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Madison Square Garden compiled a list of activists against facial recognition
- xrd 4mo agoPlease watch/listen to the Pablo Torre podcast about this one for additional context: https://www.pablo.show/p/inside-james-dolans-deep-state?utm_source=publication-search https://www.pablo.show/p/inside-james-dolans-deep-state?utm_... If you don't know, Pablo recently won a Pulitzer for his reporting on Steve Balmer's deal with Aspiration. If you listened only to mainstream media, you would think "Poor Steve, he was duped!" But, Pablo's reporting might change your opinion on that one. The incredible volume of high quality, well researched shows are so refreshing as an antidote to Joe Rogan and Theo Vaughn, who seem to come into every interview with just the right amount of ignorance to let every guest spew whatever propaganda they want. Pablo never lets that happen.
- adolph 4mo ago[flagged]
- GuinansEyebrows 4mo ago> This seems like a pretty normal thing to do sorry to the rest of the esteemed hn community for the low-effort reply, but... gross.
- zulux 4mo agoWe have a document detailing our competitors. So I guess I have to ask... Am I normal?
- ramon156 4mo agoDo those documents detail personal information, like face identification, family, etc.? Its usually about the company, not the individual
- chasd00 4mo agowhen i'm doing large presentations to prospective clients my company gives me what they call a "look book". This is a deck with information about every person in the audience all the way down to personality traits, triggering words/phrases, and negotiating style. I think it's pretty normal.
- LastTrain 4mo agoAre the potential clients aware that you have this? Are you willing to say who you are or who your company is or would that be embarrassing? I would absolutely not be your client.
- esseph 4mo ago> I think it's pretty normal. It has been normalized to you. It is not normal. If you ever showed up at my business with something like that, we would never meet again, and I would tell all of my peers, other businesses, etc. What you're doing is called PsyOps and it's a military function.
- GuinansEyebrows 4mo ago> when i'm doing large presentations to prospective clients my company gives me what they call a "look book". This is a deck with information about every person in the audience all the way down to personality traits, triggering words/phrases, and negotiating style. I think it's pretty normal. this is antisocial manipulative behavior normalized under the auspices of "good business".
- 1attice 4mo ago"Normal" here requires a time bound. I would say it's pretty abnormal if the window is "the last thirty years", and pretty normal if it's "the last thirty days." Because of the thing.
- wbl 4mo agoDolan is known for being extra petty.
- 2d8a875f-39a2-4 4mo agoYeah, not much to see here. Each of the activists named likely had a similar "dossier" on MSG and the Dolan guy. Knowledge workers are going to practise knowledge management. People use to do this with a Rolodex.
- Catloafdev 4mo agoCrazy to see this attempt to be normalized here. No. No, this is not normal.
- smallerize 4mo agoPeople are making a concerted effort to force your business to do something, and you don't want to know their names or how much influence they actually have?
- orlp 4mo agoActually, they're making an effort to force your business to not do something.
- ghurtado 4mo ago> People are making a concerted effort to force your business to do something, What a contrived way to spell "democracy"
- smallerize 4mo agoOk? It's democracy. You want to know who the people involved are and what influence they have.
- esseph 4mo ago> This seems like a pretty normal thing to do. That is NOT normal.
- darth_avocado 4mo agoNot the one to make this discourse Reddit like but I do find the username pretty unfortunate for the comment.
- iso1631 4mo agoWell you'd like to think that. I agree it shouldn't be normal. Half the tech industry thinks its fine though -- at least as long as it's not the government doing it.
- CamperBob2 4mo ago"I will make it normal." - Adolph
- newaccountman2 4mo ago"This seems like a pretty normal thing to do." - adolph (relevant username)
- robby_w_g 4mo agoI may be out of pocket here, but I think the Hacker News crowd of tech bros who spy on people for a living have a biased opinion on whether spying on people is normal
- ghurtado 4mo agoI'm not sure what's more concerning, a Nazi who's in the closet or one that is "out and proud"
- adolph 4mo agoHow is my French descent real life human name at all relevant? Yeah, I've gotten it from people with minds like your's for a long time, continually since grade school. Your comment illuminates more about you and your fellow noticers than me.
- afavour 4mo agoIt isn’t really a normal thing to do, no. Do you think they keep dossiers on everyone who complains about concession prices? About long lines to get in? Do you think people who have done either of those things get denied access to MSG? The fact that they’re this motivated to track people on this niche topic sounds alarm bells for me.
- adolph 4mo ago> Do you think they keep dossiers on everyone who complains about concession prices? That would be not unexpected. How else would an organization be able to tell the difference between someone who makes frequent and spurious complaints from a genuine feedback? [0] 0. https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2026/01/the-tyranny-of-the-complainers.html https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2026/01/th...
