4 ms·

> Basically what russians are trying in Ukraine. Not sure it's the same thing. Russians want political and territorial control in Ukraine, not expelling Ukrain

> Basically what russians are trying in Ukraine. Not sure it's the same thing. Russians want political and territorial control in Ukraine, not expelling Ukrainians to resettle the place with "ethnic Russians". Israel wants to conquer the whole of Palestine (West Bank, Gaza, Jerusalem) to replace the native population with its own. There is no possible equal integration of Palestinians or their descendants into a Jewish state, not in a thousand years, and by design.

hsuduebc2 4mo ago
Well russians over the history resettled the native population numerous times, even resettle russians there. But the truth is they mostly want control for whatever reason they made up. Part of their propaganda is thet Ukrainians are basically confused russians so you got the point here. But I wouldn't be sure about your claim regarding Israel. Even now there are millions of Palestinians with Israel citizenship. I understand the deeply rooted animosity with hamas but I do not understand the whole point of this type of colonisation of west bank. I suppose it have something to do with their extreme religious part of goverment? You've had a point. Maybe it's more like Native Americans and colonizer type of situation.
- cicko 4mo ago
  Those Palestinians with Israeli citizenship are no longer allowed into Israel. That's my understanding after watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrmE-WiC4eA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrmE-WiC4eA
  - Throw4832226 4mo ago
    You’ve either misunderstood or the youtuber is lying to you.
    - jst1fthsdys 4mo ago
      Third option: it's true.
- throw310822 4mo ago
  > I do not understand the whole point of this type of colonisation of west bank Besides the obvious religious/ ideological motivation, there's also a simple matter of territory: Israel is a small country and the West Bank and Gaza have a lot of value, both for the country as a whole (more space for more people, more natural resources, nobody to share with) as well as commercial value- think developments, real estate, industrial and agricultural areas, seafront properties, etc. Very hard to keep your hands off this bounty, for decades, when the rest of the world basically allows you everything.
n4r9 4mo ago
> not expelling Ukrainians to resettle the place with "ethnic Russians" The similarity might be stronger than you suspect. Russia abducts and transports Ukrainian children to controlled territories [0], and actively encourages its own citizens to relocate to captured Ukrainian areas through economic incentives, subsidized housing, and aggressive long-term repopulation strategies. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz7g5xnvl2eo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz7g5xnvl2eo [1] https://understandingwar.org/research/russia-ukraine/russias-resettlement-strategy-in-occupied-ukraine/ https://understandingwar.org/research/russia-ukraine/russias... [[ Edit - added references in response to flagging ]]
- amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
  Kidnapping and moving children to new parents also counts as genocide under the convention on genocide.
  - JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
    Ukraine is my pet war. I really hope we don’t get caught in the genocide-debate tar pit as well. What’s happening is evil. That’s relatable, both in the problem and potential solutions. Whether it’s genocide under some international convention strikes me as a counterproductive distraction that replaces something horrifying with something boring.
jameshilliard 4mo ago
> There is no possible equal integration of Palestinians or their descendants into a Jewish state, not in a thousand years, and by design. About 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab so Palestinian integration into a state with a Jewish majority can work to a degree. The issue is that if the demographics were flipped it would be unlikely to work(i.e. basically all of Jewish history in Muslim majority countries).
- n4r9 4mo ago
  This webpage has a pretty good rundown on the status of Arab Israelis: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/what-know-about-arab-citiz... An example of implicit discrimination is Israel's ban on family unification with Palestinian spouses: https://www.adalah.org/en/law/view/511 https://www.adalah.org/en/law/view/511
  - throw3784377 4mo ago
    Now do Jews in Muslim countries. Or in areas under control of the PA.
    - n4r9 4mo ago
      Imagine you're a parent explaining to a kid why it's not right to punch other kids. Do you accept "but they punch other kids too" as an excuse?
      - throw3784377 4mo ago
        Imagine a parent introducing some special rules to protect a kid that’s being punched, like having them sit at the front, and the bullies start crying why they can’t sit in the front.
        n4r9 4mo ago
        The Israeli occupation of Palestine is nothing like a teacher sitting some kids at the front.
TiredOfLife 4mo ago
> not expelling Ukrainians to resettle the place with "ethnic Russians" That is literally what they are doing in occupied territories

