6 ms·

How H-E-B became Texas' most beloved brand (2024)

139 points by NaOH 4mo ago

cute_boi 4mo ago
The best thing about HEB is they have lot of vegan items compared to other grocery store and they are lot cheaper and better than Walmart.
bell-cot 4mo ago
> Perhaps the real question isn’t: Why does H-E-B do so many nice things for the state? But: Why aren’t more companies like H-E-B? > ... in this company’s nearly 120-year history, it’s remained family-owned and operated. It has been more than a century since the American legal system told publicly-owned companies "Don't Be Good" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.
- larrydag 4mo ago
  Shareholder primacy is a drain on so many levels. Think of all the R&D that could have been spent instead of buying back shares.
  - lotsofpulp 4mo ago
    The share buybacks help offset these big companies’ RSUs for highly compensated employees. The share buybacks also allow shareholders to have a taxable event when they want to, not when the business wants them to. It would be crazy not to do share buybacks for a growing business.
- throw0101a 4mo ago
  > It has been more than a century since the American legal system told publicly-owned companies "Don't Be Good" The American legal system did no such thing in the Dodge ruling: as stated in the Wikipedia article itself, the 'pay shareholders' idea was in the obiter dictum (non-binding remark) portion. And as recently as Burwell v Hobby Lobby, the Supreme Court said: > While it is certainly true that a central objective of for-profit corporations is to make money, modern corporate law does not require for-profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else, and many do not do so. For-profit corporations, with ownership approval, support a wide variety of charitable causes, and it is not at all uncommon for such corporations to further humanitarian and other altruistic objectives. * http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/13-354.html http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/13-354.html * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burwell_v._Hobby_Lobby_Stores,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burwell_v._Hobby_Lobby_Stores,....
  - bell-cot 4mo ago
    Literally, you are kinda correct about Dodge. Practically, not so much. The court's judgement quite effectively ordered to Ford to abandon his rather pro-social plan, the keystone of which was dramatic corporate growth, in favor of giving his minority shareholders a big hunk of the money (needed for that plan) ASAP. The difference between that decision and "Don't be Good" is that if you have zero greedy shareholders, or are ready for a protracted and uncertain legal battle against them, then you might get away with being good. Otherwise - make sure any seeming good you do is some combination of de minimis and trivial to defend as a tactic to maximize shareholder profits. (Hobby Lobby is a decision about about closely-held and privately-held corporations, when they are claiming strong religious reasons for policies which a majority of the Supreme Count Justices have very obvious ideological reasons to favor. And also have both the motive and resources to spends years fighting through the Federal Court System. The relevance to 99.99% of the decisions made by corporations is very close to nill.)
    - throw0101a 4mo ago
      Dodge was in 1919, and shareholder primacy didn't really get going until the late-1970s or early-1980s: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine So there's several decades between the two where it wasn't really a thing. The late Lynn Stout (amongst others) has written extensively on this: > The Shareholder Value Myth: How Putting Shareholders First Harms Investors, Corporations, and the Public (Berrett Keohler Publications, 2012) challenges the ideology of shareholder value. Part I, “Debunking the Shareholder Value Myth,” traces the intellectual origins of shareholder-primacy thinking. It shows how the ideology of shareholder value maximization lacks any solid foundation in corporate law, corporate economics, or the empirical evidence. Contrary to what many believe, U.S. corporate law does not impose any enforceable legal duty on corporate directors or executives of public corporations to maximize profits or share price. The economic case for shareholder-value maximization similarly rests on incorrect factual claims about the structure of corporations, including the mistaken claims that shareholders “own” corporations, that they have the only residual claim on the firm’s profits, and that they are principals who hire and control directors to act as their agents. Finally, there is a notable lack of persuasive empirical evidence demonstrating that individual corporations run according to the principles of shareholder value maximization perform better over time than those that are not. Worse, when we look at macroeconomic data—overall investment returns, numbers of firms choosing to go or remain public, relative economic performance of “shareholder-friendly” jurisdictions—it suggests shareholder value dogma may be economically counterproductive. Part I concludes shareholder-value ideology is based on wishful thinking, not reality. As a theory of corporate purpose, it is poised for intellectual collapse. * https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2012/06/26/the-shareholder-value-myth https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2012/06/26/the-shareholder-v... Managerialism, which was the predominant theory before Friedman kind of took over, seemed to do relatively well: > The system was hardly perfect.11 But the proof of the pudding is thetasting. Judged by that standard, managerial capitalism seemed to generate good results. American corporations dominated the global economy, producing innovative products for their consumers, secure jobs for their employees, and corporate tax revenues for their government. And-especially notable-they produced outstanding investment results for public shareholders. Between 1933 and 1976 (a period that includes the infamous bear market of 1973-1974),12 shareholders who invested in the S&P 500 enjoyed inflation-adjusted compound average annual returns of 7.5%. 13This compares very favorably indeed with the sorts of returns shareholders have received more recently.14 * https://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2310&context=facpub https://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?arti... There have been multiple ideas about the purpose and responsibility of corporations and their management over the decades, all under the same legal regime. Further, even talking about "shareholders" brings up issues: what is meant by "shareholder"? The pension fund that wants steady dividend payments for 3 decades? The hedge fund that wants a meteoric rise in share prices in 3 years? The day trader that's trying to cash in on a meme in 3 days? There is no (single) Platonic "shareholder" that a company's directors can aim to be best at: there are a variety of people holding stock for different reasons. See concept of "shareholder heterogeneity". Was John Sculley doing the right thing by going for maximum profits and shares prices when he was CEO of Apple (and kicked Steve Jobs out)? How that'd work out for AAPL in the 1990s? How has focusing on financials gone for Boeing (since they bought out McDonnel–Douglas)? How did all the stuff that Jack Welch did at GE work out?
- cogman10 4mo ago