- LastTrain 4mo ago> This seems like a pretty normal thing to do. (Name checks out) yeah this is not a normal thing to do. Man we need mandatory ethics classes in school.
- mrguyorama 4mo agoMandatory ethics classes don't change the fact that asshole "Tech" bros don't pay attention to them. The people who said "This is bullshit" in my ethics class are the ones who went to work at facebook and such so they could be rich. They don't care that you get hurt in the process. Education can only improve a situation caused by lack of education. Most people doing shitty things aren't doing it because they don't know it's shitty. You see people here on HN making up rationalizations all the time because they know it's shitty. They just don't care that they cause harm. They were raised by people and society to think it's okay to harm someone for your own gain because that's basically what America has advertised for 50 years.
- adolph 4mo agoOk, name the ethic or ethics being violated by the behavior described in the article.
- joxdosba 4mo ago[flagged]
- nla 4mo agoIn NYC, you can trespass anyone from a private business at any time and for no reason at all. NY Penal Law § 140.00 says a person in premises open to the public is there with license/privilege unless they defy a lawful order not to enter or remain, personally communicated by the owner or another authorized person. So, in plain English: “You have to leave. You are not allowed back.” The owner does not need to say: “You have to leave because…” There was a ton of hoopla around this when Radio City and MSG trespassed lawyers that were suing the company and venues. Everyone was up in arms and nothing happened.
- dec0dedab0de 4mo agoi don’t think anyone is claiming it is illegal
- Spooky23 4mo agoIt’s billionaire people pushing the bounds of their enclosure, Jurassic Park style. The similar behavior in the west coast are the people who create various hoops to deny the public access to the shore. NYC grants significant concessions to developers in exchange for public access. It’s important to overreact and push back to every incursion into the public sphere as every incremental pushback of public benefit is cumulative over time. Manhattan in particular is a precious resource that is already largely a playground for the rich. Normal people used to live there.
- redsocksfan45 4mo ago[dead]
- cdrnsf 4mo agoOwnership's behavior is entirely too extreme and frequently crosses the line. https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/knicks-owner-extreme-measures-scared-174136095.html https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/knicks-owner-extreme-measu... https://futurism.com/artificial-intelligence/msg-facial-recognition-cameras https://futurism.com/artificial-intelligence/msg-facial-reco...
- emsign 4mo agoList of Honor. I'm grateful these brave people exist.
- afavour 4mo agoDebating this specific dossier ignores the larger issue, IMO: > MSG has deployed facial recognition technology since 2018 to identify people entering the venue. MSG’s facial recognition systems have been used to block entry to the stadium for all sorts of people. The list includes lawyers who work at law firms in litigation with MSG, even if they are not part of the litigation themselves; and potentially a man who once made a shirt that criticized Dolan. > The document was included in a 45GB cache of data hackers stole from MSG and posted online this month MSG management is not only misusing facial recognition data, they're also so inept as to store it insecurely in a way that violates their own customer's privacy. We need laws around this stuff. And in the meantime NYC should start playing hardball: if they're going to arbitrarily block people from entering MSG based on corporate vendetta then they need to lose their tax exemption (well, they should anyway...) https://reinventalbany.org/2023/02/watchdog-supports-state-bill-repealing-msgs-43m-year-property-tax-exemption/ https://reinventalbany.org/2023/02/watchdog-supports-state-b...
- gypsy_boots 4mo ago> MSG management is not only misusing facial recognition data This is making a huge assumption that the goal was ever safety.
- beepbopboopp 4mo agoThe stadium pays no property tax. Its a bummer some enterprising pro-bono lawyer hasnt bullied some clever points of leverage onto city subsidized projects that strip some of the god-like powers to deny access from these places. On a personal note, James Dolan seems universally disliked by staff, fans and regular people alike. It's almost impressive.
