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>This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about. Yeah, like all those Chines
by gruez 4mo ago
>This is great for competition! Chinese vendors offering a cheaper solution = what economics told me the free market was all about.
Yeah, like all those Chinese bootleggers selling DVDs for a few dollars rather than $20. Free market!
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48664814
- gaiagraphia 4mo agoIt's quite curious how multi billion dollar enterprises can't compete with a Chinese bootlegger with a big jacket, tbh. Imagine having such a warchest and being so bad at business, lol.
- 14 4mo agoMy biggest concern with pirating has always been malicious programs. But companies still need to show value in their products or people will pirate. What added value can Anthropic give users not available to pirating users? That is what they should ask themselves.
- kay_o 4mo agoZDR but that is meaningless if the person wants to do nothing more than cheat on homework (or has enough hardware to run a local model)
- tancop 4mo agoany third party provider can offer zdr. if its a reputable company in a place like switzerland or germany i would trust them more than anthropic to hold up that promise.
- dd8601fn 4mo agoBad at business? One of them has to make the thing.
- MarsIronPI 4mo agoMaybe the making of the thing should be paid for before it's made, rather than hoping that selling copies will recoup the investment. I.e., go back to patronage while abolishing copyright.
- dd8601fn 4mo agoThis doesn’t support your previous theory.
- windexh8er 4mo agoThis type of "resource curse" paints a perfect picture of why US based frontier providers are set up to fail. They want, and have, few restrictions and along with that unlimited warchest. The Chinese on the other hand aren't burning billions like millions. Anthropic, OAI, Google, Meta... They're all phenomenal examples of waste, corporate greed, inefficiency and are the reasons people hate tech bros at this point. Whining and crying from their super yacht, Parkinson's law is alive and well!
- adjejmxbdjdn 4mo agoBootlegging is copyright theft. Is Claude output copyrighted? If anything, a tremendous amount of Claude’s input is copyrighted. If there’s any bootlegging going on it’s Anthropic that’s doing the bootlegging but having mirrored the video etc sufficiently to beat copyright law.
- gruez 4mo ago>Bootlegging is copyright theft. Ok, but what about those shady sites that resell Windows education keys? They're certainly a "better experience" than buying legit keys, by virtue of being significantly cheaper. You aren't even really committing copyright infringement in the process, because Microsoft gives out windows isos for free, and the seller is really selling a random 25 character string, which can hardly be copyrighted. >If there’s any bootlegging going on it’s Anthropic that’s doing the bootlegging but having mirrored the video etc sufficiently to beat copyright law. US courts have consistently ruled it's fair use.
- gowld 4mo agoand Chinese courts are ruling that using Claude is fair use.
- 8note 4mo agoamerican courts have ruled that theres no copyright at all on LLM outputs
- jrflowers 4mo ago> US courts have consistently ruled its fair use. Like Adam Smith wrote in The Wealth of Nations “‘Free market’ is when a company receives a favorable ruling about copyright in the United States”
- smegger001 4mo ago>>If there’s any bootlegging going on it’s Anthropic that’s doing the bootlegging but having mirrored the video etc sufficiently to beat copyright law. >US courts have consistently ruled it's fair use. And they also have ruled that the that output of an AI isn't copyrightable. As such copying claudes output isnt even fair use as that is an exemption to copyright but the same as copying public domain work which any and all are allowed to do.
- thot_experiment 4mo agoThis is also a good thing fwiw.
- bandrami 4mo agoThe output of Claude is not eligible for copyright protection. I'm not sure how the analogy of bootlegging DVDs would work, given that.
- vintermann 4mo agoI suppose you are violating the TOS by reselling a service, even if the output can't be claimed as belonging to anyone.
- dualvariable 4mo ago"Information wants to be free" Anthropic profited from training its models on all kinds of copyrighted information, live by the sword, die by the sword... Their model weights, training data, training methods, etc are all going to leak to China over time. Nobody on a site named _Hacker_ news should be all that upset about this.
- XorNot 4mo agoSeriously AI companies complaining about fair use is the biggest case of crocodile tears I can think of. Irony has been dead for a while, but they dug up the corpse and set it on fire anyway.
- digitaltrees 4mo agoTotally agree.
- toobulkeh 4mo agoYou’re mistaking the original term hacker, a tinkerer of systems, for the black hat variety.
- drekipus 4mo agoThere is no real difference
- usefulcat 4mo agoIt’s true that the meanings of words can change over time. Whether or not that’s a good thing is another question entirely.
- collingreen 4mo agoYes there is. Care to elaborate on your side or should we just leave it there?
- zem 4mo ago
- InvertedRhodium 4mo agoAnd those darned printing presses distributing works that were written prior to their existence.
- xdennis 4mo ago> Yeah, like all those Chinese bootleggers selling DVDs for a few dollars rather than $20. Free market! It's supremely ironic analogize distillation to copyright infringement when it's literally what Anthropic was found guilty of. It's not illegal to distill. It is illegal to pirate. And it's what Anthropic was found guilty of, not Alibaba. https://apnews.com/article/anthropic-authors-copyright-judge-artificial-intelligence-9643064e847a5e88ef6ee8b620b3a44c https://apnews.com/article/anthropic-authors-copyright-judge...
- SiempreViernes 4mo agoBigAI are all in the bootlegging market themselves, so it's always funny to see them complaining about others copying their "product".
- chews 4mo agoI bet you've downloaded a car.
- nmfisher 4mo agoMore like one bootlegger complaining that another bootlegger is copying their bootleg DVDs.
- fulafel 4mo agoFree market would of course allow bootleg DVD sales, state regulation that gives monopoly rights restrict it. In the context of LLMs, monopoly rights haven't been created (yet anyway). Fun fact: for a period the US (or american colonies) didn't have copyright but Europe did, so people could copy and sell English (and other) books for free.
- windexh8er 4mo agoExcept Anthropic didn't produce the movie. So it's more like one bootlegger sold the DVD for $20 and their competitors are undercutting them for $1. Who's the bigger thief here now? Capitalism as intended!