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Apple - Think Twice
- kalleboo 14y agoI have a Retina MacBook Pro with the same issue. It has really soured me to Macs (which I've used literally all my life). You know if this has happened to one of their more high-profile products (one that begins with an "i" and fits in your hand), it wouldn't fly. But Apple haven't had much pride in their Macs for years now, and have let really bad design flaws like this go unfixed.
- ohwp 14y agoSometimes you can fix it yourself by running an animation with only 3 frames: one red, one green and one blue. Let it run all night if possible. It once fixed my Dell monitor with (as they called it) "lazy pixels".
- agscala 14y agoI thought that running that animation will fix stuck pixels, not cure ghosting.
- indiecore 14y agoGlad I got a Lenovo. I was mulling over getting a macbook for the longest time since I wanted the option to develop iPhone apps. After thinking it over I realized that I was disgusted with Apple's practices and didn't want to support them beyond what I absolutely had to, so I'm getting a Thinkpad and I'm quite content with that. Any phone dev will have Android first and I'll get a second hand mini or something when I need to do iPhone work.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- flyinRyan 14y agoSo you're going the route of "get it a little cheaper and expect little or no support"?
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- Gigablah 14y agoI think flyinRyan was referring to the second hand mini rather than the Lenovo?
- chucknelson 14y agoYep, you're right! Deleted my comment.
- indiecore 14y agoSorry, not sure if you're talking about grabbing the second-hand mini when the time comes or talking about my laptop purchase. In both cases it's not an issue of price it's an issue of Apple doesn't deserve my money and any transactions that I have to do with them will be solely based on accessing iOS users.
- pixelbath 14y agoSupport? It's a laptop, not an API. The only real support I expect after purchase is warranty replacement for faulty hardware.
- piyush_soni 14y agoBlind faith in anything is bad. Do you really think only Apple products have (considerable) support?
- whazzmaster 14y agoMy four-month-old rMBP's screen failed last week and now I'm staring at replacing it out-of-pocket, or never using it as a portable machine again and leaving it hooked up to an external monitor. I'm so unhappy with Apple right now. EDIT: I couldn't find the default warranty (sans AppleCare) and based this comment off of other similar situations (including OP). I found out this morning that it IS COVERED by the default warranty, so I'm not unhappy anymore. This is my bad.
- teraflop 14y agoI thought MacBooks came with a one-year warranty. Does it not cover the display or something?
- robin_reala 14y ago2 years in Europe.
- iaskwhy 14y agoNot in the UK though.
- stuartmemo 14y agoUK is no different from the rest of Europe. 2 years - Apple just don't make it obvious. http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/ http://www.apple.com/uk/legal/statutory-warranty/ See also: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19788361 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19788361
- uptown 14y agoIt has a 1 year warranty. Use it. You can also buy AppleCare any time during the first year of ownership if you decide you want a warranty longer than one year.
- mikeash 14y agoWhy can't you get it fixed under warranty?
- tomplayford 14y agoSame issue.
- kzahel 14y agoMy coworker's display retina has the same ghosting problem and it looks pretty bad. I know I would be very annoyed if mine had ghosting. I would love to use a non-mac version of a laptop with a 2560px+ display, but I'm not aware if one exists.
- msy 14y agoRevision A Apple projects have had issues for as long as Apple has been making products. Second gen Macbook Air's had Logic board issues, 2007 era RevA Macbook Pros had video card issues, dodgy graphics cards on the early Mac Pros, the iPhone4 antenna, the list is endless. Often it's taken years for the issues to be resolved and Apple to pay for repairs, if at all. It's simple, if you want the shiniest tech, buy whatever Apple is selling today. If you want reliable hardware, wait for the first revision when the kinks have been worked out. That way we don't all get spammed with the histronics of endless bloggers who think this is a new phenomenon.
- jug6ernaut 14y agoI think you missed the whole point of the article. The point isn't with the fact that there is an issue, its that Apple is seemingly trying to sweep it under the rug.
- piyush_soni 14y agoThey're all about earning money by ANY unethical means possible. We should already boycott it for not only suing big companies for ridiculous patents, but for trying to EXTORT money from small coffee shops and online grocery shops who have nothing to do with electronics business!
- lazerwalker 14y agoCan you substantiate this claim at all? I'd love to hear how Apple is trying to extort money from coffee shops and grocery stores.
- piyush_soni 14y agoSure! Though I'd love if people would ask this question before giving negative votes. Anyway, before you read these, just try to be a bit impartial towards any side, which is generally difficult for Apple fans. (Tell me very honestly, if you think the logo of this small coffee shop in Germany has really any similarity with Apple's logo, except the fact that both of them are derived from the fruit apple!) http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1231539-Apple-sues-small-german-caf%C3%A9 http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1231539-Apple-sues-small... That poor woman just sold coffee, not electronic devices. Any sane mind would not find any 'infringement', unless they believe Apple 'owns' the fruit itself now. Second, they sue an online GROCERY shop from Poland since its website name is "a.pl". ".pl" is the top level domain code for Poland, a is the first alphabet. Even they are not competing with Apple in any manner, but it claims "they are using our reputation". WTF! http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2409669,00.asp http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2409669,00.asp They always know that small businesses can't fight back, so they are easy targets. No, please don't come up with arguments like "What's wrong with defending your brand?". This is NOT defending your brand. There's no brand name getting hurt here. You just think you own the fruit.
- bitwize 14y agoApple is using trademark law to ensure that no one can do to Apple what Apple did to the Beatles.
- cloverich 14y agoSo you're front page Hacker News. Why not put together a poll of people with similar issues and file a joint complaint? You purchased an expensive machine, I'd imagine anyone similarly experiencing the issue would be willing to put in some effort to get a bit more attention drawn to it.
- jcizzle 14y agoHow are you performing this test? Are you creating an application with a plain grey window and running it? I think this could be an OS issue/graphics driver issue. I sometimes notice things "behind" my dark grey Xcode editor window - like for example, I can see this website in Safari behind Xcode. However, sometimes, I see stuff that isn't directly behind Xcode - but it is in another Space. If the hardware test is succeeding, and you are only seeing "ghosting" on particularly colored windows, I think it is safe to say it may not be the display. (It still may be the display. I'm just saying there are more variables here, and I don't have all of your information.)
- hmottestad 14y agoIt's the display. If it were a software problem Apple would probably not be replacing any screens at all or even performing a screen test.
- flyinRyan 14y agoI hope this goes viral. Apple was starting to actually gain a little bit of market share in the home computer space and IMO support was a big reason. I know I can have a better spec for less money but I felt like more effort and care was put into Apple products. No one is going to be interested in paying the "Apple tax" if you get the same shitty support you get from most PC makers.
- astrodust 14y agoYou do realize they sell truckloads of these products and any flaws in them will be publicized due to the staggering volumes involved, right? Companies like Dell can hide behind several factors, like their notebooks are usually priced a lot lower, quality expectations aren't as high, and they make such a dizzying number of models that any problems are diluted. I do hope it gets more press so that the problem can be properly addressed, Apple does pay attention to the squeaky wheels after all, but don't get all crazy now. Nobody's dying because their screen has a ghosting issue.
- ssharp 14y agoAre there historical contexts for comparing 1) the failure rate of Apple laptops, particularly first gen and 2) the response to these hardware failures? I'm curious if this is something more widespread or if the author got unlucky and has simply suffered for the first time what many others have suffered previously.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- nsfmc 14y agoin my experience, it takes a few tries to successfully roll the hard six to get a sympathetic genius. it's not exactly social engineering, but there are some folks who are more likely to take your side especially if you can show that the problem is happening while you're sitting there with them. still, the fact that the applecare universe works like that at all is a bit disheartening especially if you have a legitimate hardware issue but an unsympathetic genius.