  > Why does H-E-B do so many nice things for the state? But: Why aren’t more companies like H-E-B? Regardless any sort of legal principle, the fact is capitalism rewards exploitation. The more a company exploits, the more profit it can bring in. Whether that be worker or customer. While it's not stated that way in business management courses, that's exactly how it's taught in a round about way. The entire business class is chasing after efficiency, how to do more with less. And their idols are the likes of Walmart who will shut down a store if anyone says "union" and who aggressively negotiates for tax breaks in every location where their stores go up. But further, venture capitalists have learned that one of the most effective ways to extract capital is to purchase well respected brands and destroy their quality while sucking off every last bit of value before customers wise up to the impending death of a beloved brand (see Sears, KMart, and basically all of fast food at this point. Also, be prepared to see this in your vet, dentist, and retirement homes). People make millions doing these awful things which is why they keep happening. It's simply a lot harder and less profitable to make a "good" company which makes good products and respects their customers. And if H-E-B ever sells to a 3rd party, exactly the same thing will happen to them in a heartbeat.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4mo ago
    > The more a company exploits, the more profit it can bring in. In the short run, that doesn't seem worth arguing with. It isn't clear whether or not it is really true in the long run. If shareholders (and courts) demanded the long view, it's equally unclear if the exploitation approach could really have taken hold.
    - cogman10 4mo ago
      In the long run for who is the question. It's worked great for walmart for several decades now. And the venture capitalists continue to use the plunder from prior pillaging to continue the exploit train. And further when a company achieves monopoly or near monopoly status, it becomes nearly impossible for a competitor to knock them off their perch. The unfortunate thing is for the people engaged in exploitation this is a great long term strategy. A CEO that does this can almost always land another job as a CEO for another company to rinse and repeat the process. See Mark Hurd.
- chomp 4mo ago
  I don’t think that ruling distills down that far. But I will grant you that if you’re leaving enough obvious money on the table, activist investors will come knocking.
- infecto 4mo ago
  There are plenty of crappy family owned business that pay too little and expect too much. I don’t know if this is a public vs private company issue.
  - bell-cot 4mo ago
    True. Family-owned is "allowed to be good". Not "motivated". And bluntly put, the vast majority of businesses are running on thin margins - they couldn't pay well for reasonable work if they wanted to.
    - infecto 4mo ago
      I would even go as far to argue that there are far more worse companies employee benefits wise in private companies than public. Public companies kind of like markets solve a really hard problem. It’s probably not always the optimal solution but hopefully gets there over the horizon.
MeetingsBrowser 4mo ago
The biggest difference I’ve noticed is HEB has plenty of employees who don’t seem depressed to be there. When I’ve been to HEB I see plenty of cashier lanes open, each with a cashier and bagger, people stocking aisles, a team behind the butcher and bakery counters, etc. By comparison, Kroger seems to try and have a skeleton crew at all times. Usually a single cashier, a self checkout supervisor, and a couple of people frantically stocking. The Kroger employees look over worked and clearly unhappy to be there. The HEB employees seem generally happy and are usually in groups chatting with coworkers and customers while they work. Shopping at Kroger feels almost dystopian relative to HEB.
- CommieBobDole 4mo ago
  I've experienced the same thing except sed 's/HEB/Publix/g' This is probably just a 'Kroger vs nice supermarket' thing.
  - MeetingsBrowser 4mo ago
    Kroger is one example. Most other stores in Texas had the same depressed skeleton crew feel, except for higher end options that cost 3x normal groceries. Same thing for Bucee’s compared to normal gas stations. Bucee’s popularity exploded by asking “what if we paid someone to clean the bathrooms at a gas station” and following the logical chain of thought from there. People like spending money at businesses that aren’t depressing or gross to be in.
    - rottencupcakes 4mo ago
      Buc-ee’s ain’t cheap. But people pay it.
      - evilduck 4mo ago
        Their gas is priced competitively. Everything is hard to compare because it's usually not even available aty other gas stations. It's like half of a Bass Pro Shops tacked on to a bizarre bbq restaurant that lacks seating. Comparing it to 7-11 or a Sinclair or Conoco gas station makes little sense. It's closer to a Love's Travel Center, and in which case their pricing holds up.
BobbyTables2 4mo ago
Sigh… They’ll never be able to compete with Kroger’s wide selection of extremely expired food. (/s)
doctorspazz 4mo ago
HEB does a lot of great in house foods too. I don’t regret leaving Texas, but I really miss the fresh tortillas and tamales from HEB sometimes.
- krapp 4mo ago
  The HEB across the street from me took down their kitchen and installed a pizza oven and now they just sell pizzas. They're good pizzas but I do miss the Tex-Mex. They still have an "Asian" market too but it's far too expensive for what it is, mostly sushi with various kind of goop drizzled on top.
Arubis 4mo ago
I lived in Dallas for about four years. There’s not a lot I miss, but I sure do miss Central Market (an HEB brand).
asciimov 4mo ago
My dad worked for HEB for 35 years. He never planned to stay there when he started in the late eighties, but they had better hours than his prior work as a photojournalist and treated him a whole lot better. HEB believes that if you treat your employees right, that they will in turn treat their customers well. As someone that has spent years living away from HEB they are just a great store to have access to. Better prices, store brands that are often better than national, and they usually have a good produce selection. When we moved to the San Antonio area a decade ago, having access to HEB again was one of the most exciting parts of the move.
- steve-atx-7600 4mo ago
  Same here. After 7 years out of state, I moved back to TX and was at HEB almost every day to marvel at the selection of products and ready to eat foods (was also single).
  - niwtsol 4mo ago
    I haven’t lived in Texas for about 10 years now, anytime my mom comes to visit and she asks “can I bring you anything?” - I always ask her to bring me a couple packages of HEB tortillas. The multiple mentions of the tortillas in this story has me salivating.
    - DANmode 4mo ago
      For those that don’t understand: they make them in-house, or more specifically, on-site - not centralized.
      - rstupek 4mo ago
        There’s nothing like a fresh made batch, still warm
- cellular 4mo ago
  Does he remember HEB camp?
vajrabum 4mo ago
I go to Texas to visit family and a visit or two to H-E-B is usually a part of that. They operate great stores, they treat their employees well (several family members have worked there) and they have great products. I love my local grocery store where I shop but H-E-B is pretty much next level.
lysace 4mo ago
I kind of enjoy grocery store/chain discussions on e.g. national subreddits because it's a way of engaging people normally not into economics, corporate structures and incentives and getting them to actually think about the topics. Sweden: The dominant one is called ICA. Shared brand and supply chain. Stores are locally owned, typically 1, maybe 2 stores per owner. Store owners own a share of the centralized aspects. Customers generally prefer it, except for those on the (quite) left. It often becomes a political charged debate topic on a national level. People do seem to at least eventually understand that local ownership is good since it translates into caring. The charges from the left: a) Possibly valid: They have gotten too good/dominant, b) Just stupid: "They are ripping people off with their 2% profit margins".
RhysU 4mo ago
I want someone to start a monthly subscription service that mails HEB tortillas within the continental US using UT Austin students as the smurfs. The ad copy writes itself.
- owlninja 4mo ago
  I'll avoid going during super busy times (which is always) but if the meal calls for tortillas I am going to HEB.
- steve-atx-7600 4mo ago
  The difference is that cook them in something cast iron pan like with lard the way my grandmother did. In her case, big ass can of crisco. I bet a lot of people would be turned off if they realized that, but there ain’t no way around it for the taste.
