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Elastic isn't Open Source though, they abandoned Open Source. It seems to me like this is an example of non-Open Source whatever licensing causing job loss. O

Elastic isn't Open Source though, they abandoned Open Source. It seems to me like this is an example of non-Open Source whatever licensing causing job loss. Or just plain bad leadership.

echelon 3mo ago
They switched from open source when big tech stole their goodies. It was too late to stop it.
- limagnolia 3mo ago
  Big tech didn't steal anything. Elastic used open source software as the foundation of their product (specifically, Apache Lucene), and released their product as open source. The license allowed Elastic to do so, and likewise, the license Elastic used allowed "big tech" to use Elastics product. If it wasn't for open source, Elastic wouldn't exist. Then, Elastic whined about Amazon using Elastic under the open source license they used to build their product. They whined that Amazon wasn't contributing enough. So they switched the license to their product. So Amazon took over maintaining the open source software. Doing exactly what Elastic asked them to do. Sorry, but everything about Elastic, and especially this most recent announcement of layoffs, scream "bad leadership".
  - 23david 3mo ago
    Don’t be a shill for big tech over elastic in this fight. AWS was using elastic’s trademark and aggressive advertising to push their managed elasticsearch. They left elastic with no economically logical choice. MongoDB and countless others also made similar choices. AWS was super greedy and honestly I’m glad elastic even survived their aggressive tactics.
    - everfrustrated 3mo ago
      For the longest time, elastic didn't even have a cloud offering. And by the time they did it was far far too late. In the early days AWS elastic offering was very weak. It had lots of foot guns and operational problems. We tried hard to use an more native elastic offering and would have preferred it, but it didn't exist.
      - nijave 3mo ago
        The anti AWS rhetoric is exhausting. The fact AWS crappy hosted ES gained any market share is more a testament to how bad ES sales practices were than anything else. ES really missed the mark by not having a simple, self-serve sales model and instead going all in convoluted "contact a sales rep" enterprise model no one wanted to deal with.
        phil21 3mo ago
        ES Enterprise Sales for an on-prem license might have been the worst sales experience I ever was part of as a customer. We were already a very technically self-sufficient org just wanting to get under a support contract. They made it so impossible to give them money we simply gave up and went with the open source fork during all the Amazon kerfuffle. Dozen of hours of useless phone calls, and just nonsensical numbers coming out weeks or months later. Only to go back to the well and try again with a new team of reps after the first team inevitably churned out before any real progress was made.
        everfrustrated 3mo ago
        Yup. And I bet all that got reported internally within Elastic was how AWS was "undercutting them on deals".
- cowsandmilk 3mo ago
  It’s been five years since they changed their license. Today’s layoffs cannot be blamed on AWS and GCP. It’s been years and they have differentiated products now.
jedr 3mo ago
(Elastic employee here) Elastic is in fact open source again. - Was originally open source Apache license - Switched to non-open source Elastic license in Jan 2021 [^1] - Switched to open source AGPL license in Aug 2024 [^2] Not to defend the license change(s). [1] https://www.elastic.co/blog/licensing-change https://www.elastic.co/blog/licensing-change [2] https://www.elastic.co/blog/elasticsearch-is-open-source-again https://www.elastic.co/blog/elasticsearch-is-open-source-aga...
- echelon 3mo ago
  [flagged]
iso1631 3mo ago
It was. The idea behind free software was the software was free, but you'd sell the support -- installation help (floppies even) Elastic were on board with that, and it worked Until a larger incumbent decided to do their own support (fine), but then sell their service. Not even a price thing. Far easier for me to spend $50k a year with aws than $5k a year with elastic because we already have a relationship and framework with aws. They've switched to AGPL, which is a great license, they were just too late, they're the poster child of why AGPL is so important (whether it's another or not is another question)

Elastic isn't Open Source though, they abandoned Open Source. It seems to me like this is an example of non-Open Source whatever licensing causing job loss. Or just plain bad leadership.

echelon 3mo ago

They switched from open source when big tech stole their goodies. It was too late to stop it.

limagnolia 3mo ago
Big tech didn't steal anything. Elastic used open source software as the foundation of their product (specifically, Apache Lucene), and released their product as open source. The license allowed Elastic to do so, and likewise, the license Elastic used allowed "big tech" to use Elastics product. If it wasn't for open source, Elastic wouldn't exist. Then, Elastic whined about Amazon using Elastic under the open source license they used to build their product. They whined that Amazon wasn't contributing enough. So they switched the license to their product. So Amazon took over maintaining the open source software. Doing exactly what Elastic asked them to do. Sorry, but everything about Elastic, and especially this most recent announcement of layoffs, scream "bad leadership".
- 23david 3mo ago
  Don’t be a shill for big tech over elastic in this fight. AWS was using elastic’s trademark and aggressive advertising to push their managed elasticsearch. They left elastic with no economically logical choice. MongoDB and countless others also made similar choices. AWS was super greedy and honestly I’m glad elastic even survived their aggressive tactics.
  - everfrustrated 3mo ago
    For the longest time, elastic didn't even have a cloud offering. And by the time they did it was far far too late. In the early days AWS elastic offering was very weak. It had lots of foot guns and operational problems. We tried hard to use an more native elastic offering and would have preferred it, but it didn't exist.
    - nijave 3mo ago
      The anti AWS rhetoric is exhausting. The fact AWS crappy hosted ES gained any market share is more a testament to how bad ES sales practices were than anything else. ES really missed the mark by not having a simple, self-serve sales model and instead going all in convoluted "contact a sales rep" enterprise model no one wanted to deal with.
      - phil21 3mo ago
        ES Enterprise Sales for an on-prem license might have been the worst sales experience I ever was part of as a customer. We were already a very technically self-sufficient org just wanting to get under a support contract. They made it so impossible to give them money we simply gave up and went with the open source fork during all the Amazon kerfuffle. Dozen of hours of useless phone calls, and just nonsensical numbers coming out weeks or months later. Only to go back to the well and try again with a new team of reps after the first team inevitably churned out before any real progress was made.
        everfrustrated 3mo ago
        Yup. And I bet all that got reported internally within Elastic was how AWS was "undercutting them on deals".
cowsandmilk 3mo ago
It’s been five years since they changed their license. Today’s layoffs cannot be blamed on AWS and GCP. It’s been years and they have differentiated products now.

jedr 3mo ago

(Elastic employee here) Elastic is in fact open source again. - Was originally open source Apache license - Switched to non-open source Elastic license in Jan 2021 [^1] - Switched to open source AGPL license in Aug 2024 [^2] Not to defend the license change(s). [1] https://www.elastic.co/blog/licensing-change https://www.elastic.co/blog/licensing-change [2] https://www.elastic.co/blog/elasticsearch-is-open-source-again https://www.elastic.co/blog/elasticsearch-is-open-source-aga...

echelon 3mo ago
[flagged]

iso1631 3mo ago

It was. The idea behind free software was the software was free, but you'd sell the support -- installation help (floppies even) Elastic were on board with that, and it worked Until a larger incumbent decided to do their own support (fine), but then sell their service. Not even a price thing. Far easier for me to spend $50k a year with aws than $5k a year with elastic because we already have a relationship and framework with aws. They've switched to AGPL, which is a great license, they were just too late, they're the poster child of why AGPL is so important (whether it's another or not is another question)