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Maybe colleges and scholarships that make admission decisions based on adversity can someday objectively measure it by DNA methylation. Also for reparations or

Maybe colleges and scholarships that make admission decisions based on adversity can someday objectively measure it by DNA methylation. Also for reparations or welfare benefits. It would seem to be a more direct proxy than melanin pigment density. But on the other hand, adversity does not equal disadvantage, and in fact the trials that leave those marks -- beneath some threshold -- may bestow an advantage over unstressed peers. Like released hatchery fish have ~10% of the survival rate of wild fish. A low methylation score could be interpreted as a call to mature a child's tissues more rapidly by the curated application of adversity.

jmole 4mo ago
> released hatchery fish have ~10% of the survival rate of wild fish. Is that inclusive of the entire egg->fry->fish cycle? I wouldn't be surprised if wild fish had extremely high "infant mortality" compared to hatchery fish
BigTTYGothGF 4mo ago
That's certainly a solution.
consensus1 4mo ago
Maybe colleges can just accept the best students and do their job of educating them instead of arrogantly appointing themselves as saviors and righters of all wrongs in the world.
- jasonmp85 4mo ago
  [dead]
- readthenotes1 4mo ago
  In the USA, at least, "every student college bound" has led to colleges being simply more high school but at an enormous cost of creating indentured servents. It will be very hard to to force colleges to downsize to the appropriate population count. Lots of prestige and money on the line
  - rolph 4mo ago
    the size of the cohort isnt the problem, its the enshrinement of catechisms that perpetuate a mentality of blue collar legacy.
    - MyHonestOpinon 4mo ago
      Can you explain ? I understand each word but not the meaning of the whole sentence.
  - consensus1 4mo ago
    It would actually be very easy. Just stop subsidizing them with student loans from the government.
- malfist 4mo ago
  Higher education is the most potent tool for breaking the cycle of poverty. Your plan would lock people into the cycle of poverty for generations. Besides, how do you even define "best student". One that scores the highest on the SATs and has the highest high school grade? There's so much more to being a good learner than having the opportunity to get high grades and high test scores.
  - WalterBright 4mo ago
    SAT scores are excellent predictors of success in college. The triad top colleges look for: 1. SAT score 2. high school grades 3. evidence of being a self-motivated person
  - consensus1 4mo ago
    It's the opposite. Gatekeeping employment on that stupid credential is the best way to keep people in poverty.
- bossyTeacher 4mo ago
  > Maybe colleges can just accept the best students If you want to see what a world where universities do that, check Europe in the 11th century. You might just like it
  - alex43578 4mo ago
    And if you want to see a world where colleges accept everyone, without requiring a minimum qualification, look at our current system: over 50% of students lack proficient literacy skills. It shouldn’t be controversial to recognize that some students are not capable of success in college.
    - rolph 4mo ago
      do you mean intrinsically not capable, or systemicaly not capable.
      - alex43578 4mo ago
        Intrinsically. Someone with an IQ of 85 will not be successful in college. The idea that anyone can be anything is harmful to everyone. If you are 5’2”, you won’t make it in today’s NBA. If you are 400lbs, you are not healthy. I’m sure some people have been failed by the K-12 educational system, but the answer isn’t to further degrade the college system.
        tptacek 4mo ago
        This assumes "IQ" is fixed, but it isn't.
        alex43578 4mo ago
        IQ remains relatively stable through life: that’s what makes it a good measure of general intelligence, when tested appropriately. It’s even more predictive when you realize that the SAT/ACT are given a year or two before college: this isn’t tracking someone at age 5, but saying someone a year away from college lacks the skills and knowledge to perform well in class next year. If schools actually consistently applied standardized test scores as part of admissions, without padding scores for race or economics, it’d be better for everyone. It might sting to be told you won’t do well in college, but wouldn’t that $100 test be better than taking on $50K in debt to find that out? Research backs this: SAT scores strongly correlate with GPA, retention, and degree completion. High scores even are predictors of life outcomes: income, occupational achievement, medical degrees, etc.
- reubenswartz 4mo ago
  What does "best" mean?
Aurornis 4mo ago
> Maybe colleges and scholarships that make admission decisions based on adversity can someday objectively measure it by DNA methylation. Also for reparations or welfare benefits. > A low methylation score could be interpreted as a call to mature a child's tissues more rapidly by the curated application of adversity. The paper didn't even find a unidirectional correlation between methylation and adversity. They say right in this article that some adversity was correlated with changes they would expect to see with slowed aging (which does not mean adversity slowed aging, it's just a marker). Those markers are also correlated with many other factors like the size of the animal. It's not a marker of adversity.
- rbanffy 4mo ago
  > The paper didn't even find a unidirectional correlation between methylation and adversity Since when has science stopped someone who wanted to use DNA to assign someone a fixed role in society?
rolph 4mo ago
Gattaca (1997) - IMDb https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177
AaronAPU 4mo ago
lol, you might change your mind when reparations end up going out to a very different set of people than you expected.
MyHonestOpinon 4mo ago
I am not sure if your initial paragraph was meant to be sarcastic. I do believe we should give additional help based on economic need rather than race or skin color. Free universal preschool seems to have big impact. Also free universal school lunches are too. There may be other examples too.
- alex43578 4mo ago
  Sure, many of those interventions are widely accepted. The controversial question is when do they stop? If, despite those interventions, your ACT score is 9 points below a more affluent student, do you still deserve a boost? At 35, despite picking up a conviction for theft and possession, and now working a minimum wage job, should the taxpayers have to fund a 2 bedroom apartment for you, pay for your groceries, pay for your healthcare?
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]

jmole 4mo ago

> released hatchery fish have ~10% of the survival rate of wild fish. Is that inclusive of the entire egg->fry->fish cycle? I wouldn't be surprised if wild fish had extremely high "infant mortality" compared to hatchery fish