- kmfrk 14y agoAntenna causing problems? "You're holding it wrong." Camera artifacts? "You're holding it wrong." [1] Burn-in? "Does not compute." Scruffing on the iPhone 5 [2]? People don't even bother to write about it. Same for the poor performance on Retina devices. Unless you're someone like Anandtech who are so meticulous many don't bother to read the fint print. Maybe it's time we got some Apple-specific buyer's guides from people who don't grade on a curve. I still want to buy Apple products (not first-edition versions, though), but I want to know what I'm in for. [1]: http://gizmodo.com/5947972/apple-acknowledges-iphone-5-camera-problem-says-youre-holding-it-wrong http://gizmodo.com/5947972/apple-acknowledges-iphone-5-camer... [2]: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2012/10/17/hon-hais-explanation-for-iphone-5-shortage/ http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2012/10/17/hon-hais-explanation-...
- astrodust 14y agoWhy is it people get all frothing at the mouth angry about Apple's mistakes when they just shrug indifferently the mis-steps of other companies? I haven't heard people losing their shit because their $4,000 Sony laptop webcam isn't as amazing as Sony promised.
- grinich 14y agoTemper tantrums only feel good if people are watching you.
- astrodust 14y agoThis is a good point.
- timbre 14y agoFew people complain about Sony laptops because few people buy them.
- mmagin 14y agoBecause they've been told that they're paying a premium for Apple products because they'll have a better experience.
- arrrg 14y agoFuck everything about this. I had two screen replaced, luckily before Apple came up with this idiotic test. On the second replacement I lucked out and got a Samsung screen that doesn’t have the issue. But that they still have not solved that problem that is plain as day fucking sucks! What is wrong with those idiots?! Why do they do stuff like that? It makes my blood boil. Apple, fuck you! Why do you do this to your customers? Why do you torture them like that? Still! I really believed that by now you would have solved that problem. After I got my Samsung screen I honestly stopped reading the forums because it brought down my mood. To know hear – months later – that they still haven’t solved the issue in any real way makes me just angry and sad. This is not excusable. Excuses about this being a first gen product are obviously not valid. If you can’t sell it in a satisfactory manner, you have to give your customers their money back (or give them Samsung screen which are, unlike LG screens, not affected by the issue).
- mdonahoe 14y agoYou sound like an addict.
- arrrg 14y agoExcuse me?
- lucian1900 14y agoStill using/caring about their hardware even after they disappointed you so badly.
- arrrg 14y agoIf not for this issue, the rMBP would be the best laptop for me personally by miles and miles. Of course I care! No one else makes products that get me but Apple, so this disappointment weighs extra heavy. I'm exploring alternatives, but that is years out.
- 14y ago
- chasing 14y agoI have the same issue on my rMBP, and while I wish it didn't happen, I still quite like the laptop. It's not a constant thing and it hasn't interfered at all with my ability to see what's supposed to be on the screen.
- meaty 14y agoI wouldn't buy another Apple product either. Between a MacBook Pro which caught fire, an AirPort which melted, an iMac which the backlight went on and a MacBook which had to go back 4 times (!) due to logic board problems, it scares the shit out of me parting with that sort of cash and actually depending on it. The muppets at the "genius bar" (retard shelf as we call it now) aren't exactly helpful and usher you away so other people don't hear about it as well. I now buy OLD Lenovo machines (T61 series) and chuck Debian on them. I buy two at a time and stick a (Samsung) SSD in them for less than half the cost of an MBP. One lives in the cupboard as a backup. I have a few spare batteries (9-cell and Ultrabay) sitting around as well. Also, I find it objectionable purchasing anything that doesn't have a way of isolating the power either i.e. removing the battery. One short on a LiPoly pack and your tech gadget turns neatly into an incendiary device, which is what happened to my 2010 MBP. It nearly burned my house down. I genuinely don't get all these people who think they are soundly engineered. They are expensive trinkets with no engineering applied past appearance.
- astrodust 14y agoAlthough you might have requirements that aren't met by Apple's products, such as wanting a removable battery, to call them "expensive trinkets" with "no engineering" is absurd. Apple's work on the unibody case is but one example of how they're pushing manufacturing technology as far as it can go today. Other vendors are content to stamp out the same old plastic clamshell, to fit in the same old motherboard and optical drive, whatever's cheapest and quickest. With the exception of Sony and HP, few companies even try to do what Apple's doing.
- meaty 14y agoAhh yes the unibody which is basically a fucking big short circuit, hence why mine caught fire. It's engineering, but it's not SOUND ENGINEERING. I stand by my expensive trinket comment. Buy a Lenovo T-series and you'll understand.
- astrodust 14y agoYou're essentially saying that any computer with a metal case, or extensive metal shielding inside could suffer the same problem. HP makes a number of metal laptops, for instance, in an effort to make them more recyclable, the same reasoning behind Apple's materials decision. Why would I buy a Lenovo T-series? It looks virtually indistinguishable from any laptop made in the late 1990s and still has that absurd red joystick. I hope they've improved the trackpad because those were nearly unusable before. I know there's Lenovo fans, ThinkPad fanatics, but they look like junk and feel even crappier. The new Dell Ubuntu laptop is the only thing I can think of as a reasonable alternative to what Apple's doing.
- strooltz 14y agoI bought the Macbook Pro retina back over the summer and was a little upset when a small dead pixel cluster appeared on the display after about a month of use. I brought it back to the apple store (i did not purchase applecare). I was told that this was happening in about 1 our of every 40 MBP retinas and they happily replaced the display in less than 24 hours. I'm not implying that my situation is "unique/new/ particularly note-worthy" but it is just as antidotal as yours and ended with a positive outcome.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- xmpir 14y agoour designer had the same problem: after 2 weeks of usage some dead pixels appeared right in the middle of the retina display. unfortunatly in austria we don't have a apple store - just resellers. he was told that he should try to send it back but that there is a tolerance of pixels that are allowed to be dead, so actually those few dead pixels are tolerable. he decided to send it back anyway, i wonder what will happen...
- jblock 14y agoWhen I went to have it looked at, the Apple store employee was fairly sympathetic even though it failed the test (he told me that people do fail it, but that more often than not it's just below the threshold). He told me to keep trying the test at the store until it fails. Whether other Apple store employees will be as sympathetic, I don't know. Is corporate trying to sweep it under the rug? Maybe. But this is a costly repair for a part that is in incredibly high demand. It's not right and I'm frustrated about it, but I'm not surprised.
- emcl 14y agoThe reaction expected from you is rage, and not frustration and helplessness. I don't know of any other company that would kick its customers in the nuts and that too the early adopters.
- jblock 14y agoRemember that apple sells millions of these things and we are <200 commenters on a website filled with edge case power users. Odds are that a good amount of buyers either don't care or haven't noticed the problem. It's not kicking their customers in the nuts. They poorly structured the evaluation method to set a threshold for repair and are having to backtrack and fix an expensive quality control mistake. They're not kicking me in the nuts. They're a company of humans that has to deal with a problem in a way that satisfies their suppliers, shareholders, and engineers. I've found greater success in approaching problems like this with rationality. With lots of noise, maybe the test will change (only 30 seconds on the grey screen will make a metric shit-ton of the units qualify for replacement).
