable" is a perfectly acceptable term. Everyone will understand what is meant. The added specificity you're asking for doesn't improve the quality of communication.
  - eqvinox 4mo ago
    That's why I added base-*R/base-T. And particularly for 10GE the heat and power problems are due to the copper transceiver DSPs. And people nerdy enough to run 10GE at home might well run fibre. So, no, the specifity is needed and useful.
    - fluoridation 4mo ago
      >That's why I added base-*R/base-T. You're still talking about a cable. The cable may be compatible with those standards, but you can put anything through it. It's just a physical connection. >And people nerdy enough to run 10GE at home might well run fibre. So, no, the specifity is needed and useful. No, because if you say "which do you want? Ethernet or fiber?" no one will look at you like if you asked if they want salt or beef. It's technically incorrect, but everyone will understand what is being asked.
      - eqvinox 4mo ago
        > You're still talking about a cable. The cable may be compatible with those standards, but you can put anything through it. It's just a physical connection. If you want to ackshually, the post I was replying to was talking about what "devices use" and cables required for that, so it's in fact about what standards these devices support. Apart from that, again, in the context of 10GE you can by no means assume copper when talking about an Ethernet port; SFP+ slots are quite common. Your assertion that "everyone will understand" is also something I plainly know to be untrue in my bubble. It may be true in the context of slower speeds, but for ≥10GE the general performance characteristics of twisted-pair copper transceivers are so bad as to make it into the crossover point from copper cabling into DAC cables and fibre. And, honestly, the assumption that "Ethernet = copper cabling" is harmful for 10GE. Those transceivers are hot garbage in the literal sense, they run hot enough to warrant usage limitations on switches due to cooling/overheating limits, and they tend to be quite picky about cable quality on establishing links.
Dylan16807 4mo ago
> every room I disagree with that for two reasons. First, my central switch is probably capable of both copper and fiber. Second, how many wired devices do you have spread around your house? Let's say I have an above average number of devices: a router, a NAS, two access points, and three desktops. Router, NAS, and one access point can all be adjacent to the switch and avoid any conversion hassle. The desktops are using fiber so no conversion hassle there. That leaves one copper cable or converter needed for the other access point.
- krisroadruck 4mo ago
  I guess I have rather overestimated what a normal amount of wired devices is based on my own sample size. That or the opposite is happening with you. My house has a POE doorbell, several POE cameras, 2 TVs that each get a connection to their attached android TV boxes, Wife's office gets a pair of connections, ditto with mine, then you've got the APs for the wireless bits + a few servers in the rack with the networking equipment. Mind you I know I am on the high side, but I use that as the reference point. I'd figure a normal house would have 4-5 wired connections to my 20ish.
  - Dylan16807 4mo ago
    In that situation I'd basically consider the doorbell and cameras as a separate install. That mainly leaves the TVs, which I would just throw on the wireless but for wiring I'd still say you run it to your central switching spot that handles both copper and fiber.
trumpdong 4mo ago
If you have a fixed computer or NAS, stop making excuses and install a 10G fiber card in it. If you have a laptop or TV it probably doesn't need 10G.
- bjt12345 4mo ago
  Fibre requires conduit with specific radius bends, making it difficult to route through a house.
  - mscdex 4mo ago
    You'd be amazed what exists on the market these days. For example, the pre-terminated InvisiLight fiber cabling is 0.6mm in diameter and has a 2.5mm bend radius. I've personally installed this cabling while making many 90 degree (and sharper in some cases) bends without any issues. That makes it easy to hide and trivial to fit right through doorways and other tight spaces too.
  - rescbr 4mo ago
    Having cabled my apartment with Cat 6 definitely made me prefer fiber, it would have been a breeze instead of pulling thick cables from my office to other rooms. Cat 6 also shouldn’t be bent or you risk it going out of spec, and modern fiber nowadays have bend radius comparable to (or even smaller than) Cat 6. I see how sloppy some FTTH installs are and they all work fine, and this is for light that travels for long distances. The only advantage copper has is PoE.
  - vdm 4mo ago
    https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-invisible-OR-transparent-sc-OR-lc-apc-OR-upc.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.search.0 https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-invisible-OR-transpar...
- drnick1 4mo ago
  > If you have a fixed computer or NAS, stop making excuses and install a 10G fiber card in it. It's hard to justify when Ethernet is catching up. Most new motherboards have a 2.5G port. High-end motherboards have 10G Ethernet ports. SFP cards take space, are ugly, and need directed airflow to stay cool. They are not worth it for a 4x increase in bandwidth at best.

by drnick1 4mo ago

Gigachad 4mo ago

Indeed, that's largely why I decided 10gbit at home isn't really worth it. The current 10gbit ethernet stuff is expensive and power hungry, the enterprise stuff is hard to use on consumer gear. And the only real use case is super fast access to a nas.

kstrauser 4mo ago
I got it solely because our ISP bumped our home fiber to 10Gb and it would’ve hurt my soul for the router to be slower than that. And hey, if you’ve already got a router with 10Gb ports available and ready to go…

eqvinox 4mo ago

Fiber/10Gbase-*R is Ethernet too. Please say copper/RJ45/base-T when you mean copper/RJ45/base-T.

