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> America’s current troubles are political polarization and ballooning deficits. American problem is one sided right wing radicalization, not polarization. If

by watwut 4mo ago

> America’s current troubles are political polarization and ballooning deficits. American problem is one sided right wing radicalization, not polarization. If left of center moved the the right even more, the issues would remain.

pembrook 4mo ago
I will call this Exhibit A in proving my point about polarization, thank you left-leaning person lacking in self-awareness. Now we just need a right-leaning person who lacks self awareness to offer a rebuttal to you and we can complete the picture.
- amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
  Are Americans really more polarized? I guess it depends on when you choose your baseline. It's certainly true that the political parties are more polarized, didn't used to be as ideological as they are now. To a large extent, the southern Democrats all left to join the Republican party, and the "compassionate conservatives" have mostly abandoned the Republican party. I expect with the split between MAGA and the America first people we are beginning to see another realignment.
  - 40four 4mo ago
    It’s an interesting question if we are more polarized now than at some point in the past. Hard to say, I wonder if there is some way to measure this? Maybe you could compare the amount of “undecided” voters over time. You always here people say one half of the country is red and the other half is blue, but in reality is probably more like 1/3 each red/blue and another 3rd who don’t subscribe to the dogma of either side and are fed up with the endless bickering between the two teams. One thing that’s for certain is the tech giants tech giants and news companies are attempting to manipulate us more than ever. It might feel like we’re more polarized that ever, but I think much of that is because it’s good for business, and they are shoving division in our faces on a daily basis. There is real evidence of this by an awesome project called “Tech Watch Project” (https://techwatchproject.org/ https://techwatchproject.org/). They have a data dashboard with real time charts at https://americasdigitalshield.com/ https://americasdigitalshield.com/. The idea is that tech giants are purposely trying to manipulate voters in the middle by feeding them more biased search results, notifications, et cetera. The thing about this, is that on close election they can literally swing elections the way they want them to go by manipulating undecided voters algorithms. In elections with wider margins it’s not going to have an effect, but in close races it only takes a point or two to get the desired result. This is a power they should not have and it needs to be talked about more.
rayiner 4mo ago
The U.S. is simply one of the developed countries where right wing populism has grown in response to mass immigration. If center-left folks flipped on immigration, the current right wing populism would collapse, just like happened in Denmark: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1mgkd93r4yo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1mgkd93r4yo
- SideburnsOfDoom 4mo ago
  > If center-left folks flipped on immigration, the current right wing populism would collapse, This theory is false, it does not work. It was tested to destruction in the UK this year and tl;dr: it's how to annoy everyone. When the centre-left party chases the right-wing, they disillusion their base and lose votes there, without gaining any significant number or right-wingers, who still prefer what they see as the "real thing". And the right-wingers are emboldened, not collapsed - they take one step back for every step taken towards them. The long version is here: https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/zbmp3_v2 https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/zbmp3_v2
  - rayiner 4mo ago
    It does work. It’s exactly what happened in Denmark: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1mgkd93r4y https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1mgkd93r4y. But you have to actually mean it and follow through on it. People need to believe the party has genuinely changed its position on the issue, instead of merely changing its messaging. Every thing Starmer said indicated he was soft on immigration and he took no meaningful steps to stop it and send refugees back.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 4mo ago
      Your article is 404 not found. Thank you for your opinion that "centre-left parties should actually be right-wing, it works, trust me". However, I do not share it and nor did the UK. Nor does the linked study, whose analysis and methods I find more persuasive than yours. > Every thing Starmer said indicated he was soft on immigration and he took no meaningful steps to stop it and send refugees back. Immigration into the UK is steeply down (1), the "took no meaningful steps" is just not true. But this is not how the topic is reported. I do believe that Home Secretary Mahmood truly does believe the hard-line things that she says (2) and that it is in no way winning any votes for Labour. Again, actual Labour voters are repulsed, and Reform voters are not attracted. This underscores my point that ceding this issue is not how centre-left parties win. I refer you to the study linked above as to how this backfired due to these perceptions. 1) https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyp1ekd584o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyp1ekd584o 2) https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/apr/21/shabana-mahmood-swears-at-hecklers-over-reform-uk-comments https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/apr/21/shabana-mah...
40four 4mo ago
If you think radicalization is only a problem on the side of Team Red and not so for Team Blue, I would urge you to reevaluate your opinion.
- red-iron-pine 4mo ago
  whatabout the other side!?!?!?!1

by watwut 4mo ago

pembrook 4mo ago

I will call this Exhibit A in proving my point about polarization, thank you left-leaning person lacking in self-awareness. Now we just need a right-leaning person who lacks self awareness to offer a rebuttal to you and we can complete the picture.

amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
Are Americans really more polarized? I guess it depends on when you choose your baseline. It's certainly true that the political parties are more polarized, didn't used to be as ideological as they are now. To a large extent, the southern Democrats all left to join the Republican party, and the "compassionate conservatives" have mostly abandoned the Republican party. I expect with the split between MAGA and the America first people we are beginning to see another realignment.
- 40four 4mo ago
  It’s an interesting question if we are more polarized now than at some point in the past. Hard to say, I wonder if there is some way to measure this? Maybe you could compare the amount of “undecided” voters over time. You always here people say one half of the country is red and the other half is blue, but in reality is probably more like 1/3 each red/blue and another 3rd who don’t subscribe to the dogma of either side and are fed up with the endless bickering between the two teams. One thing that’s for certain is the tech giants tech giants and news companies are attempting to manipulate us more than ever. It might feel like we’re more polarized that ever, but I think much of that is because it’s good for business, and they are shoving division in our faces on a daily basis. There is real evidence of this by an awesome project called “Tech Watch Project” (https://techwatchproject.org/ https://techwatchproject.org/). They have a data dashboard with real time charts at https://americasdigitalshield.com/ https://americasdigitalshield.com/. The idea is that tech giants are purposely trying to manipulate voters in the middle by feeding them more biased search results, notifications, et cetera. The thing about this, is that on close election they can literally swing elections the way they want them to go by manipulating undecided voters algorithms. In elections with wider margins it’s not going to have an effect, but in close races it only takes a point or two to get the desired result. This is a power they should not have and it needs to be talked about more.

rayiner 4mo ago

The U.S. is simply one of the developed countries where right wing populism has grown in response to mass immigration. If center-left folks flipped on immigration, the current right wing populism would collapse, just like happened in Denmark: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1mgkd93r4yo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1mgkd93r4yo

SideburnsOfDoom 4mo ago
> If center-left folks flipped on immigration, the current right wing populism would collapse, This theory is false, it does not work. It was tested to destruction in the UK this year and tl;dr: it's how to annoy everyone. When the centre-left party chases the right-wing, they disillusion their base and lose votes there, without gaining any significant number or right-wingers, who still prefer what they see as the "real thing". And the right-wingers are emboldened, not collapsed - they take one step back for every step taken towards them. The long version is here: https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/zbmp3_v2 https://osf.io/preprints/socarxiv/zbmp3_v2
- rayiner 4mo ago
  It does work. It’s exactly what happened in Denmark: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1mgkd93r4y https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1mgkd93r4y. But you have to actually mean it and follow through on it. People need to believe the party has genuinely changed its position on the issue, instead of merely changing its messaging. Every thing Starmer said indicated he was soft on immigration and he took no meaningful steps to stop it and send refugees back.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 4mo ago
    Your article is 404 not found. Thank you for your opinion that "centre-left parties should actually be right-wing, it works, trust me". However, I do not share it and nor did the UK. Nor does the linked study, whose analysis and methods I find more persuasive than yours. > Every thing Starmer said indicated he was soft on immigration and he took no meaningful steps to stop it and send refugees back. Immigration into the UK is steeply down (1), the "took no meaningful steps" is just not true. But this is not how the topic is reported. I do believe that Home Secretary Mahmood truly does believe the hard-line things that she says (2) and that it is in no way winning any votes for Labour. Again, actual Labour voters are repulsed, and Reform voters are not attracted. This underscores my point that ceding this issue is not how centre-left parties win. I refer you to the study linked above as to how this backfired due to these perceptions. 1) https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyp1ekd584o https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clyp1ekd584o 2) https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/apr/21/shabana-mahmood-swears-at-hecklers-over-reform-uk-comments https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2026/apr/21/shabana-mah...

40four 4mo ago

If you think radicalization is only a problem on the side of Team Red and not so for Team Blue, I would urge you to reevaluate your opinion.

red-iron-pine 4mo ago
whatabout the other side!?!?!?!1