- emcl 14y agoIf the customers start sympathizing like that then they're going to stop listening to us and only act according to the other constraints you mentioned. If i go and buy a Pro Retina, the screen is the last thing i want trouble with, and if they fail in ensuring that it works, they should just replace it. Period. I don't give a damn about thresholds and whether im being 'reasonable' in whining or not. Maybe it's just me i want the best when i pay for it. Screw the shareholders and suppliers.
- dr_ 14y agoReally, I've found the case to be just the opposite. I have a friend who had a 15" MBP, prob circa 2009. He kept complaining that a pixel would be missing on the screen on occassion. He tried to point it out to me, but it's something I never noticed. He took it to the Apple store multiple times, and they said they fixed it, but nothing was ever changed according to him. Finally, when he took it back one final time, they just replaced it with the newest 15" MBP available at the time. I was a bit surprised.
- noonespecial 14y agoI thought Apple got this concept but PR is more than just spinning half-truths on TV to make the company look good. The highest calling of PR is the ability to say "it will cost more than we made selling this thing to fix it, but we need to do it anyway." Companies that care about their reputations have guys like that head their PR departments and listen to them when they say this. Frankly, you expect this kind of behavior from companies that are costing on autopilot with no one willing to take responsibility for anything at the helm. It is surprising to see it from Apple.
- pirateking 14y agoHad this happen to my Retina MacBook Pro too. Went to the Apple store and after some pleading was able to get them to place an order for a new one. Two weeks of glazing over staring at ghosts later I go to pick it up. They upgraded the replacement to the largest size SSD for free! It was all down hill after that. I had to transfer my data from the lemon. The Geniuses on staff were clearly unfamiliar with some of the quirks of Migration Assistant. I offered to do the migration myself if they gave me a Thunderbolt cable. That ends up forcing me to spend another hour in the store, which of course I use to check for signs of ghosting on the new machine. I run the following command: ioreg -lw0 | grep \"EDID\" | sed "/[^<]*</s///" | xxd -p -r | strings -6 Like the lemon, the new one is an LG panel as well. Word on the forums is that only the LG panels have the ghosting issue. I ask the Genius if I can swap once more before leaving the store. He says no. I head home anxiously, hoping my screen is pure. Nope. While it is still one of the best computers I have ever used, it is just unacceptable to be gambling $4000 for hardware I rely on. I will be trying for another exchange soon because there is really no other option, but the standards for "it just works" have noticeably slipped across the company.
- TheCapn 14y agoI don't want this question to sound loaded and threaded with negative connotations for/against apple but why would you label the computer as "one of the best I have ever used" if one of the primary interfaces to the user is repeatedly faulty? I'm not a Mac user. My work and personal desires drive me towards Windows/Linux and I would have foregone any manufacturer that pulled that type of behavior on me (as I have with numerous retailers already). Sort of a "fool me once" type scenario as I see it.
- Nikaido 14y ago> I don't want this question to sound loaded and threaded with negative connotations for/against apple but why would you label the computer as "one of the best I have ever used" if one of the primary interfaces to the user is repeatedly faulty? Because mac users tend to put the weight and thinness of the machine over anything else and since the rMBP is the thinnest and lightest 15" laptop it makes it the "best". Hell, Apple is doing the "thin/small and light" thing even with their "desktop" machines like the iMac and Mac Mini. Mac and PC users just have different set of priorities. I used to own macs but I fully went back to the PC because being able to handle repairs myself in a timely manner is much more important than the niceties of OS X for me, particularly with desktop machines. The mac mini is not good enough for me, and the iMac is exactly what I don't want, if anything fails in the computer I want to be able to replace the part in five minutes and be done with it. That and the fact that the screen tends to outlive my computers in usefulness, I replace them less often than the parts of my desktop PC so buying a computer attached to the screen feels offensive to me. The Mac Pro could've been an alternative but.. 2600 euros for a computer that is outdated in every single way out of the box is not attractive. Its GPU used to be a mid-range gamer card, used to, because it's not even mid-range in 2012, it's low end. If you build your own computer a GPU with that kind of performance will cost about ~100 to 150 euros, which is not acceptable for a 2600 eur computer. The rest (cpu, ram) is decent but still doesn't really warrant the price tag. It was good when it first launched.. that's about it.
- ireadzalot 14y agoI have the Macbook Pro that keeps making a constant white noise right after the machine boots up. The sound is loud enough when I am by myself that it totally distracts me. I have had 3 mac laptops before and this is the loudest one by bar. After I compared my machine with a close friend who has an exact machine (same late October last year generation), I realized that the machine had some issues. I took it to the apple store. They said they tested it and could not "hear" the noise. So they wouldn't do anything about it. Yet when I put my macbook pro next to any laptop, everyone can tell my laptop is the loudest. I have become one of their disappointed customers.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- nicholassmith 14y agoApple seems to have pulled back on the whole positive customer experience in store this year, I've had issues with marking below the display surface and they instantly said "not a defect, £350 please", except it looks like the tolerance on my Air is off. It's a shame, they're starting to reduce customer satisfaction in maximisation of profits, rather than increasing profits through customer satisfaction.
- kmfrk 14y agoMaybe it has to do with the new guy who was summarily booted from the company in a year? One can hope that Cook is course-correcting.
- nicholassmith 14y agoDon't know why you're getting down voted, it's very possible that his effect is still being felt.
- HSO 14y agoI had the exact same issue ("ghosting"), found it was an LG screen (which are known to have this issue), went to the Apple Store, and got it replaced under the guarantee. Just had to show the issue once, no further questions asked. Got it back with new screen after 3 days. This was in Switzerland. Would be surprised, though, if they had such drastically different replacement or repair policies for such an obvious issue.
- bitcartel 14y agoThe moral of the story? Hope that your Apple computer ships with Samsung components so you get a better display and a faster SSD.
- kmfrk 14y agoYou can dodge the SSD problem by buying a laptop with some specific SSD sizes. I did the same to dodge the issue, but I can't remember which worked. Anandtech has it covered, though.
- michael_miller 14y agoI can't help but think that the majority of comments here are the loud minority. Apple's products have had faults, I'll be the first to admit. But do we really think that even 5% of Apple's millions of customers are having issues with their purchases? If that were the case, we'd see class action lawsuits against the company, the NYTimes/WSJ covering Apple's shoddy manufacturing processes, and Apple's reputation taking an enormous hit. I've seen none of the above. To the contrary, articles covering Apple's manufacturing process, while critical of labor, seem to show a very well-managed ship, with little tolerance for errors or defects. I'm also taken aback by the harsh tone of the comments: "Ahh yes the unibody which is basically a fucking big short circuit, hence why mine caught fire." "Fuck everything about this." "it scares the shit out of me parting with that sort of cash and actually depending on it" It's a little disappointing to see these hyperbolic comments on a site I normally associate with an educated, smart, logically-thinking group of people.
- meaty 14y agoSeeing as you're picking my comments out, I'm rather passionate when it comes to this as I really don't want other people to go through the excruciating pain both mentally and financially that I have. Nor do I want people to be left totally in the mire by something which was marketed to me as a superior product. Life is about sharing experiences and these are valid experiences, albeit bad ones. To shy away from a warning and experience is illogical.
- fatbird 14y agoTo pretend that your experience is anything other than an outlier, given aggregated data to the contrary, is also illogical.