- gamblor956 4mo ago
  HEB tortillas are good for a store brand but you can get better tortillas at any half decent Mexican mom and pop store in SoCal.
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doodlebugging 4mo ago
The Butts are some good people. When I was a kid in Central Texas my family shopped at their stores. It was a real drag to move to a part of Texas outside their operating range and spend so many years there so their recent expansion across the state is the one welcome thing about Texas. HEB and their upscale Central Market are the only grocery stores that we visit. We do drop by World Market occasionally for oddball things but if we don't grow it and HEB/CM doesn't sell it we probably aren't eating it. I think one of the best things about the new HEBs is the attached BBQ store. Dependably good BBQ options with a Central Texas BBQ flavor that beat all of the fast food options locally. We have a wide selection of fast foods since this region is in a massive growth stage absorbing all the FtW refugees. HEB BBQ and the other fresh meals available inside that take little or no prep are dependable, flavorful, options for quick meals and picnics. Locally we have Walmart, Target, Albertsons, Brookshires, Winn Dixie(?), Aldi, and maybe a couple other smaller ones including some Dollar (G/T) stores for groceries. Walmart is the only one that offers similar options but the quality of their fresh stuff can't measure up. Albertsons was the go-to for years if we had to swing into town for groceries and didn't feel like adding the extra commute to FtW Central Market. We stopped going there after we took a rafting trip down the Salmon in Idaho and rounded a curve in the river and found a large vacation home built right up on the bank complete with a concrete boat ramp. The river guide told us the house was a vacation home owned by the Albertsons grocery store family and that it was vacant most of the year. The concrete ramp is not allowed on any stretch of the river since it is in a Wild and Scenic area but it was built anyway because the sanction for building the ramp was a simple annual fine, easily affordable for billionaire grocers. We had rafted that river several times over the years and the encroachment of second homes and vacation homes on all the high spots up there really degrades the wilderness feel. I'm not going too far down that trail today since that is too far OT. If you're in Texas, HEB is the grocery store. The others suck balls.
- jmalicki 4mo ago
  > I think one of the best things about the new HEBs is the attached BBQ store. Not a Texan, just visited occasionally. This sentence more than anything has just made me want to become a Texan. I did not know this was a thing, but that sounds amazing.
steve-atx-7600 4mo ago
As soon as Covid was viewed as a serious threat in the US, they immediately put up plexiglass barriers to protect their cashiers. Immediately and not just half assed barriers. They did as good of a job as I would have done if I were the cashier. Then they transformed their stores to have more warehouse space and ran a free curbside pickup service. All of this and they are still the best grocery store in TX if you care about prices and wide selection of products. The history of HEB is something I want to learn about. I know from reading Robert Caros LBJ volumes that Howard Butt was funneling a lot of money to LBJ staring in the 30s or 40s. Not to judge that, I’m just curious how they dominated Texas.
- Taniwha 4mo ago
  Viruses do not "fester" on flat surfaces, if they fester in anything it is cells
  - cwillu 4mo ago
    I think you replied to the wrong comment.
- chrisco255 4mo ago
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  - steve-atx-7600 4mo ago
    I’m not following. The barrier separated the cashiers who were mandated to wear masks from the customers who were asked to wear masks (asked vs absolutely forced after violent protests by angry “freedom loving” customers). It was essentially like a giant plastic face mask that medical staff were wearing at the time in addition to masks. I’d sure like it to be present in the same way I wouldn’t eat at a buffet without a sneeze guard. You’d fault the company for spending time and money building those out for their cashiers? Keeping the store open - while asking everyone to social distance and wear masks - kept people employed and allowed mothers that needed to stop by a store to pickup something when they may not have another option to do so.
drivingmenuts 4mo ago
Randy Feltface (Australian puppet comedian) was absolutely blown away by HEB when he came to Texas. Apparently, they have nothing like that in Australia. Two constants in Texas: HEB and Waffle House.
FastRodent 4mo ago
Yes they treat us very well. I had a coworker who suffered from addiction and every few weeks they reached out to see if they were okay. This went on for two years until they quit. Literally if you are willing to work they will hire you. Alot of my family and friends have started their careers here and they love it. Unsurprisingly the way they treat employees also means that the talent pool in corporate is excellent. Employees are very invested in the company's future. I could go on but yes they are good.
cityofdelusion 4mo ago
HEB operates a similar model to Costco in being more expensive to the customer in a subtle way, through desirability. Their products are so interesting and appetizing that I go in with the intention of buying $30 of groceries and leave with a $100 load. Many of these products end up as local memes (tortillas, brisket queso, green sauce) they are so desirable. Wal-Mart is the opposite. I go in to buy groceries and am always astonished to have my trip be like for $27 or something. I usually shop from the outside of the grocery (raw produce) and they are just dirt cheap. HEB operates a series of upscale Central Market stores that are even more lopsided in price and even more interesting in selection.
- horns4lyfe 4mo ago
  Ya, central market was the only store close to me for a while and it crushed my budget, but was very worth it
- yurishimo 4mo ago
  Fun fact but Central Market actually operates on the same margins as HEB. Their produce in particular is competitively priced. Where they get you however, is that all of their produce is jumbo sized. So yea, you have a competitive price on the apples per pound, but if you want 6 apples, they are on average going to be more than from HEB or a different supermarket. Subtle, but it allows them to make some fun marketing claims!
- skeeter2020 4mo ago
  In Canada WalMart super centers (the ones with groceries) are low quality and have prices as high as (or higher) than other stores. Everything is prepackaged and shipped to the store so meat, dairy and bakery is the worst in town.
  - BigGreenJorts 4mo ago
    Yeah grocery at Walmart is ONLY for shelf stables and some frozens (even that is rare with their freezer operating practices) for me bc the quality of the "outside" is so poor.
- 4mo ago
1659447091 4mo ago
There are lots feel-good things to say about how HEB runs its business and what it does for the communities and local areas they are in. Not to mention their "generic" store branded foods are usually healthier and made with simple ingredients. And locally sourced. But this story[0] is the one that I think sums up the love people have for HEB pretty well. During the 2021 "Great Texas Freeze" [1] (where 4+million homes went without power for days, 10+million without safe drinking water and 200+ died); basically during a rush to stock up on food, the power went out at an HEB and they couldnt check anyone out, but instead of telling everyone to leave their carts and exit to go home without food, they let them all to walk out with whatever they had in their carts. It's unfortunate that more big businesses don't even try to be a net positive the way HEB does. (some seem to be actively hostile to the idea) [0] https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/09/us/texas-storm-recovery-heb-grocery-store-donations-cnnheroes https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/09/us/texas-storm-recovery-heb-g... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis
- dundarious 4mo ago
  This is the centerpiece of TFA: > When it was their turn at the register, the Hennessys started loading their groceries on the conveyor belt but were told to put the groceries back in the cart. The woman at the register asked if they had alcohol. They didn’t. Then she waved them toward the exits. > “Go home and be safe,” she said.
- userbinator 4mo ago
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bdcravens 4mo ago
My wife was actually working at HEB when we met, so I can definitely say I've found some great options there. :-) Seriously though, I prefer many things there: recycled toilet paper/paper towels, pet food (their quality line, not the cheap stuff), and even their to-go sushi are all among my favorites in those categories. For beer drinkers, they actually have an impressive craft selection.
SwellJoe 4mo ago
My mom moved out of Texas about 20 years ago, and still sometimes talks fondly about HEB. I'm currently in Dallas, and annoyingly there is no HEB within a reasonable distance, though they have finally started opening stores in the DFW metro area. Just none in central Dallas, yet. They do just about everything right. Their lower bound on quality for stuff like produce is higher than most stores, their store brands are usually higher quality than the big brands (real sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup, fewer unpronounceable ingredients, etc., and often simply taste better). Their employees seem more invested in it being a good shopping experience, and I hope that means they're treated well. Anyway, it's earned loyalty. It's not just a "well, it's been here for a long time and it's what I'm used to".
- fastball 4mo ago
  They might not have as many HEBs in DFW, but that is where Central Market is head-quartered!
  - SwellJoe 4mo ago
    The Dallas Central Market is a 35 minute bike ride away. Too far. And, besides, it's not HEB. It's fine, but there's a Whole Foods 27 minutes away if I want the fancy groceries, though that's also too far for a regular grocery run.
    - Conscat 4mo ago
      As much as I loved growing up with HEB, my fondest memories are of eating Central Market squid salad and brie in its playground/music venue backyard.
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- SOLAR_FIELDS 4mo ago
  The way HEB wins the hearts and souls of every Texan is via the tortilla machine. No other major grocery chain stocks fresh, daily made tortillas and instead offers premade "tortillas"
collabs 4mo ago
I lived closer to WinCo in DFW area and could walk to a grocery store to buy bread or some random grocery item. It was really nice. I don't think Europeans will ever understand how much of a flex it is to be able to walk to a grocery store in Texas.
- CharlesW 4mo ago
  To be fair, it's difficult for a European to walk to a grocery store in Texas.
- DANmode 4mo ago
  I don’t think Europeans want to understand why most of us are okay with a massive struggle to get food and basics, instead of them being on every corner.
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- jubilanti 4mo ago
  I don't think you realize how boringly normal it is in Europe for people to never have a car and take public transit to the hypermarket, the same Cathedral of Consumerist Capitalism with a combined supermarket, shopping mall, movie theater, often a stadium for concerts and sports... And you can go with a granny hand cart multiple times a week because it's just a few stops on public transit, where it is also often a hub. La Defense and Forum des Halles in Paris, Stratford City in London, Mall of Tripla in Helsinki, Vasco de Gama in Lisbon
  - ahartmetz 4mo ago
    I've lived in three different places in Berlin and never took public transit for grocery shopping. It would be pointless because the shops are in walking distance, just a few hundred meters away. Hypermarkets (which are rare, though I guess you could call Kaufland a mini-hypermarket) or more specialized stores are for less daily needs.
  - 4mo ago
poffdeluxe 4mo ago
Fiance and I moved from Austin to the Bay Area about two years ago. The thing we miss the most? Probably HEB.
jollymonATX 4mo ago
This store is highly over-rated.
CSMastermind 4mo ago
I have a weird affection for good georcery chains. Wegmans, HEB, Giant Eagle, to a limited extent Publix. It's so odd to me that there are areas of the country with nothing like them. It really seems like you just need one good family who decides that they're going to care about how they're set up and make an effort to build a company with the right values.
- actionfromafar 4mo ago
  Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48477135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48477135
- aidenn0 4mo ago
  Grocery stores got bad in most of the country the way a lot of things did, through illegal M&A.
  - CSMastermind 4mo ago
    They used to have HEB, Wegmans, etc quality stores in Seattle before some merger? What were they? Why did this M&A seemingly not happen in Texas, New York, Florida, Pennsylvania, and Ohio?
    - aidenn0 4mo ago
      I've never lived in Seattle, but I know that Haggen was a casualty of The Safeway/Albertson's merger[1]; I can't speak to their quality. Safeway and Albertsons had already bought up many grocery stores prior to that merger. When I was a kid, we knew which grocer had the best butcher and which had the best baker, and neither were chain stores. 1: Granted Haggen isn't entirely innocent here; they saw a potential growth opportunity and over-leveraged.
JoshGlazebrook 4mo ago
HEB is still a lot better than the national chains, but HEB has also started cutting costs in various areas. Their tortilla chips are no longer made in store, the bakery is essentially just frozen dough that comes in and is baked. Their cakes have historically been dense and dry. A lot of the time when they come out with their store brand product, they will just drop the name brand now, and in some cases it's clearly a downgrade. So while I still admire HEB and choose it over anything else, it's on its way down in terms of quality and value. Haven't been to Central Market (their high end brand) in a while, but it's night and day compared to HEB.
bob1029 4mo ago
I shop at a combination of HEB and Kroger. I go to HEB when I want their corn tortillas and good customer service. I go to Kroger for everything else. HEB is a fantastically ran store, but the quality of many of the goods tends to suffer relative to competition. Things like chicken broth that isn't fake can only be found at the gigantic, brand-new HEB 30 miles away (or at any Kroger). The local HEB built a decade ago seems to be somewhat forgotten by corporate.
tristor 4mo ago
Every time I move away from Texas, it's not the BBQ or any of the other things that might come to mind I miss, it's HEB. There's no other grocery store like it. HEB legitimately has everything I need and more, even in the normal stores, and when I want something really special its available through Central Market or an HEB Plus. The way they treat their employees and exist in the community far exceeds the expectations most people have of a grocery chain. I'll never forget that they were one of the first on site after the recent flooding in South Texas to feed first responders and employees paid to volunteer in the search party, they provided food at no cost when their stores lost power to thousands of households during Snowpocalypse and worked tirelessly to restock and restore power via generator to ensure folks could get what they needed even as the city went dark, and during Katrina they set up mobile kitchens and kept them stocked to feed emergency workers and storm refugees throughout the Houston metro area, as well as many many many other examples of them stepping up when our own state government has failed us. As someone who's lived in Texas off an on for more than two decades and lives here now, I would trust HEB ten times before I'd trust anyone in the state government here.
sfifs 4mo ago
It's quite interesting what incentives and culture being a privately held company creates.

