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Compared to gas cars: Kia K4 hatchback is $26k with a lot more creature-comforts. Gets 34mpg, so if $6/gal gas is here to stay that's $0.17 per mile of fuel co

by aidenn0 4mo ago

Compared to gas cars: Kia K4 hatchback is $26k with a lot more creature-comforts. Gets 34mpg, so if $6/gal gas is here to stay that's $0.17 per mile of fuel costs. My EV gets almost exactly 4miles/kW average and I pay $0.21 per kW so that's about $0.05 per mile. So $0.12 per mile saved in fuel costs implies about 80k miles for break-even. This excludes costs of servicing, which should be higher on the gas car. [edit typo'd an extra 0 it's 80k miles for break-even] [edit2] After looking up my energy bill I pay $0.27 so it's between 10 and 11 cents per mile saved. Break-even is still under 100k miles.

fouc 4mo ago
I think you meant 80k not 800k, $0.12 * 80,000 = $9,600
beaviskhan 4mo ago
I think you've got an extra zero in there somewhere $35k - $26k = $9k $9k / $0.12/mile savings ~= 75,000 miles breakeven
- mgrandl 4mo ago
  And that is completely ignoring maintenance cost which tends to be a lot cheaper on EVs.
  - IshKebab 4mo ago
    Somewhat cheaper anyway (30% according to https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/petrol-vs-electric-servicing-costs-2025/ https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/petrol-vs-electric-servicing-... ), but I wouldn't be surprised if that is wiped out by the increased insurance costs. I definitely wouldn't buy an EV based on lower service costs.
    - bryanlarsen 4mo ago
      That's based on the manufacturer's "lets not upset our dealers" maintenance schedule and is completely unnecessary. In reality you can probably bring your EV to the dealer once every 4 years or so. On that schedule you should: - check the brake fluid for water - change the cabin air filter - change the gearbox oil - check/change the battery coolant If you're going in more frequent than that you're getting a very expensive windshield wiper replacement. The real kicker is going to be repair costs. An EV has about 10% of the moving parts of an ICE car, so in theory repairs should be much less frequent. But if the ICE is a Toyota and the EV is a Tesla, YMMV. You'll probably have to replace the battery at around 250,000 miles but at that point the car is worth pretty much scrap value anyways.
      - aidenn0 4mo ago
        4 years for replacing the cabin air-filter? Do you live somewhere with no pollen or smoke? I replace mine annually, but it's easy enough to do myself (right behind the glovebox, needs zero tools)
      - Marsymars 4mo ago
        FWIW, my 10+ year spreadsheet of the maintenance costs on my last ICE lined up pretty well with that - about 1/3 of the costs were ICE-specific issues, 2/3 were for parts that would have been common to an EV. > In reality you can probably bring your EV to the dealer once every 4 years or so. Not really, I need twice-yearly seasonal tire changes/rotations.
        bryanlarsen 4mo ago
        How much of that 2/3 was brakes? In 100,000 miles on our ICE we replaced brakes twice and they likely need replacing soon again. On our EV at 100,000 miles they look like they'll last another 100,000.
        Marsymars 4mo ago
        Brakes were ~8.5% of the total, or ~17% of the 2/3. Some combination of being light on brake use (manual + efficient driving) and the road salt used here means I replaced the brakes from corrosion before they wore down from use. I could budget for yearly service (rather than the never-service-until-required plan I went with) that would presumably lengthen the lives of my brakes as far as corrosion is concerned, but at current shop rates that would cost more than what my brake replacements cost.
superxpro12 4mo ago
$.21/kw seems high for home charging... im at $.12, before the extra savings that gets me closer to $.10
- neogodless 4mo ago
  Varies widely by state and other factors. I'm at around $0.18 for 1kWh when you look at the overall bill including generation, supply, and all other fees. (My car averages 3.3 miles / kWh, so ~$0.055 / mile assuming 100% charge efficiency... I'm using a 120V outlet so it's probably 75-80% charge efficiency, pushing the cost to ~$0.068 / mile.)
  - aidenn0 4mo ago
    Is using a 120V charger really only 80% charge efficiency? That would add another penny or two per mile to my cost.
    - neogodless 4mo ago
      https://insideevs.com/features/711659/ev-charger-efficiency-losses/ https://insideevs.com/features/711659/ev-charger-efficiency-... Suggests up to 25% loss if your just plugging into an outlet, but a wallbox improves that considerably.
- toast0 4mo ago
  I was at $0.12 3 years ago, but rates have jumped (and there's two more years of planned rate increases coming up)
- aidenn0 4mo ago
  $0.21 was from memory, so I pulled up my bill and it was actually low: Southern California Edison on the time-of-use plan, charging during "Super off peak." Note that nowhere on the bill do they show one number for how much you pay per kWh. These numbers will change next month as we go from "Winter" to "Summer" Delivery charges: $0.17664 CCA Cost responsibility surcharge: $0.02007 Nonbypassable charges: $0.00644 + $0.00591 Fixed recovery charge: $0.00619 Generation charge: $0.05958 Unless I typoed something again (oops 800k) that works out to $0.27 for the cheapest I can pay in winter. I compared last fall and this was by far the cheapest plan offered to me for overnight charging.
jerlam 4mo ago
California (and many other states) also charges you an additional annual EV registration fee of $121 in lieu of gas taxes. There was some noise earlier this year about a federal EV tax too.
- bombcar 4mo ago
  I wish they'd just tax the tires. Bigger vehicles, more tires, more wear.
  - aidenn0 4mo ago
    That might have the unintended consequence of people running tires bald and getting in more accidents?
    - bombcar 4mo ago
      Then we'll tax the accidents.
fooker 3mo ago
Not sure if I'm out of touch, but this looks like such a minor difference in cost that I'd expect people to not even take cost into consideration while making the EV vs gas decision. Factors like the (perceived) environment friendliness, comfort and (in)convenience are likely to be much more important.