- jspthrowaway2 14y agoAh, so you're here to save all of us from Apple. The histrionic savior, loudly and annoyingly warning us of our impending doom while wearing a sandwich board with Apple crossed out on it. The comments in this thread are ridiculous. Yours, I think, set a large part of the tone. Get passionate about something that matters; the purchasing habits of people you are never going to meet are not your concern, and the reasons you buy or don't buy something are very different from mine.
- enraged_camel 14y agoApple haters have really come out of the woodwork today. The fact of the matter is that every first-gen product has had and will have issues regardless of the manufacturer. Apple just gets a lot of flak because they manufacture some of the best products out there and are very vocal about it. So the moment they make a slip, they get stoned by haters who were waiting in ambush. I, too, have had some bad experiences with a few Apple products I've owned. My first iPad had two dead pixels, and my first MBA had a keyboard key not work intermittently. The staff at the Apple Store next to my campus were absolute retards about both issues. Instead of writing an angry blog post about it, you know what I did? I took my defective items to another Apple store, where they got fixed/replaced immediately. Then again, I'm a practical person and am generally more interested in getting shit done. I understand some people are more interested in raising a ruckus for attention.
- gfodor 14y agoThe post has nothing to do with the fact that the screen was broken. Read it again.
- randomdata 14y agoThe fact of the matter is that every first-gen product has had and will have issues regardless of the manufacturer. Not just first-gen. My second generation iPad has the same problem.
- piyush_soni 14y agoAnd you somehow think you're a superior human being for not having 'made a ruckus' about it and going to another Apple store to fix your problem. Do you realize that by doing that you not only kept them being retard, but also promoted the culture that nothing happens to you when you act like that to your customers. You are actually paying for the most convenient service, but when you don't get it, you don't raise your voice and let the world be an ugly place. What if even the second store people were retards? You'd go to a third one (possibly in another city) right?
- chaz 14y agoI've bought a MBP every year for 6 years. I spend so much time on them that it's absolutely worth it to get increased performance and space. My current rMBP has 16GB RAM and 512 GB SSD -- more than enough. But I'll get the next rMBP for one reason: improved graphics performance. At the 1920x1200 resolution, even things as mundane as scrolling webpages is pretty low-FPS. Also, Google Chrome's aggressive GPU use seemed to be locking the whole OS about once a day, forcing a hard reboot. Aside from the locking, which now seems to have been resolved with 10.8.2 12C60, I'd say it's been worth it to have phenomenal screen resolution over my previous MBP. Nearly two whole browser windows side-by-side is terrific. I've seen mild ghosting, but I wouldn't say it's affected my day to day operation.
- untog 14y agoThis is what has put me off buying the 13" Retina- people were complaining about the 15, then they left the 13 with integrated graphics only. Can't bode well.
- modarts 14y agoThe UI performance was so abysmal for me that it didn't make up for the higher resolution. Spending 4k on the maxed out spec system, and having to deal with sub 20 fps while scrolling a web page is just ridiculous (and one of the main reasons I returned it.) Even the notes app would slow to a crawl when scrolling through large amounts of text and nearly stop responding. I'm really surprised that there haven't been more people complaining about this issue. I'm all for high resolution screens, but please, for the love of all that is holy, put a graphics card in there that is capable of pushing out those pixels!
- mehrzad 14y ago>even things as mundane as scrolling webpages is pretty low-FPS I mean, if you bought a $1300+ computer THIS YEAR shouldn't you expect better performance? OS X is pretty good, but I personally am tired of not being able to run intensive things without shelling out thousands.
- yardie 14y ago> As a loyal customer of apple for almost 11 years (iMac G4) my loyalty has been shaken. I really hate bloggers that do shit like this. Apple isn't an airline so bringing up your Apple mileage isn't helping. Really, 11 years and this one problem shakes your loyalty? Not their DRM, custom screws, custom cables, EOLing still powerful Macbooks, making free services paid (iTools), or the $1000 price bump when they introduced the G5 towers. I've been an Apple user for years (20+) and I have no loyalty to them whatsoever. Their products work for me and as long as they continue to work I'll continue to buy them. Also, a real Apple user would know to never buy a new version of their products. v1 is usually full of design and technical flaws. And each genius is different, keep asking or try another store until you get the satisfaction you demand. Apple Geniuses are given a surprising amount of latitude (more than most tech retail) so if you can convince just one it's a problem than for Apple it's a problem.
- Retric 14y agoThe goal is to show you don't already have a problem with the company in question. So, the issue must be really annoying.
- recoiledsnake 14y agoTrue, and if the blogger doesn't have that disclaimer, he will be dismissed as an Apple hater making a big fuss about nothing. The funny thing is that even with that disclaimer, some are still accusing him of nitpicking on Apple for page hits.
- yardie 14y agoThe issue is annoying to him because he should have known better. Apple always does A/B testing on their v1 products. Early MB Airs came with SSDs from 2 different suppliers, iPhone 3G came with glass from Corning and a few other suppliers. He has the write to complain and I hope he gets a solution, but the writing is just so damn...smug.
- doe88 14y agoI have a retina iPad (version 3) and since 2 months regularly I've got a full white screen when I turn it on and I have to make some voodoo incantations in order to make it disappear. So finally I sent it to Apple and they returned me without any repair after having concluded they could not reproduce this issue. So now I'm back with an iPad that is not working correctly half of the time. I'm disappointed at Apple, I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed. I'd live near an Apple store I'd brought the iPad to show them the issue but it's not the case.
- gnaffle 14y agoI think this has been The Apple Product Cycle for ages. 1) Random problem appears on 1st iteration product 2) Some are lucky and get it repaired, some are not. 3) Lots of petitions and screaming in forums 4) Apple silently changes their policy and gives some kind of extended warranty or replacement (optional) It's absolutely something Apple should improve, but it's certainly not new.
- ksec 14y agoI think there is two problems with Apple in this case. 1. The Services Level shown is subpar compared to what it is in US. Most of the time we see good services, free exchanges and repaired are actually stories in US. Outside US customers are treated like a second class citizen. 2. The guy bought AppleCare for Christ Sake. Why not just replace it when it is a known issues with LG display type.
- keeran 14y agoI had a similar dance with Apple tech staff. I took in a 27" iMac which had a faulty video card fan which made a horrible high pitched whine at low brightness settings. First visit they couldn't hear it (in loud store environment..), I was sent home. Second visit they agreed to take it in for testing - returned with a chipped display, scratched glass and a report that the problem didn't exist. Finally gave up with them and called Apple USA direct (from UK), complained to anyone who would listen. Was advised to take into a 3rd party repair supplier to confirm the problem existed. I went in with an audio spectrometer to visualise the problem, had a new iMac shipped the next day. It's hard to accept that they're no longer the specialist hardware supplier who treats every customer exceptionally well. Now we're just being farmed like any customer. Going hackintosh/linux for all future machines.
- vacri 14y agoIt's hard to accept that they're no longer the specialist hardware supplier who treats every customer exceptionally well. Now we're just being farmed like any customer. Why is this surprising? This is what you generally have to do when servicing the general public - Apple is no longer the niche specialist, but the gorilla.
- karolist 14y agoIf the whine correlated with what's displayed on the screen, for example, during mouse movement or when displaying high FPS content (you having said it was brightness related has me making this assumption), I think it was not the fan, but the so called "coil whine" which seems to be more apparent on ATI cards. On my desktop 7970 it's quite annoying, but considered normal. People fix it by applying nail polish on certain parts, but I'd rather play with headphones than mess up my 500 GBP kit in such a stupid way. I haven't had an nvidia whine on me, I assume all iMacs are equipped with ATIs now.