139 points by NaOH 4mo ago

The best thing about HEB is they have lot of vegan items compared to other grocery store and they are lot cheaper and better than Walmart.

bell-cot 4mo ago

> Perhaps the real question isn’t: Why does H-E-B do so many nice things for the state? But: Why aren’t more companies like H-E-B? > ... in this company’s nearly 120-year history, it’s remained family-owned and operated. It has been more than a century since the American legal system told publicly-owned companies "Don't Be Good" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_v._Ford_Motor_Co.

larrydag 4mo ago
Shareholder primacy is a drain on so many levels. Think of all the R&D that could have been spent instead of buying back shares.
- lotsofpulp 4mo ago
  The share buybacks help offset these big companies’ RSUs for highly compensated employees. The share buybacks also allow shareholders to have a taxable event when they want to, not when the business wants them to. It would be crazy not to do share buybacks for a growing business.
throw0101a 4mo ago
> It has been more than a century since the American legal system told publicly-owned companies "Don't Be Good" The American legal system did no such thing in the Dodge ruling: as stated in the Wikipedia article itself, the 'pay shareholders' idea was in the obiter dictum (non-binding remark) portion. And as recently as Burwell v Hobby Lobby, the Supreme Court said: > While it is certainly true that a central objective of for-profit corporations is to make money, modern corporate law does not require for-profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else, and many do not do so. For-profit corporations, with ownership approval, support a wide variety of charitable causes, and it is not at all uncommon for such corporations to further humanitarian and other altruistic objectives. * http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/13-354.html http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/13-354.html * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burwell_v._Hobby_Lobby_Stores,_Inc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burwell_v._Hobby_Lobby_Stores,....
- bell-cot 4mo ago
  Literally, you are kinda correct about Dodge. Practically, not so much. The court's judgement quite effectively ordered to Ford to abandon his rather pro-social plan, the keystone of which was dramatic corporate growth, in favor of giving his minority shareholders a big hunk of the money (needed for that plan) ASAP. The difference between that decision and "Don't be Good" is that if you have zero greedy shareholders, or are ready for a protracted and uncertain legal battle against them, then you might get away with being good. Otherwise - make sure any seeming good you do is some combination of de minimis and trivial to defend as a tactic to maximize shareholder profits. (Hobby Lobby is a decision about about closely-held and privately-held corporations, when they are claiming strong religious reasons for policies which a majority of the Supreme Count Justices have very obvious ideological reasons to favor. And also have both the motive and resources to spends years fighting through the Federal Court System. The relevance to 99.99% of the decisions made by corporations is very close to nill.)
  - throw0101a 4mo ago
    Dodge was in 1919, and shareholder primacy didn't really get going until the late-1970s or early-1980s: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedman_doctrine So there's several decades between the two where it wasn't really a thing. The late Lynn Stout (amongst others) has written extensively on this: > The Shareholder Value Myth: How Putting Shareholders First Harms Investors, Corporations, and the Public (Berrett Keohler Publications, 2012) challenges the ideology of shareholder value. Part I, “Debunking the Shareholder Value Myth,” traces the intellectual origins of shareholder-primacy thinking. It shows how the ideology of shareholder value maximization lacks any solid foundation in corporate law, corporate economics, or the empirical evidence. Contrary to what many believe, U.S. corporate law does not impose any enforceable legal duty on corporate directors or executives of public corporations to maximize profits or share price. The economic case for shareholder-value maximization similarly rests on incorrect factual claims about the structure of corporations, including the mistaken claims that shareholders “own” corporations, that they have the only residual claim on the firm’s profits, and that they are principals who hire and control directors to act as their agents. Finally, there is a notable lack of persuasive empirical evidence demonstrating that individual corporations run according to the principles of shareholder value maximization perform better over time than those that are not. Worse, when we look at macroeconomic data—overall investment returns, numbers of firms choosing to go or remain public, relative economic performance of “shareholder-friendly” jurisdictions—it suggests shareholder value dogma may be economically counterproductive. Part I concludes shareholder-value ideology is based on wishful thinking, not reality. As a theory of corporate purpose, it is poised for intellectual collapse. * https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2012/06/26/the-shareholder-value-myth https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2012/06/26/the-shareholder-v... Managerialism, which was the predominant theory before Friedman kind of took over, seemed to do relatively well: > The system was hardly perfect.11 But the proof of the pudding is thetasting. Judged by that standard, managerial capitalism seemed to generate good results. American corporations dominated the global economy, producing innovative products for their consumers, secure jobs for their employees, and corporate tax revenues for their government. And-especially notable-they produced outstanding investment results for public shareholders. Between 1933 and 1976 (a period that includes the infamous bear market of 1973-1974),12 shareholders who invested in the S&P 500 enjoyed inflation-adjusted compound average annual returns of 7.5%. 13This compares very favorably indeed with the sorts of returns shareholders have received more recently.14 * https://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2310&context=facpub https://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?arti... There have been multiple ideas about the purpose and responsibility of corporations and their management over the decades, all under the same legal regime. Further, even talking about "shareholders" brings up issues: what is meant by "shareholder"? The pension fund that wants steady dividend payments for 3 decades? The hedge fund that wants a meteoric rise in share prices in 3 years? The day trader that's trying to cash in on a meme in 3 days? There is no (single) Platonic "shareholder" that a company's directors can aim to be best at: there are a variety of people holding stock for different reasons. See concept of "shareholder heterogeneity". Was John Sculley doing the right thing by going for maximum profits and shares prices when he was CEO of Apple (and kicked Steve Jobs out)? How that'd work out for AAPL in the 1990s? How has focusing on financials gone for Boeing (since they bought out McDonnel–Douglas)? How did all the stuff that Jack Welch did at GE work out?
cogman10 4mo ago
> Why does H-E-B do so many nice things for the state? But: Why aren’t more companies like H-E-B? Regardless any sort of legal principle, the fact is capitalism rewards exploitation. The more a company exploits, the more profit it can bring in. Whether that be worker or customer. While it's not stated that way in business management courses, that's exactly how it's taught in a round about way. The entire business class is chasing after efficiency, how to do more with less. And their idols are the likes of Walmart who will shut down a store if anyone says "union" and who aggressively negotiates for tax breaks in every location where their stores go up. But further, venture capitalists have learned that one of the most effective ways to extract capital is to purchase well respected brands and destroy their quality while sucking off every last bit of value before customers wise up to the impending death of a beloved brand (see Sears, KMart, and basically all of fast food at this point. Also, be prepared to see this in your vet, dentist, and retirement homes). People make millions doing these awful things which is why they keep happening. It's simply a lot harder and less profitable to make a "good" company which makes good products and respects their customers. And if H-E-B ever sells to a 3rd party, exactly the same thing will happen to them in a heartbeat.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4mo ago
  > The more a company exploits, the more profit it can bring in. In the short run, that doesn't seem worth arguing with. It isn't clear whether or not it is really true in the long run. If shareholders (and courts) demanded the long view, it's equally unclear if the exploitation approach could really have taken hold.
  - cogman10 4mo ago
    In the long run for who is the question. It's worked great for walmart for several decades now. And the venture capitalists continue to use the plunder from prior pillaging to continue the exploit train. And further when a company achieves monopoly or near monopoly status, it becomes nearly impossible for a competitor to knock them off their perch. The unfortunate thing is for the people engaged in exploitation this is a great long term strategy. A CEO that does this can almost always land another job as a CEO for another company to rinse and repeat the process. See Mark Hurd.
chomp 4mo ago
I don’t think that ruling distills down that far. But I will grant you that if you’re leaving enough obvious money on the table, activist investors will come knocking.
infecto 4mo ago
There are plenty of crappy family owned business that pay too little and expect too much. I don’t know if this is a public vs private company issue.
- bell-cot 4mo ago
  True. Family-owned is "allowed to be good". Not "motivated". And bluntly put, the vast majority of businesses are running on thin margins - they couldn't pay well for reasonable work if they wanted to.
  - infecto 4mo ago
    I would even go as far to argue that there are far more worse companies employee benefits wise in private companies than public. Public companies kind of like markets solve a really hard problem. It’s probably not always the optimal solution but hopefully gets there over the horizon.