sekh60 4mo ago
Thank you.
antonvs 4mo ago
Excuse me, I believe you mean GNU/copper/RJ45/base-T
- eqvinox 4mo ago
  My copper/RJ45/base-T is running musl libc + busybox!
fluoridation 4mo ago
If you want to ackshually, both fiber and copper are empty pipes that can carry any layer 2 protocol, and are not inherently Ethernet. They only become Ethernet cables when they're connected to terminals that pass that protocol through them. Unless we're defining some networking standard, "Ethernet cable" is a perfectly acceptable term. Everyone will understand what is meant. The added specificity you're asking for doesn't improve the quality of communication.
- eqvinox 4mo ago
  That's why I added base-*R/base-T. And particularly for 10GE the heat and power problems are due to the copper transceiver DSPs. And people nerdy enough to run 10GE at home might well run fibre. So, no, the specifity is needed and useful.
  - fluoridation 4mo ago
    >That's why I added base-*R/base-T. You're still talking about a cable. The cable may be compatible with those standards, but you can put anything through it. It's just a physical connection. >And people nerdy enough to run 10GE at home might well run fibre. So, no, the specifity is needed and useful. No, because if you say "which do you want? Ethernet or fiber?" no one will look at you like if you asked if they want salt or beef. It's technically incorrect, but everyone will understand what is being asked.
    - eqvinox 4mo ago
      > You're still talking about a cable. The cable may be compatible with those standards, but you can put anything through it. It's just a physical connection. If you want to ackshually, the post I was replying to was talking about what "devices use" and cables required for that, so it's in fact about what standards these devices support. Apart from that, again, in the context of 10GE you can by no means assume copper when talking about an Ethernet port; SFP+ slots are quite common. Your assertion that "everyone will understand" is also something I plainly know to be untrue in my bubble. It may be true in the context of slower speeds, but for ≥10GE the general performance characteristics of twisted-pair copper transceivers are so bad as to make it into the crossover point from copper cabling into DAC cables and fibre. And, honestly, the assumption that "Ethernet = copper cabling" is harmful for 10GE. Those transceivers are hot garbage in the literal sense, they run hot enough to warrant usage limitations on switches due to cooling/overheating limits, and they tend to be quite picky about cable quality on establishing links.

Dylan16807 4mo ago

> every room I disagree with that for two reasons. First, my central switch is probably capable of both copper and fiber. Second, how many wired devices do you have spread around your house? Let's say I have an above average number of devices: a router, a NAS, two access points, and three desktops. Router, NAS, and one access point can all be adjacent to the switch and avoid any conversion hassle. The desktops are using fiber so no conversion hassle there. That leaves one copper cable or converter needed for the other access point.

krisroadruck 4mo ago
I guess I have rather overestimated what a normal amount of wired devices is based on my own sample size. That or the opposite is happening with you. My house has a POE doorbell, several POE cameras, 2 TVs that each get a connection to their attached android TV boxes, Wife's office gets a pair of connections, ditto with mine, then you've got the APs for the wireless bits + a few servers in the rack with the networking equipment. Mind you I know I am on the high side, but I use that as the reference point. I'd figure a normal house would have 4-5 wired connections to my 20ish.
- Dylan16807 4mo ago
  In that situation I'd basically consider the doorbell and cameras as a separate install. That mainly leaves the TVs, which I would just throw on the wireless but for wiring I'd still say you run it to your central switching spot that handles both copper and fiber.

trumpdong 4mo ago

If you have a fixed computer or NAS, stop making excuses and install a 10G fiber card in it. If you have a laptop or TV it probably doesn't need 10G.

bjt12345 4mo ago
Fibre requires conduit with specific radius bends, making it difficult to route through a house.
- mscdex 4mo ago
  You'd be amazed what exists on the market these days. For example, the pre-terminated InvisiLight fiber cabling is 0.6mm in diameter and has a 2.5mm bend radius. I've personally installed this cabling while making many 90 degree (and sharper in some cases) bends without any issues. That makes it easy to hide and trivial to fit right through doorways and other tight spaces too.
- rescbr 4mo ago
  Having cabled my apartment with Cat 6 definitely made me prefer fiber, it would have been a breeze instead of pulling thick cables from my office to other rooms. Cat 6 also shouldn’t be bent or you risk it going out of spec, and modern fiber nowadays have bend radius comparable to (or even smaller than) Cat 6. I see how sloppy some FTTH installs are and they all work fine, and this is for light that travels for long distances. The only advantage copper has is PoE.
- vdm 4mo ago
  https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-invisible-OR-transparent-sc-OR-lc-apc-OR-upc.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.search.0 https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-invisible-OR-transpar...
drnick1 4mo ago
> If you have a fixed computer or NAS, stop making excuses and install a 10G fiber card in it. It's hard to justify when Ethernet is catching up. Most new motherboards have a 2.5G port. High-end motherboards have 10G Ethernet ports. SFP cards take space, are ugly, and need directed airflow to stay cool. They are not worth it for a 4x increase in bandwidth at best.