- intelliot 14y agoWhile I totally agree that Apple is handling this situation poorly, I'm even more worried about the lack of competition. Which of Apple's competitors offers better service? I can't think of one. Lenovo, HP, Dell? While I'd love Apple to be more generous, in a similar situation, in my experience, you're more likely to get left out to dry with any of their competitors.
- Apocryphon 14y agoIt'd be nice if these discussions actually came with large scale customer surveys to determine how the public as a whole feels. Perhaps Consumer Reports has looked into this. Right now all of this is just a lot of heat and emotion in both directions, coupled with stirring but useless anecdata.
- olgeni 14y agoAfter using Xcode for a full day I can see my immortal soul stuck in the desktop background. I avoid using iMacs with any kind of glue near the LCD for obvious reasons.
- arbuge 14y agoAh, $500B+ market cap company problems...
- ComputerGuru 14y agoThere is a new MacBook Retina clamshell that was pushed out a month before the 13" MBPr hit the shelves. I had mine replaced due to pretty intense ghosting after just 2 minutes, and when I went in to the Genius Bar, they found the clamshell part had a new model number (vs the one they had seen a week before). This one does not ghost.
- burriko 14y agoInteresting. I've had the exact same problem, and yet what happened to me was the best customer service I've ever experienced. I had bought a 15" retina MBP at launch, but only noticed the ghosting last month. After booking an appointment with a 'genius' online I arrived ready to argue my case. What actually happened was that the 'genius' agreed with me straight away that the ghosting was intolerable, and without doing any testing besides what I'd shown him recommended that they replace the screen. I left my MBP at the Apple Store and 3 hours later received a phone call to say that the repair had been completed and my machine was ready for collection. I don't think there's another computer supplier that:- A. I could book an appointment online to get my laptop looked at the same day. B. Actually has a local store with support staff. C. Could carry out the repair at said store, the very same day.
- stcredzero 14y ago> Interesting. I've had the exact same problem, and yet what happened to me was the best customer service I've ever experienced. Not all geniuses are created equal. Some of them are horrible. Some are great. It's like any other population of human beings. I've gotten both kinds.
- intellegacy 14y agoThat's nonsensical. Apple is marketing these staff as "geniuses". They're supposed to operate on a higher standard than the stereotypical brain-dead tech support; thus we should hold them to that standard. If Apple's standards are as low as those of other companies then they really don't deserve to earn the price premium they charge.
- stcredzero 14y ago> That's nonsensical. Wow, I chime in with a on anecdote supporting your position, coupled with a universal truism, and you say I'm promulgating nonsense. Take a chill pill.
- 14y ago
- nilsbunger 14y agoI use Apple products everywhere, partially because of the awesome retail and support experience -- in-person and by phone. If they screw that up, they will lose a big part of their "special-ness". It is so great to walk into an apple store when you have an issue and have someone who actually cares take a look and try to help you. And when you call them for order or tech support, you get someone clearly intelligent, caring, and who speaks English well. Where else can you get that great service and retail experience? Does a MSFT store do this?
- ricg 14y agoThanks for posting this. I thought about buying one before the end of the year, but now I'll wait for the second generation.
- zackmorris 14y agoI was an Apple certified repair technician for three years until 2010 and the ghosting issue is very real, I saw it on several displays. The best thing is to just keep calling them/going to an Apple store until they fix it for free. I agree that their customer service could use some work in this department.
- jad 14y agoI had the same problem with a rMBP. Apple replaced mine at the Apple Store even though I couldn't show them the problem while I was there. They even gave me the extra charging brick that came in the new machine's box. I have a friend with a base model rMBP who took it into the Apple Store, and they replaced his with the maxed out model because that's the only configuration they had left in stock.
- FireBeyond 14y ago"I have a friend with a base model rMBP who took it into the Apple Store, and they replaced his with the maxed out model because that's the only configuration they had left in stock." That surprised me - I was looking at an MBP purchase at an Apple Store (fairly large one, Tacoma WA). My options were only 4GB and various sizes of HDDs. They "did not" stock 8GB models, or SSD models. Not "were out of", but did not. They offered to install more memory, but at the (already extortionate Apple price) cost of the full 8GB (and give me 4GB back). I ended up buying a Vaio Z, and have been fantastically happy with it: Carbon Fiber body, 13" 2.5lb, with a better processor (Core i7 3612), better screen (1920x1080), better graphics, and 8GB of memory. Oh, and it was cheaper.
- tikhonj 14y agoI'm curious: do you use Linux on your Z-series? If so, how is it? Can you get the power dock thing to work?
- FireBeyond 14y agoLinux itself works fine - I installed Ubuntu 12.04 for a while, but am now back with Windows 8. To be honest, I never tried the power dock - at home I use my desktop, and only use my laptop away from the desk.
- jad 14y ago> They "did not" stock 8GB models, or SSD models. Not "were out of", but did not. This is a Retina MacBook Pro, not the "traditional" MacBook Pros with the optical drive. All Retina MacBook Pros have SSDs, so I'm not sure what models you were looking at. In any event, Apple does carry the fully maxed out Retina MacBook Pro in the stores. I know because I bought one myself.
- kevinalexbrown 14y agoMy perspective here is in no way Apple-specific, but I was reminded of something quite interesting in this story: if you pass a test and you still have problems, it probably means the test isn't good enough. Worse, passing a test doesn't magically change the state of the world and make these problems disappear. Turning to the customer and explaining, "there is no problem because you passed the test" does not alter the customer's experience at all: the ghosting still exists. This has nothing to do with whether or not Apple was smart to behave this way, or what the tolerances should be - I don't have a dog in this fight. Instead, I just wanted to highlight something I have to be reminded of from time to time, in different contexts: no one cares whether you think their problem is real, they care whether the problem still exists for them. Obvious point: This goes for more than just computer products.
- j-b 14y agoDon't forget the old adage that reality is 90% perception. If your customers "think" they have a problem, that in itself is an issue that needs to be dealt with. My customers don't care if their system issues are actually a problem in my software or not. "Not a problem" doesn't work if you want to keep paying customers around.
- cloverich 14y agoIn these types of situations, the cliche "The Customer is always right" is apt.
- personlurking 14y agoThis also works in personal relationships. If your SO feels hurt by something and you say "oh, grow up!", that doesn't help, even if you think some 'tough love' was needed/adequate. You have to deal with her as someone who is feeling hurt and until she perceives that you understand her, you'll just be sweeping the issue under the rug. I suppose this can be classified as listening but not really hearing.
- koide 14y ago
- bm1362 14y agoI used to work in AppleCare and would advise OP to simply try again with a different genius/agent. Apple will set some guidelines but ultimately it was up to the agent's discretion. I was there for antenna-gate and almost always tried to make the customer satisfied- although I would have to run through the tests to protect myself. Its a bureaucracy like anything else, some are more susceptible to empathy.
- crag 14y agoIt's not just Apple. It's all companies. When was the last time you tried to repair your washing machine under the warranty? Good luck. And it's software too. I can't remember the last time I installed a piece of software that wasn't filled with bugs. Some of them just glaring. Companies mantra, "Oh we'll fix that in an update". Six months down the road. Meanwhile they already have my money. This especially true with games. It's the way we do business now. "Sell now! Report earnings now!" And worry about the rest later. I mean who cares if out of 25 million customers 15,000 have bad monitors. Just make sure none of them write for the New York Times. :)
- piyush_soni 14y agoBut others are not charging huge amounts on the much touted "Apple Care".