MeetingsBrowser 4mo ago

The biggest difference I’ve noticed is HEB has plenty of employees who don’t seem depressed to be there. When I’ve been to HEB I see plenty of cashier lanes open, each with a cashier and bagger, people stocking aisles, a team behind the butcher and bakery counters, etc. By comparison, Kroger seems to try and have a skeleton crew at all times. Usually a single cashier, a self checkout supervisor, and a couple of people frantically stocking. The Kroger employees look over worked and clearly unhappy to be there. The HEB employees seem generally happy and are usually in groups chatting with coworkers and customers while they work. Shopping at Kroger feels almost dystopian relative to HEB.

CommieBobDole 4mo ago
I've experienced the same thing except sed 's/HEB/Publix/g' This is probably just a 'Kroger vs nice supermarket' thing.
- MeetingsBrowser 4mo ago
  Kroger is one example. Most other stores in Texas had the same depressed skeleton crew feel, except for higher end options that cost 3x normal groceries. Same thing for Bucee’s compared to normal gas stations. Bucee’s popularity exploded by asking “what if we paid someone to clean the bathrooms at a gas station” and following the logical chain of thought from there. People like spending money at businesses that aren’t depressing or gross to be in.
  - rottencupcakes 4mo ago
    Buc-ee’s ain’t cheap. But people pay it.
    - evilduck 4mo ago
      Their gas is priced competitively. Everything is hard to compare because it's usually not even available aty other gas stations. It's like half of a Bass Pro Shops tacked on to a bizarre bbq restaurant that lacks seating. Comparing it to 7-11 or a Sinclair or Conoco gas station makes little sense. It's closer to a Love's Travel Center, and in which case their pricing holds up.

BobbyTables2 4mo ago

Sigh… They’ll never be able to compete with Kroger’s wide selection of extremely expired food. (/s)

doctorspazz 4mo ago

HEB does a lot of great in house foods too. I don’t regret leaving Texas, but I really miss the fresh tortillas and tamales from HEB sometimes.

krapp 4mo ago
The HEB across the street from me took down their kitchen and installed a pizza oven and now they just sell pizzas. They're good pizzas but I do miss the Tex-Mex. They still have an "Asian" market too but it's far too expensive for what it is, mostly sushi with various kind of goop drizzled on top.

Arubis 4mo ago

I lived in Dallas for about four years. There’s not a lot I miss, but I sure do miss Central Market (an HEB brand).

asciimov 4mo ago

My dad worked for HEB for 35 years. He never planned to stay there when he started in the late eighties, but they had better hours than his prior work as a photojournalist and treated him a whole lot better. HEB believes that if you treat your employees right, that they will in turn treat their customers well. As someone that has spent years living away from HEB they are just a great store to have access to. Better prices, store brands that are often better than national, and they usually have a good produce selection. When we moved to the San Antonio area a decade ago, having access to HEB again was one of the most exciting parts of the move.

steve-atx-7600 4mo ago
Same here. After 7 years out of state, I moved back to TX and was at HEB almost every day to marvel at the selection of products and ready to eat foods (was also single).
- niwtsol 4mo ago
  I haven’t lived in Texas for about 10 years now, anytime my mom comes to visit and she asks “can I bring you anything?” - I always ask her to bring me a couple packages of HEB tortillas. The multiple mentions of the tortillas in this story has me salivating.
  - DANmode 4mo ago
    For those that don’t understand: they make them in-house, or more specifically, on-site - not centralized.
    - rstupek 4mo ago
      There’s nothing like a fresh made batch, still warm
cellular 4mo ago
Does he remember HEB camp?

vajrabum 4mo ago

I go to Texas to visit family and a visit or two to H-E-B is usually a part of that. They operate great stores, they treat their employees well (several family members have worked there) and they have great products. I love my local grocery store where I shop but H-E-B is pretty much next level.

lysace 4mo ago

I kind of enjoy grocery store/chain discussions on e.g. national subreddits because it's a way of engaging people normally not into economics, corporate structures and incentives and getting them to actually think about the topics. Sweden: The dominant one is called ICA. Shared brand and supply chain. Stores are locally owned, typically 1, maybe 2 stores per owner. Store owners own a share of the centralized aspects. Customers generally prefer it, except for those on the (quite) left. It often becomes a political charged debate topic on a national level. People do seem to at least eventually understand that local ownership is good since it translates into caring. The charges from the left: a) Possibly valid: They have gotten too good/dominant, b) Just stupid: "They are ripping people off with their 2% profit margins".