by aidenn0 4mo ago

fouc 4mo ago

I think you meant 80k not 800k, $0.12 * 80,000 = $9,600

beaviskhan 4mo ago

I think you've got an extra zero in there somewhere $35k - $26k = $9k $9k / $0.12/mile savings ~= 75,000 miles breakeven

mgrandl 4mo ago
And that is completely ignoring maintenance cost which tends to be a lot cheaper on EVs.
- IshKebab 4mo ago
  Somewhat cheaper anyway (30% according to https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/petrol-vs-electric-servicing-costs-2025/ https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/petrol-vs-electric-servicing-... ), but I wouldn't be surprised if that is wiped out by the increased insurance costs. I definitely wouldn't buy an EV based on lower service costs.
  - bryanlarsen 4mo ago
    That's based on the manufacturer's "lets not upset our dealers" maintenance schedule and is completely unnecessary. In reality you can probably bring your EV to the dealer once every 4 years or so. On that schedule you should: - check the brake fluid for water - change the cabin air filter - change the gearbox oil - check/change the battery coolant If you're going in more frequent than that you're getting a very expensive windshield wiper replacement. The real kicker is going to be repair costs. An EV has about 10% of the moving parts of an ICE car, so in theory repairs should be much less frequent. But if the ICE is a Toyota and the EV is a Tesla, YMMV. You'll probably have to replace the battery at around 250,000 miles but at that point the car is worth pretty much scrap value anyways.
    - aidenn0 4mo ago
      4 years for replacing the cabin air-filter? Do you live somewhere with no pollen or smoke? I replace mine annually, but it's easy enough to do myself (right behind the glovebox, needs zero tools)
    - Marsymars 4mo ago
      FWIW, my 10+ year spreadsheet of the maintenance costs on my last ICE lined up pretty well with that - about 1/3 of the costs were ICE-specific issues, 2/3 were for parts that would have been common to an EV. > In reality you can probably bring your EV to the dealer once every 4 years or so. Not really, I need twice-yearly seasonal tire changes/rotations.
      - bryanlarsen 4mo ago
        How much of that 2/3 was brakes? In 100,000 miles on our ICE we replaced brakes twice and they likely need replacing soon again. On our EV at 100,000 miles they look like they'll last another 100,000.
        Marsymars 4mo ago
        Brakes were ~8.5% of the total, or ~17% of the 2/3. Some combination of being light on brake use (manual + efficient driving) and the road salt used here means I replaced the brakes from corrosion before they wore down from use. I could budget for yearly service (rather than the never-service-until-required plan I went with) that would presumably lengthen the lives of my brakes as far as corrosion is concerned, but at current shop rates that would cost more than what my brake replacements cost.

superxpro12 4mo ago

$.21/kw seems high for home charging... im at $.12, before the extra savings that gets me closer to $.10

neogodless 4mo ago
Varies widely by state and other factors. I'm at around $0.18 for 1kWh when you look at the overall bill including generation, supply, and all other fees. (My car averages 3.3 miles / kWh, so ~$0.055 / mile assuming 100% charge efficiency... I'm using a 120V outlet so it's probably 75-80% charge efficiency, pushing the cost to ~$0.068 / mile.)
- aidenn0 4mo ago
  Is using a 120V charger really only 80% charge efficiency? That would add another penny or two per mile to my cost.
  - neogodless 4mo ago
    https://insideevs.com/features/711659/ev-charger-efficiency-losses/ https://insideevs.com/features/711659/ev-charger-efficiency-... Suggests up to 25% loss if your just plugging into an outlet, but a wallbox improves that considerably.
toast0 4mo ago
I was at $0.12 3 years ago, but rates have jumped (and there's two more years of planned rate increases coming up)
aidenn0 4mo ago
$0.21 was from memory, so I pulled up my bill and it was actually low: Southern California Edison on the time-of-use plan, charging during "Super off peak." Note that nowhere on the bill do they show one number for how much you pay per kWh. These numbers will change next month as we go from "Winter" to "Summer" Delivery charges: $0.17664 CCA Cost responsibility surcharge: $0.02007 Nonbypassable charges: $0.00644 + $0.00591 Fixed recovery charge: $0.00619 Generation charge: $0.05958 Unless I typoed something again (oops 800k) that works out to $0.27 for the cheapest I can pay in winter. I compared last fall and this was by far the cheapest plan offered to me for overnight charging.

jerlam 4mo ago

California (and many other states) also charges you an additional annual EV registration fee of $121 in lieu of gas taxes. There was some noise earlier this year about a federal EV tax too.

bombcar 4mo ago
I wish they'd just tax the tires. Bigger vehicles, more tires, more wear.
- aidenn0 4mo ago
  That might have the unintended consequence of people running tires bald and getting in more accidents?
  - bombcar 4mo ago
    Then we'll tax the accidents.

fooker 3mo ago

Not sure if I'm out of touch, but this looks like such a minor difference in cost that I'd expect people to not even take cost into consideration while making the EV vs gas decision. Factors like the (perceived) environment friendliness, comfort and (in)convenience are likely to be much more important.