- Steko 14y ago"others are not charging huge amounts" This is completely false.
- damian2000 14y agoBest experience I had recently was to repair a 3 month old Lenovo laptop under warranty. At purchase I'd stumped up the $50 dollars or so for onsite service. So within a few days of the call I had an IBM technician turn up at my workplace and swap out its motherboard, no questions asked.
- robomartin 14y agoAs this article pertains to screen issues how about we discuss this a little bit rather than engaging in senseless rants? The "ghosting" issue the article highlights is a known problem with certain types of LCD screens. With a caveat I'll say that LG LCD panels are known for these kinds of issues much more so than Samsung's. The caveat is that ALL OEM LCD manufacturers have issues, all of them. The other very important idea to understand is that Apple is just another OEM customer. Yes, they are huge. And, yes, they get stuff made to their specs. But, no, they can't alter the laws of physics or magically change the current state of the art. The same is true of the warts and issues in the various technologies they use. For example, someone mentioned Apple notebooks flaming. Well, I fly radio controlled planes and helicopters. They use LiPo battery packs. And you can bet they are stored in a metal container within fireproof bags and away from combustibles. Yes, LiPo battery cells can self-combust. This is not a secret. This is one reason I don't own any laptops with non-removable LiPo packs. How common are LiPo fires? How easy are they to start? They are very rare. If you go on YouTube you'd think that every other home is going up in flames due to LiPo fires. Not so. I actually blew-up a LiPo pack on purpose just to see what it would take and how big the fire might be. It actually took a lot for this three cell pack to go. Is Apple at fault for adopting a technology that has a minuscule probability of causing a fire? I'll leave that for someone else to answer. I am not really bothered by it. That said, I made my informed choice and simply don't buy laptops with non-removable LiPo packs. Back to displays. LG can have ghosting or image retention problems. Fire-up photoshop and make a pattern of black and white lines one pixel wide. Try horizontal and vertical arrangements. Try flashing that pattern on an off at different rates. This can trigger the issue depending on the underlying LCD technology. Are these tests fair? Not sure. Also, keep in mind that the test Apple is administering might come from the OEM panel manufacturer. In other words, this is what the manufacturer agreed to deliver to Apple as a performance guarantee. LG also has had some serious display discoloration issues. The early 23 inch aluminum Cinema display had a batch of horribly pink/magenta panels. Again, LG quality control problems. Samsung has had discoloration problems but they tend to be pretty good about image retention issues. An interesting fact is that an LCD pixel is able to retain a "charge" --if you will-- for a very long time. I've seen an LCD panel hold a full-color image for over a day after power was removed. This panel had been modified for this particular experiment in that all drive electronics were removed very quickly after power was removed. In other words, it was just a piece of "glass" sitting in front of a separately-powered light source. Very interesting stuff. I am not making excuses for Apple. If you pay that much for a laptop you want it to be perfect. I get it. I also get that it just won't happen. Too many moving parts. Here's a reality of consumer product engineering today: Companies (not just Apple, everyone) have to move very quickly. Nobody is going to have the time to test all corner cases for every component they use. Even if they did, they can't account for all corner cases. And, if you run a supply and manufacturing pipeline like Apple's, by the time the components arrive at the factory there's almost nothing you can do about it. So, yes, 100K "defective" displays might go out the door in the blink of an eye. And, another 100K might go out before you can even start to do anything about it. Component suppliers can shaft you and, frankly, the Korean LCD manufacturers are famous for this. Just talk to anyone in the OEM display business, it's brutal. Given that, I can only imagine that at some level it becomes a carefully considered financial decision. I hate to say it, but it isn't any different from a car manufacturer discovering that 0.01% of break pedals might be defective. They probably have a meeting with the lawyers and the accountants, review their insurance and determine what course of action to take. Sometimes that's the reality of business. I am not saying that this is what Apple is doing. I am just speaking in terms of general scenarios. I would suggest that when dealing with a large organization like Apple patience and persistence is the key. Keep at it. I think Apple, of all companies, still cares a lot. It might be harder today due to the sheer scale of the company, but if you don't loose faith you might just get to the right person and have your problem handled.
- adrian_pop 14y agoI bought a macbook pro late '11 from almost the same reasons: apple's good, shiny etc...sorry was. Even if some will call me a traitor, I am thinking to switch my iPhone for a Lumia :)
- hughw 14y agoI think the OP should apply for a patent on this test.
- Void_ 14y agoI'm so glad this issue is finally getting some attention. I returned my rMBP after experiencing the issue. It looks that getting a Samsung screen is a game of chance.
- wjamesg 14y agoDoesn't Apple have a reasonable no-questions-asked return policy? 14 days, or maybe 30? I wonder why the OP didn't take advantage.
- akeck 14y ago"The second mouse gets the cheese." - Since my iBook died multiple deaths via its BPGA socket, I've learned to buy rev. 2 or rev. 3 products for all my Apple purchases, when possible. It's consistent with my experience in avoiding x.0 software releases. It's really cool when a company treads new ground, but if you need reliability, it's best to let others test the first round.
- MartinCron 14y agoI've learned to buy rev. 2 or rev. 3 products for all my Apple purchases, when possible It's not just Apple products. A few years ago, I bought the first model year of a new car. That's not something I'll ever do again.
- akeck 14y agoYep. Toyota seems to release their Corollas in three year design cycles. I wonder what the distribution of 300 kilomile Corollas is across those years. My guess is that the 300 kilomile population is highest for the rev. 3 cars.
- mullingitover 14y agoIf my history with Apple support is any guide, good luck. My first Macbook Pro: - Laptop starts dying hard with >20% battery remaining 16 weeks or so after purchase - Get a replacement battery free due to recall - Replacement battery has same problem, turns out the replacement batteries have also been recalled! Lucky me. - Get a third replacement battery - Third replacement battery has the exact same problem. Contact Apple for warranty replacement. - Apple's classy solution: tough shit. All the replacement batteries only have a 90-day warranty. This of course is a replacement for a battery which has a problem where failure occurs around 120 days.
- kamjam 14y agoI like how you start off by saying "My first Macbook Pro", which implies you have purchased more since this initial issue?
- mullingitover 14y agoWhat can I say? They're the worst laptops, except for all the others. Seriously though, the second one has been a champion and I've used it for four years straight without a hiccup. It's a wash--I don't recommend Apple hardware for everyone, but I still prefer it myself.
- kamjam 14y agoWow. I would have dumped it and never used them again. I was having a bit of a "debate" with a friend of mine who bought the new MBP a few months ago. We are both C# developers so we have no real use of the Mac features, and he was running Windows 8 in VM. His laptop cost over 3 times more than my Dell XPS, which granted is thicker and the screen is not as high res etc, all features which I did not care about to be honest. His argument was that Mac had very good hardware and would last several years. Sure, but in that same time period if my laptop broke, I could afford to buy another 2 more and still be even... MBP is a bloody nice piece of kit though! :)
- 14y ago
- crististm 14y agoIt's very easy to fake the test and then say - look, your screen is within tolerance: - provide a black & white pattern for 3 minutes - provide a gray pattern _with compensation_ for the black&white for 1 minute If your gray compensation doesn't fall through the minute, you are within tolerance. If not, then the compensation was not enough and your screen is way off. Either way, your screen is toast. Since, by definition, only people with defective screens will waste time to go to service, only they will see the test and risk to see the compensation on a good screen.