RhysU 4mo ago

I want someone to start a monthly subscription service that mails HEB tortillas within the continental US using UT Austin students as the smurfs. The ad copy writes itself.

owlninja 4mo ago
I'll avoid going during super busy times (which is always) but if the meal calls for tortillas I am going to HEB.
steve-atx-7600 4mo ago
The difference is that cook them in something cast iron pan like with lard the way my grandmother did. In her case, big ass can of crisco. I bet a lot of people would be turned off if they realized that, but there ain’t no way around it for the taste.
gamblor956 4mo ago
HEB tortillas are good for a store brand but you can get better tortillas at any half decent Mexican mom and pop store in SoCal.
- deleted 4mo ago
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doodlebugging 4mo ago

The Butts are some good people. When I was a kid in Central Texas my family shopped at their stores. It was a real drag to move to a part of Texas outside their operating range and spend so many years there so their recent expansion across the state is the one welcome thing about Texas. HEB and their upscale Central Market are the only grocery stores that we visit. We do drop by World Market occasionally for oddball things but if we don't grow it and HEB/CM doesn't sell it we probably aren't eating it. I think one of the best things about the new HEBs is the attached BBQ store. Dependably good BBQ options with a Central Texas BBQ flavor that beat all of the fast food options locally. We have a wide selection of fast foods since this region is in a massive growth stage absorbing all the FtW refugees. HEB BBQ and the other fresh meals available inside that take little or no prep are dependable, flavorful, options for quick meals and picnics. Locally we have Walmart, Target, Albertsons, Brookshires, Winn Dixie(?), Aldi, and maybe a couple other smaller ones including some Dollar (G/T) stores for groceries. Walmart is the only one that offers similar options but the quality of their fresh stuff can't measure up. Albertsons was the go-to for years if we had to swing into town for groceries and didn't feel like adding the extra commute to FtW Central Market. We stopped going there after we took a rafting trip down the Salmon in Idaho and rounded a curve in the river and found a large vacation home built right up on the bank complete with a concrete boat ramp. The river guide told us the house was a vacation home owned by the Albertsons grocery store family and that it was vacant most of the year. The concrete ramp is not allowed on any stretch of the river since it is in a Wild and Scenic area but it was built anyway because the sanction for building the ramp was a simple annual fine, easily affordable for billionaire grocers. We had rafted that river several times over the years and the encroachment of second homes and vacation homes on all the high spots up there really degrades the wilderness feel. I'm not going too far down that trail today since that is too far OT. If you're in Texas, HEB is the grocery store. The others suck balls.

jmalicki 4mo ago
> I think one of the best things about the new HEBs is the attached BBQ store. Not a Texan, just visited occasionally. This sentence more than anything has just made me want to become a Texan. I did not know this was a thing, but that sounds amazing.

steve-atx-7600 4mo ago

As soon as Covid was viewed as a serious threat in the US, they immediately put up plexiglass barriers to protect their cashiers. Immediately and not just half assed barriers. They did as good of a job as I would have done if I were the cashier. Then they transformed their stores to have more warehouse space and ran a free curbside pickup service. All of this and they are still the best grocery store in TX if you care about prices and wide selection of products. The history of HEB is something I want to learn about. I know from reading Robert Caros LBJ volumes that Howard Butt was funneling a lot of money to LBJ staring in the 30s or 40s. Not to judge that, I’m just curious how they dominated Texas.

Taniwha 4mo ago
Viruses do not "fester" on flat surfaces, if they fester in anything it is cells
- cwillu 4mo ago
  I think you replied to the wrong comment.
chrisco255 4mo ago
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- steve-atx-7600 4mo ago
  I’m not following. The barrier separated the cashiers who were mandated to wear masks from the customers who were asked to wear masks (asked vs absolutely forced after violent protests by angry “freedom loving” customers). It was essentially like a giant plastic face mask that medical staff were wearing at the time in addition to masks. I’d sure like it to be present in the same way I wouldn’t eat at a buffet without a sneeze guard. You’d fault the company for spending time and money building those out for their cashiers? Keeping the store open - while asking everyone to social distance and wear masks - kept people employed and allowed mothers that needed to stop by a store to pickup something when they may not have another option to do so.

drivingmenuts 4mo ago

Randy Feltface (Australian puppet comedian) was absolutely blown away by HEB when he came to Texas. Apparently, they have nothing like that in Australia. Two constants in Texas: HEB and Waffle House.

FastRodent 4mo ago

Yes they treat us very well. I had a coworker who suffered from addiction and every few weeks they reached out to see if they were okay. This went on for two years until they quit. Literally if you are willing to work they will hire you. Alot of my family and friends have started their careers here and they love it. Unsurprisingly the way they treat employees also means that the talent pool in corporate is excellent. Employees are very invested in the company's future. I could go on but yes they are good.

cityofdelusion 4mo ago

HEB operates a similar model to Costco in being more expensive to the customer in a subtle way, through desirability. Their products are so interesting and appetizing that I go in with the intention of buying $30 of groceries and leave with a $100 load. Many of these products end up as local memes (tortillas, brisket queso, green sauce) they are so desirable. Wal-Mart is the opposite. I go in to buy groceries and am always astonished to have my trip be like for $27 or something. I usually shop from the outside of the grocery (raw produce) and they are just dirt cheap. HEB operates a series of upscale Central Market stores that are even more lopsided in price and even more interesting in selection.

horns4lyfe 4mo ago
Ya, central market was the only store close to me for a while and it crushed my budget, but was very worth it
yurishimo 4mo ago
Fun fact but Central Market actually operates on the same margins as HEB. Their produce in particular is competitively priced. Where they get you however, is that all of their produce is jumbo sized. So yea, you have a competitive price on the apples per pound, but if you want 6 apples, they are on average going to be more than from HEB or a different supermarket. Subtle, but it allows them to make some fun marketing claims!
skeeter2020 4mo ago
In Canada WalMart super centers (the ones with groceries) are low quality and have prices as high as (or higher) than other stores. Everything is prepackaged and shipped to the store so meat, dairy and bakery is the worst in town.
- BigGreenJorts 4mo ago
  Yeah grocery at Walmart is ONLY for shelf stables and some frozens (even that is rare with their freezer operating practices) for me bc the quality of the "outside" is so poor.
4mo ago

1659447091 4mo ago

There are lots feel-good things to say about how HEB runs its business and what it does for the communities and local areas they are in. Not to mention their "generic" store branded foods are usually healthier and made with simple ingredients. And locally sourced. But this story[0] is the one that I think sums up the love people have for HEB pretty well. During the 2021 "Great Texas Freeze" [1] (where 4+million homes went without power for days, 10+million without safe drinking water and 200+ died); basically during a rush to stock up on food, the power went out at an HEB and they couldnt check anyone out, but instead of telling everyone to leave their carts and exit to go home without food, they let them all to walk out with whatever they had in their carts. It's unfortunate that more big businesses don't even try to be a net positive the way HEB does. (some seem to be actively hostile to the idea) [0] https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/09/us/texas-storm-recovery-heb-grocery-store-donations-cnnheroes https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/09/us/texas-storm-recovery-heb-g... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Texas_power_crisis

dundarious 4mo ago
This is the centerpiece of TFA: > When it was their turn at the register, the Hennessys started loading their groceries on the conveyor belt but were told to put the groceries back in the cart. The woman at the register asked if they had alcohol. They didn’t. Then she waved them toward the exits. > “Go home and be safe,” she said.
userbinator 4mo ago
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- userbinator 4mo ago
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bdcravens 4mo ago

My wife was actually working at HEB when we met, so I can definitely say I've found some great options there. :-) Seriously though, I prefer many things there: recycled toilet paper/paper towels, pet food (their quality line, not the cheap stuff), and even their to-go sushi are all among my favorites in those categories. For beer drinkers, they actually have an impressive craft selection.