BigTTYGothGF 4mo ago

That's certainly a solution.

consensus1 4mo ago

Maybe colleges can just accept the best students and do their job of educating them instead of arrogantly appointing themselves as saviors and righters of all wrongs in the world.

jasonmp85 4mo ago
[dead]
readthenotes1 4mo ago
In the USA, at least, "every student college bound" has led to colleges being simply more high school but at an enormous cost of creating indentured servents. It will be very hard to to force colleges to downsize to the appropriate population count. Lots of prestige and money on the line
- rolph 4mo ago
  the size of the cohort isnt the problem, its the enshrinement of catechisms that perpetuate a mentality of blue collar legacy.
  - MyHonestOpinon 4mo ago
    Can you explain ? I understand each word but not the meaning of the whole sentence.
- consensus1 4mo ago
  It would actually be very easy. Just stop subsidizing them with student loans from the government.
malfist 4mo ago
Higher education is the most potent tool for breaking the cycle of poverty. Your plan would lock people into the cycle of poverty for generations. Besides, how do you even define "best student". One that scores the highest on the SATs and has the highest high school grade? There's so much more to being a good learner than having the opportunity to get high grades and high test scores.
- WalterBright 4mo ago
  SAT scores are excellent predictors of success in college. The triad top colleges look for: 1. SAT score 2. high school grades 3. evidence of being a self-motivated person
- consensus1 4mo ago
  It's the opposite. Gatekeeping employment on that stupid credential is the best way to keep people in poverty.
bossyTeacher 4mo ago
> Maybe colleges can just accept the best students If you want to see what a world where universities do that, check Europe in the 11th century. You might just like it
- alex43578 4mo ago
  And if you want to see a world where colleges accept everyone, without requiring a minimum qualification, look at our current system: over 50% of students lack proficient literacy skills. It shouldn’t be controversial to recognize that some students are not capable of success in college.
  - rolph 4mo ago
    do you mean intrinsically not capable, or systemicaly not capable.
    - alex43578 4mo ago
      Intrinsically. Someone with an IQ of 85 will not be successful in college. The idea that anyone can be anything is harmful to everyone. If you are 5’2”, you won’t make it in today’s NBA. If you are 400lbs, you are not healthy. I’m sure some people have been failed by the K-12 educational system, but the answer isn’t to further degrade the college system.
      - tptacek 4mo ago
        This assumes "IQ" is fixed, but it isn't.
        alex43578 4mo ago
        IQ remains relatively stable through life: that’s what makes it a good measure of general intelligence, when tested appropriately. It’s even more predictive when you realize that the SAT/ACT are given a year or two before college: this isn’t tracking someone at age 5, but saying someone a year away from college lacks the skills and knowledge to perform well in class next year. If schools actually consistently applied standardized test scores as part of admissions, without padding scores for race or economics, it’d be better for everyone. It might sting to be told you won’t do well in college, but wouldn’t that $100 test be better than taking on $50K in debt to find that out? Research backs this: SAT scores strongly correlate with GPA, retention, and degree completion. High scores even are predictors of life outcomes: income, occupational achievement, medical degrees, etc.
reubenswartz 4mo ago
What does "best" mean?

Aurornis 4mo ago

> Maybe colleges and scholarships that make admission decisions based on adversity can someday objectively measure it by DNA methylation. Also for reparations or welfare benefits. > A low methylation score could be interpreted as a call to mature a child's tissues more rapidly by the curated application of adversity. The paper didn't even find a unidirectional correlation between methylation and adversity. They say right in this article that some adversity was correlated with changes they would expect to see with slowed aging (which does not mean adversity slowed aging, it's just a marker). Those markers are also correlated with many other factors like the size of the animal. It's not a marker of adversity.

rbanffy 4mo ago
> The paper didn't even find a unidirectional correlation between methylation and adversity Since when has science stopped someone who wanted to use DNA to assign someone a fixed role in society?

rolph 4mo ago

Gattaca (1997) - IMDb https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177

AaronAPU 4mo ago

lol, you might change your mind when reparations end up going out to a very different set of people than you expected.

MyHonestOpinon 4mo ago

I am not sure if your initial paragraph was meant to be sarcastic. I do believe we should give additional help based on economic need rather than race or skin color. Free universal preschool seems to have big impact. Also free universal school lunches are too. There may be other examples too.

alex43578 4mo ago
Sure, many of those interventions are widely accepted. The controversial question is when do they stop? If, despite those interventions, your ACT score is 9 points below a more affluent student, do you still deserve a boost? At 35, despite picking up a conviction for theft and possession, and now working a minimum wage job, should the taxpayers have to fund a 2 bedroom apartment for you, pay for your groceries, pay for your healthcare?

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]