- shocks 14y agoMy two year old £200 24" LCD showed no signs of ghosting at all.
- minitrollster 14y agoHow is that relevant?
- shocks 14y agoYou're right. It's not really. I just that fully expected it to fail, and was pleasantly suprised when it didn't.
- frozenport 14y agoApple is greedy? No way!
- hollandale 14y agoSee, this is exactly why I'd like a service to make feature requests (or slightly negative complaints), in order to rally a critical mass around it. This is not just a shameless plug for the app I just posted to HN (pvshapp.com), though I know it seems that way. I really think you've demonstrated perfectly why there needs to be a standardized platform for consumer product requests--as unlikely as improvements seem. What you've just done with this post is build 334 affirmations of a change that Apple needs to hear and make. Perhaps it's deeper, more pervasive than a single feature request, but it still highlights a dimension of the company Apple needs to pay attention to. It may seem futile, and it may seem like hundreds of these requests have been made directly through Apple's customer support website, but the fact is that it's not powerful persuasion unless you have public support. That's why PvshApp has 2 objectives: 1) Make it as easy as a Tweet to create a request, and 2) add a public audience to actualize support if there is any. For Apple, the value of this input is that they can condense customer feedback into one single request that they can focus on (if they so desire) OR here's a dumb idea: If Apple doesn't want to implement the feature, then who's stopping a third party producer from adding the feature? Seriously, it may seem like an IP nightmare at first, and I'm certainly no expert, but if a 3rd-party producer actually wanted to purchase the Apple products at full price, then augment them and sell the added features for a premium, who's to stop them? (This is a question, I'd love to know the answer!) Maybe Apple casts too large of a legal shadow, but I'm sure there are all sorts of other products for which users would be willing to pay a premium for augmented features.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- baddox 14y agoIsn't the fundamental problem here about communicating a product's quality guarantee to potential buyers? Apple never guarantees that you won't have a problem that annoys you or interrupts your work. Is there a detailed warranty for the computer that makes Apple liable to fix this specific problem? OP's problem obviously looks very real and quite annoying, but why should OP claim that Apple is obligated fix it? What if the problem was "the fan is too loud" or "I don't like the keyboard," or something more obviously frivolous like "I hate the OS X window manager" or "my PC games won't run on it"? Obviously, Apple won't fix those if the fan is working at normal volumes and the keyboard is completely within their specs.
- 0xC3 14y agoWithout a doubt it's true that Apple's support services fail on many levels. When corporations lose sight of innovation and mainly focus energy on profits these things are inevitable. I've dealt with many such issues and can relate to the frustrations you have experienced. I personally try and solve every such problem myself; an absolute last resort would be having to get 'help' from someone else before expiring all other possibilities. As far as your screen issues are concerned, It's quite common – and not specific to your particular display. I have a Cinema Display which does the exact same thing, and I've basically become immune to really noticing it much anymore. When I first became aware of it I tried just about everything to resolve the 'problem'. I was able to find a way to clear ghosting almost completely, and it's as simple as running a particular screensaver for the extended periods of time you're not using your system. The name of it is "LCD Scrub", and although I was skeptical it really does work. It doesn't get rid of the ghosting instantly, so you have to leave it running quite a while before you see any results. Good luck!
- papaver 14y agothank you for posting this!! looks like i ran into in just the knick of time. i just recently purchased a new macbook pro with a retina display for my brother how lives out of the country. will make sure i have a samsung display so he doesn't have ghosting issues or apple care issues in the future!
- arihant 14y agoApple has always been pretty much rigid about results of their tests during repairs or replacements. To be fair, I got almost every single part of my Macbook replaced after a surge incident that was caused internally - but I have never been able to negotiate even a repair of something trivial in cases where Apple tests fail. They do bend over backwards for helping us out - but their tests could be very unrealistic some times.
- adrianm 14y agoMy wife and I both own retina Macbook Pros and, luck would have it, I got one with a Samsung display and she got one with an LG display which exhibits the ghosting issue. She had mentioned it to me in passing before, but after reading this post I talked to her about it again and low and behold, the ghosting effect was very visible in her open Emacs buffers! So, irrationally empowered with the spirit of a wronged consumer thanks to this post, I immediately called Apple up and told them the issue. They're sending a box in the mail next day for us to send the laptop in for a screen replacement, free of charge of course because it's under warranty. All in all, it was a pretty painless customer service experience. I think it took all of five minutes, no exaggeration. There weren't really any questions asked, aside from "Where do you want us to send the box?". We've already ordered a temporary replacement computer for her while it's out for repair so she won't miss out on any work.
- soapdog 14y agoThis reminds me of HP. Eons ago at a shop, I purchased an HP IPAQ Palmtop. As we opened it inside the store to check, it had a blue dead pixel. The store clerk, promptly closed the box and picked another one for me. We opened it and boom, another dead pixel. We tried five IPAQs, they all had 1 dead pixel. He phoned HP and told them that. HP answered that 1 dead pixel was okay by their quality standard. The clerk made an ugly face and turned to me and said: "at least you can choose the location of your dead pixel from these five available choices".
- marshray 14y agoApple Bug #314159 - Display exhibits objectionable retina-like characteristics Steps to reproduce: 1. Stare at bright checkerboard pattern on screen for 1 minute without blinking. 2. Quickly look away at blank white wall. 3. Observe persistence of image.
- ruswick 14y agoThis is very problematic and disconcerting. However, I feel like the true reason that this gentleman is upset that he was disillusioned after his pristine opinion of Apple was ruined. That Apple would "take care" of him. This is not the case. Apple doesn't give the most perfunctory shit about you or your problems. The Genius Bar exists to serve purposes: to attract possible customers and to pacify people with broken products. They don't care about you personally. They do not care about your screen. They're a corporation and they care exclusively about money. They pursue this desire through standardization and implementation of bureaucracy. It sounded like the guy did the requisite test and in doing so upheld their obligation. Evidently, the test wasn't sufficient. That sucks, but Apple is not obligated to, nor are they willing to give to you, the benefit of the doubt. I'm sorry that you had to go through such an absurd tribulation, but Apple did not attempt to personally screw you. Apple is unequivocally in the wrong here, but butting such prodigious trust in a huge corporation makes you predisposed to come out of stuff like this inordinately contemptuous.
- fabrika 14y agoI've had similar issues with Cinema Displays in mid 2000-s.
- sasoon 14y agoI was just about to buy MacBook Pro Retina 15, 16GB, 512GB, when I found out about this ghosting problem. I could not take the risk of getting faulty screen (I would have buy it on trip to US). I am surprised that Apple is not doing anything about it. This problem is known for months
- ruswick 14y agoThis is very problematic and disconcerting. However, I feel like the true reason that this gentleman is upset that he was disillusioned after his pristine opinion of Apple was ruined. That Apple would "take care" of him. This is not the case. Apple doesn't give the most perfunctory shit about you or your problems. The Genius Bar exists to serve purposes: to attract possible customers and to pacify people with broken products. They don't care about you personally. They do not care about your screen. They're a corporation and they care exclusively about money. They pursue this desire through standardization and implementation of bureaucracy. It sounded like the guy did the requisite test and in doing so upheld their obligation. Evidently, the test wasn't sufficient. That sucks, but Apple is not obligated to, nor are they willing to give to you, the benefit of the doubt. I'm sorry that you had to go through such an absurd tribulation, but Apple did not attempt to personally screw you. Apple is unequivocally in the wrong here, but butting such prodigious trust in a huge corporation makes you predisposed to come out of stuff like this inordinately contemptuous.