- citadel_melon 4mo agoSome lawyers MSG banned from the stadium tried to sue the venue. these lawyers argued that because MSG was not fully “open to the public” as their liquor licensed required, their liquor licensed should be revoked. The appellate court ultimately decided that a ticket is a “revocable license” and that while MSG needs to be “open to the public,” they don’t need to provide unrestricted access. Essentially, since night clubs can disallow/allow entrance based on arbitrary (non-protected) reasons — such as dress code, status, celebrity etc — yet night clubs have precedent of being allowed to keep their liquor licenses, using similar reasoning MSG’s bans are permissible. This decision seems reasonable to me; however, I hope the NYC political apparatus does political maneuvering to make MSG implement less Orwellian policies. I do not hold my breath but have residues of hope. Hard pivot and a hot take in the US of A, but since MSG is arguably a natural monopoly, it would be reasonable for NYC to “nationalize” MSG. NYC already has the expertise managing large and multifaceted infrastructure. The operation’s surplus value going back to NYC residents rather than unlikeable (and rent-seeking) James Dolan seems a politically defensible and attention-grabby position: the latter of which is increasingly important in our low-attention-span world. Lastly, James Dolan could be portrayed as a security threat to NYC constituents due to this facial recognition software: Americans and American economists tend to be more willing to nationalize things for the sake of national security. I look forward to seeing myself on MSG’s next leaked ministry of truth list (;
- Cider9986 4mo agoRelated: The Shocking Secrets of Madison Square Garden’s Surveillance Machine: https://www.wired.com/story/madison-square-garden-jim-dolan-surveillance-machine/ https://www.wired.com/story/madison-square-garden-jim-dolan-... Archive/paywall: https://archive.ph/iiczs https://archive.ph/iiczs Post on the MSG data breach: https://www.404media.co/hackers-publish-knicks-and-madison-square-garden-data-online/ https://www.404media.co/hackers-publish-knicks-and-madison-s... Archive/paywall: https://archive.ph/qh3UQ https://archive.ph/qh3UQ Shinyhunters website: http://shnyhntww34phqoa6dcgnvps2yu7dlwzmy5lkvejwjdo6z7bmgshzayd.onion/ http://shnyhntww34phqoa6dcgnvps2yu7dlwzmy5lkvejwjdo6z7bmgshz...
- SoftTalker 4mo agoI expect that every major venue is using this technology now. You'd be pretty naive to think otherwise. And keeping lists of people they find "interesting" just goes along with that -- otherwise what's the point?
- ghurtado 4mo agoThe biggest threat to a future society worth living in, is not the evil ones among us. Those are usually pretty visible and in the minority. It's the complacent ones we have to keep an eye on: they are absolutely everywhere.
- larkost 4mo agoPersonally I think that these conversations are focused on the wrong thing. Facial recognition stands to be a great tool in spotting "the bad guys" so that appropriate measures can be taken. For example preventing people who have repeatedly been convicted of violence ("hooliganism") from entering sports stadiums. The problem that is not being missed in the conversation about the technology is: who gets to decide who is excluded, how transparent to the need to be about this decision making process, and what is the course of appeals. Obviously the instance where MSG silently black-listed the lawyers representing their opponents in a court case is an obvious abuse that needs to be curbed. I would propose that there be tiers: smaller venues only get dinged when their behavior is obviously bad (no need for formal systems, let people sue if it becomes a problem), mid tier need to post their rules, and large companies are subject to audits and formal rules about when they are allowed to blacklist people.
- nulld3v 4mo ago> For example preventing people who have repeatedly been convicted of violence ("hooliganism") from entering sports stadiums. You should't need face recognition to do this (as it seems stadiums are already successful in banning people who haven't paid from entering the venue).
- Bud 4mo ago[dead]
- salawat 4mo agoNah. I don't buy it. If we don't trust our own Government with it, I don't think we can trust private corporations which are definitely facto extensions of the state by virtue of being legal fictions with it. Vigilance is the price of liberty, and I don't believe that that there is any reason to make that vigilance "easy" for those already more than capable of doing a reasonable job of it with means that don't create a giant liability of biometric data leaks for everyone else.
- codedokode 4mo agoNo. Processing biometric data like facial features must require person's consent. Individual's rights are more important than interests of capitalists. If someone is a hooligan they should be put in jail not denied entry.
- josefritzishere 4mo agoHow utterly dystopian
- 382hi 4mo agoarchived: https://nonogra.ph/madison-square-garden-made-dossier-on-activists-who-opposed-facial-recognition-06-23-2026 https://nonogra.ph/madison-square-garden-made-dossier-on-act...
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- crumpled 4mo agoI know this sounds like a conspiracy theory, so I'm not subscribing without more validation, BUT: I think MSG has the ability to ID every person at the Knicks game who booed for DJT, and you know how petty and sensitive that person can be. Remember when Hegseth invited all the generals into one big room for some reason? Some people think that it was to point cameras at their faces and do a bit of sentiment analysis. The tech is in place. Is there enough decency or the lack of enough motivation to make these scenarios unlikely? I'm not sure.
- DivingForGold 4mo agoI'm convinced that a dominate use of all the exploding construction of data centers will be to ramp up spying on citizens, likely in the name of "fighting terrorism". The same is being used to require I.D for every internet user in the name of fighting child porn. The AT&T case with technician Klein proves that the government will secretly and continuously violate the laws of the land to serve their own purposes.
- randyrand 4mo agoPresumably they could use a real-life human with good memory instead of computers. Would that solve anything?
- silexia 4mo agoAny private individual or organization has the right to Bar anyone else from their facility. Madison square garden is simply doing it at scale. I pretty much hate everything MSG is about, but they have a perfectly acceptable right to do this.