hsuduebc2 4mo ago

Well russians over the history resettled the native population numerous times, even resettle russians there. But the truth is they mostly want control for whatever reason they made up. Part of their propaganda is thet Ukrainians are basically confused russians so you got the point here. But I wouldn't be sure about your claim regarding Israel. Even now there are millions of Palestinians with Israel citizenship. I understand the deeply rooted animosity with hamas but I do not understand the whole point of this type of colonisation of west bank. I suppose it have something to do with their extreme religious part of goverment? You've had a point. Maybe it's more like Native Americans and colonizer type of situation.

cicko 4mo ago
Those Palestinians with Israeli citizenship are no longer allowed into Israel. That's my understanding after watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrmE-WiC4eA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrmE-WiC4eA
- Throw4832226 4mo ago
  You’ve either misunderstood or the youtuber is lying to you.
  - jst1fthsdys 4mo ago
    Third option: it's true.
throw310822 4mo ago
> I do not understand the whole point of this type of colonisation of west bank Besides the obvious religious/ ideological motivation, there's also a simple matter of territory: Israel is a small country and the West Bank and Gaza have a lot of value, both for the country as a whole (more space for more people, more natural resources, nobody to share with) as well as commercial value- think developments, real estate, industrial and agricultural areas, seafront properties, etc. Very hard to keep your hands off this bounty, for decades, when the rest of the world basically allows you everything.

n4r9 4mo ago

> not expelling Ukrainians to resettle the place with "ethnic Russians" The similarity might be stronger than you suspect. Russia abducts and transports Ukrainian children to controlled territories [0], and actively encourages its own citizens to relocate to captured Ukrainian areas through economic incentives, subsidized housing, and aggressive long-term repopulation strategies. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz7g5xnvl2eo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cz7g5xnvl2eo [1] https://understandingwar.org/research/russia-ukraine/russias-resettlement-strategy-in-occupied-ukraine/ https://understandingwar.org/research/russia-ukraine/russias... [[ Edit - added references in response to flagging ]]

amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
Kidnapping and moving children to new parents also counts as genocide under the convention on genocide.
- JumpCrisscross 4mo ago
  Ukraine is my pet war. I really hope we don’t get caught in the genocide-debate tar pit as well. What’s happening is evil. That’s relatable, both in the problem and potential solutions. Whether it’s genocide under some international convention strikes me as a counterproductive distraction that replaces something horrifying with something boring.

jameshilliard 4mo ago

> There is no possible equal integration of Palestinians or their descendants into a Jewish state, not in a thousand years, and by design. About 20% of Israeli citizens are Arab so Palestinian integration into a state with a Jewish majority can work to a degree. The issue is that if the demographics were flipped it would be unlikely to work(i.e. basically all of Jewish history in Muslim majority countries).

n4r9 4mo ago
This webpage has a pretty good rundown on the status of Arab Israelis: https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/what-know-about-arab-citizens-israel https://www.cfr.org/backgrounders/what-know-about-arab-citiz... An example of implicit discrimination is Israel's ban on family unification with Palestinian spouses: https://www.adalah.org/en/law/view/511 https://www.adalah.org/en/law/view/511
- throw3784377 4mo ago
  Now do Jews in Muslim countries. Or in areas under control of the PA.
  - n4r9 4mo ago
    Imagine you're a parent explaining to a kid why it's not right to punch other kids. Do you accept "but they punch other kids too" as an excuse?
    - throw3784377 4mo ago
      Imagine a parent introducing some special rules to protect a kid that’s being punched, like having them sit at the front, and the bullies start crying why they can’t sit in the front.
      - n4r9 4mo ago
        The Israeli occupation of Palestine is nothing like a teacher sitting some kids at the front.

TiredOfLife 4mo ago

> not expelling Ukrainians to resettle the place with "ethnic Russians" That is literally what they are doing in occupied territories