- zwischenzug 14y agoMy perception of Apple has pretty much been like this guy's for 10 years now, ever since I shelled out 250GBP on a 20G iPod whose battery ran out just over a year later. I went to an Apple store and asked whether I could have the battery replaced, presumably for a price. "Just buy a new one, man!" was the response. I'd taken a gamble buying the iPod (I didn't have much money at the time), was prepared to pay to replace the replaceable part. The sheer arrogance and condescension of the response, and the assumption that Apple consumers had money to burn made my blood boil. I haven't bought anything Apple since.
- zanny 14y agoI have an iphone 3gs I stopped using this summer just due to the battery dying off. Wasn't going to pay the absurd rates Apple charges to get new batteries, especially when I could just get an iPhone 4 if I really wanted to for like $30 more. I still try to use the thing as a groupon screen. The Android groupon app requires a persistent network connection to maintain the barcode, the iphone version downloads the page entirely and you can keep reopening it without a connection just fine. One day I charged it for 6 hours from complete dead battery (I just let the battery die now rather than let it eat up electricity for no reason, I rarely use it) turn it on, put it in standby once I have the groupon loaded, and by the time I whip it out 3 hours later to show the barcode the screen blips on before the thing shuts off due to critical low battery. Had to sit in the parking lot for 15 minutes with a car charger to get the thing to hold the screen long enough to scan it. The phone is only 3 years old, and the battery doesn't last 3 hours in standby anymore.
- zwischenzug 14y agoI hear you man. I'm writing this on a cheap 5 year old netbook. Haven't replaced so much as a key. It was 250GBP then and has seen plenty of use.
- xenophanes 14y agoI had a different experience with apple. my 27" imac screen had some strong ghosting and i got it replaced near the end of the 3 years of apple care. i did this without ever visiting an apple store. when i first phoned them, i had some low quality photos of the screen and the guy said he wasn't sure if it was really a problem. i didn't want to take a 27" imac to a store b/c i have no car and apple wouldn't send me a box. so he gave me his email address and said i could contact him any time in the future with better photos. months later i got a new ios device with a better camera, took a larger number of pictures, emailed him the link, and he sent an on-site repair guy to give me a new screen. no problem. i think it depends on which customer service people you talk to. some are great, some are not so good. (the on site repair guy was great too, btw. he gave me a lesson on how to open up imacs, change stuff, and put them back together)
- theturtle32 14y agoI just thought I'd throw this out there... I've had this issue with every other IPS display I've ever used. I had three 21" HP IPS displays connected to a Mac Pro for a few years and all three of them exhibited tho exact same condition. The 23" Apple Cinema Displays we had at my university also did the same thing. I just chock it up to the IPS display technology, and assume all IPS displays do that to some degree. IPS is not known for having particularly great pixel twist times, and thats probably related. That said, I'd still use an IPS display in a heartbeat for the color accuracy. It's truly phenomenal. The after-image is annoying, but I'm happy to trade it for the color accuracy.
- telecuda 14y agoI returned 2 15" Retina MBPs in 3 weeks. First had dead pixels, second had a very squeaky spacebar, and now this third machine has the same ghosting effect you've mentioned. It's really not that much of an annoyance because it goes away quickly, but you do think they would have corrected it. To protect my MBP, I rock this classic black briefcase, which fits the laptop and cables perfectly: http://refer.ly/agTA http://refer.ly/agTA
- mitchty 14y agoI'm typing this on my second Macbook Pro retina screen (bought mine day of release). I've been through this "test" before. Both times I didn't have an issue demonstrating it. I'm not overly pleased that the retina displays apparently have an "acceptable" ghosting rate, my experiences haven't been as bad as this bloggers. Just to contrast the problems. That said, I agree the test is crap, the first time I tested it with a genius the test was rather vague as to what they were supposed to do. That and to be honest the JJ Abrams Star Trek lighting in the apple store didn't help when looking for ghosting in the store. All in all, its not much different from most of Apples first gen "revolutionary" products. This being the first real "retina" 15" display likely means teething issues. That said, no i'm not excited about being a beta tester. But whatever, the machine has made me despise low dpi screens.
- nsxwolf 14y agoApple has had all sorts of screen problems for many years now. Most customers don't notice them, but if you're keen to such things, you probably don't approach powering up a new Apple device with the joy that's supposed to come with it. You hold your breath and scan the screen with great anxiety for dead pixels, yellow stripes, pink and green splotches, uneven backlighting, ghosting, and light leakage.
- planetjones 14y agoTwo examples of bad service I've had from Apple recently: a) ordered an iPod nano. Apple missed the delivery date by nearly a week, because they had outsourced the delivery to some unreliable company in Glasgow. I had left the country by the time it arrived. b) I want to purchase a new 21.5" iMac. Store here in Zurich doesn't know when they'll have stock and suggest I phone each day. I said if I order online could I deliver it to the store. No was the answer. Then I said I would miss the delivery as I work - so asked which courier would be used and would I be able to visit their base to pick the iMac up. The guy in the store was unable to answer. I can't find anyone to contact via e-mail either. I don't see Apple as a customer focused company.
- apricot13 14y agoapple have had their day. Their going downhill FAST. I'm glad I got to experience apple when they were great, it was the tail end of their greatness but they created beautiful products and cared about the consumer. Now their all about the money. I recently had to book a genius appt and wait a week to get a new charger. w-t-f apple. In the old days any staff would try out your charger, realise it didn't work and then replace it (assuming it was under warrenty) now I have to spend £65 and then get a refund the week after. and they gave me ANOTHER new charger. Why not let me keep the one I paid for and not create more waste. already left the iphone fold but unfortunately osx (snow leopard at least) is a great OS :(
- tathagata 14y agoCan someone posts some pictures showing how the ghosting interferes with regular applications (Safari, iTunes, XCode etc)? Maybe it is something one can live with, especially considering how primitive the existing displays are compared to the retina display.
- pretoriusB 14y ago>I'm writing this because I think Apple may have changed. Really? How it's different from, say, the constantly failing logic boards on iBooks G3? Or overheating on MBP circa 2007. Or the problems with the G4 Cube. Or the green goo from G5 Mac Pros' liquid cooling. Shit happened with Apple before AND after Jobs. Especially when you buy a first generation model, like the Retina was. Wait it out till they iron the problems. I've had similar things happen to my PC machines. On them at a much bigger rate than in Apple gear. I had IBM "Death"star disk drives failing in 3 machines on my small company. I checked the webs, and they had issued a note that the disks were problematic and suggested not running them for more than 700 consecutive hours (!!!). And that's from IBM. Another time I had an AMD machine that overheated and stopped working (processor shutdown). Or a Toshiba laptop that lost 3 keys in 2 years and the DVD never wrote a disk correctly. The difference is, a company like Toshiba or Acer, ships less units and more models (and far more variations), so a faulty run at them affects, say, 50,000 people, whereas a faulty Apple run affects one or two million. Not to mention that most models from those companies rarely stray of the "proven and boring" road, so they get things like Retina, thunderbolt etc after all the quirks have been ironed out by more forward moving companies (Apple, sometimes Sony, etc).
- imran 14y agoWe all had a tiny intuition that apple is not going to be the same after Steve Jobs death. Apple is gone for good!
- cypher517 14y agorMBP here and yup ghosting issue