SwellJoe 4mo ago

My mom moved out of Texas about 20 years ago, and still sometimes talks fondly about HEB. I'm currently in Dallas, and annoyingly there is no HEB within a reasonable distance, though they have finally started opening stores in the DFW metro area. Just none in central Dallas, yet. They do just about everything right. Their lower bound on quality for stuff like produce is higher than most stores, their store brands are usually higher quality than the big brands (real sugar instead of high fructose corn syrup, fewer unpronounceable ingredients, etc., and often simply taste better). Their employees seem more invested in it being a good shopping experience, and I hope that means they're treated well. Anyway, it's earned loyalty. It's not just a "well, it's been here for a long time and it's what I'm used to".

fastball 4mo ago
They might not have as many HEBs in DFW, but that is where Central Market is head-quartered!
- SwellJoe 4mo ago
  The Dallas Central Market is a 35 minute bike ride away. Too far. And, besides, it's not HEB. It's fine, but there's a Whole Foods 27 minutes away if I want the fancy groceries, though that's also too far for a regular grocery run.
  - Conscat 4mo ago
    As much as I loved growing up with HEB, my fondest memories are of eating Central Market squid salad and brie in its playground/music venue backyard.
- deleted 4mo ago
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SOLAR_FIELDS 4mo ago
The way HEB wins the hearts and souls of every Texan is via the tortilla machine. No other major grocery chain stocks fresh, daily made tortillas and instead offers premade "tortillas"

collabs 4mo ago

I lived closer to WinCo in DFW area and could walk to a grocery store to buy bread or some random grocery item. It was really nice. I don't think Europeans will ever understand how much of a flex it is to be able to walk to a grocery store in Texas.

CharlesW 4mo ago
To be fair, it's difficult for a European to walk to a grocery store in Texas.
DANmode 4mo ago
I don’t think Europeans want to understand why most of us are okay with a massive struggle to get food and basics, instead of them being on every corner.
- deleted 4mo ago
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jubilanti 4mo ago
I don't think you realize how boringly normal it is in Europe for people to never have a car and take public transit to the hypermarket, the same Cathedral of Consumerist Capitalism with a combined supermarket, shopping mall, movie theater, often a stadium for concerts and sports... And you can go with a granny hand cart multiple times a week because it's just a few stops on public transit, where it is also often a hub. La Defense and Forum des Halles in Paris, Stratford City in London, Mall of Tripla in Helsinki, Vasco de Gama in Lisbon
- ahartmetz 4mo ago
  I've lived in three different places in Berlin and never took public transit for grocery shopping. It would be pointless because the shops are in walking distance, just a few hundred meters away. Hypermarkets (which are rare, though I guess you could call Kaufland a mini-hypermarket) or more specialized stores are for less daily needs.
- 4mo ago

poffdeluxe 4mo ago

Fiance and I moved from Austin to the Bay Area about two years ago. The thing we miss the most? Probably HEB.

jollymonATX 4mo ago

This store is highly over-rated.

CSMastermind 4mo ago

I have a weird affection for good georcery chains. Wegmans, HEB, Giant Eagle, to a limited extent Publix. It's so odd to me that there are areas of the country with nothing like them. It really seems like you just need one good family who decides that they're going to care about how they're set up and make an effort to build a company with the right values.

actionfromafar 4mo ago
Related: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48477135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48477135
aidenn0 4mo ago
Grocery stores got bad in most of the country the way a lot of things did, through illegal M&A.
- CSMastermind 4mo ago
  They used to have HEB, Wegmans, etc quality stores in Seattle before some merger? What were they? Why did this M&A seemingly not happen in Texas, New York, Florida, Pennsylvania, and Ohio?
  - aidenn0 4mo ago
    I've never lived in Seattle, but I know that Haggen was a casualty of The Safeway/Albertson's merger[1]; I can't speak to their quality. Safeway and Albertsons had already bought up many grocery stores prior to that merger. When I was a kid, we knew which grocer had the best butcher and which had the best baker, and neither were chain stores. 1: Granted Haggen isn't entirely innocent here; they saw a potential growth opportunity and over-leveraged.

JoshGlazebrook 4mo ago

HEB is still a lot better than the national chains, but HEB has also started cutting costs in various areas. Their tortilla chips are no longer made in store, the bakery is essentially just frozen dough that comes in and is baked. Their cakes have historically been dense and dry. A lot of the time when they come out with their store brand product, they will just drop the name brand now, and in some cases it's clearly a downgrade. So while I still admire HEB and choose it over anything else, it's on its way down in terms of quality and value. Haven't been to Central Market (their high end brand) in a while, but it's night and day compared to HEB.

bob1029 4mo ago

I shop at a combination of HEB and Kroger. I go to HEB when I want their corn tortillas and good customer service. I go to Kroger for everything else. HEB is a fantastically ran store, but the quality of many of the goods tends to suffer relative to competition. Things like chicken broth that isn't fake can only be found at the gigantic, brand-new HEB 30 miles away (or at any Kroger). The local HEB built a decade ago seems to be somewhat forgotten by corporate.

tristor 4mo ago

Every time I move away from Texas, it's not the BBQ or any of the other things that might come to mind I miss, it's HEB. There's no other grocery store like it. HEB legitimately has everything I need and more, even in the normal stores, and when I want something really special its available through Central Market or an HEB Plus. The way they treat their employees and exist in the community far exceeds the expectations most people have of a grocery chain. I'll never forget that they were one of the first on site after the recent flooding in South Texas to feed first responders and employees paid to volunteer in the search party, they provided food at no cost when their stores lost power to thousands of households during Snowpocalypse and worked tirelessly to restock and restore power via generator to ensure folks could get what they needed even as the city went dark, and during Katrina they set up mobile kitchens and kept them stocked to feed emergency workers and storm refugees throughout the Houston metro area, as well as many many many other examples of them stepping up when our own state government has failed us. As someone who's lived in Texas off an on for more than two decades and lives here now, I would trust HEB ten times before I'd trust anyone in the state government here.

sfifs 4mo ago

It's quite interesting what incentives and culture being a privately held company creates.