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Cryptocurrency is very much a double edged sword, on one hand it enables people to transact monetary value bypassing for-profit operators such as western union

Cryptocurrency is very much a double edged sword, on one hand it enables people to transact monetary value bypassing for-profit operators such as western union and paypal as well as hinders corrupt government institutions from confiscating or otherwise devaluing what you own. Of course this also allows people with harmful intentions to do the same, bypass centralized systems that keep fraud in check, mitigate theft and whatnot. But all I know is that the only reason why some of my friends are able to work remotely from their country is crypto currency as that is the only way they're able to get paid without 30% to 40% being lost in fees as well as being stored in a currency that might lose a majority of its value overnight. They work real, productive swe jobs and earn enough to support not only themselves, but everyone around them as well making the place they live in a tiny bit better.

blenklo 4mo ago
And they also make their place they live and the rest of the planet a tiny bit worse due to the energy consumption of bitcoin, if they support bitcoin in any form even with lightning. A question though: How do they exchange their crypto into local fiat?
- skybrian 4mo ago
  They’re more likely to use a stablecoin and those don’t use Bitcoin.
  - blenklo 4mo ago
    I checked the internet and it seems el salvador uses bitcoin while in lebanon there is a mix of bitcoin + Lightning and Tether. Tether is investing in US Bonds but 10% seem to be Bitcoin.
    - skybrian 4mo ago
      The El Salvador government bought Bitcoin and promoted it, but the reports I’ve seen suggest that ordinary people and businesses don’t use it much.
- derangedHorse 4mo ago
  > they also make their place they live and the rest of the planet a tiny bit worse due to the energy consumption Energy consumption isn't the problem. It's how the energy is generated that is relevant to planetary health, and even then, whose to say the tradeoff isn't worth it. Crypto mining is estimated to take up 3% at most which means 97% is spent on other things. What makes this other 97% more worthy of this energy than crypto mining? The fact you don't see it as valuable? Also many mining operations take advantage of stranded energy, so energy that would go to waste if not used for on-site mining.
  - skybrian 4mo ago
    But switching from Bitcoin to something based on proof of work is always going to use less energy. Bitcoin was innovative when it was invented, but now it’s antique, inefficient tech that’s still being used because apparently fame overwhelms all technological considerations.
  - blenklo 4mo ago
    There is no stranded energy. Stranded energy is basically energy which should be used but its commercially a lot more efficient to do energy abitrage with a global finance market with a local energy market. Thats the biggest shit of bitcoin ever. And no 3% for provoding gambling and only a small amount of money value is a bad joke. 3% is not nothing. We increased the climate change rate per decade from 0.2 to 0.4 due to the amount of co2. Everything hurts us here. Bitcoin is responsible for a gas powerp lant in NYC being turned on again. It only mines bitcoins now. It creates just heat and co2. Bitcoin is responsible for power stealing across the planet.
    - derangedHorse 4mo ago
      > Stranded energy is basically energy which should be used but its commercially a lot more efficient to do energy abitrage with a global finance market with a local energy market. Incorrect. Stranded energy is energy that can’t be used and is wasted instead. > And no 3% for provoding gambling and only a small amount of money value is a bad joke. Thinking it only provides gambling is an opinion. One I disagree with. > Bitcoin is responsible for a gas powerp lant in NYC being turned on again. It only mines bitcoins now. It creates just heat and co2. Just like many things in life, Bitcoin the protocol is not responsible but the participants in the system. Regardless I don’t see a power plant being turned on as inherently a bad thing. You don’t see it as worth it but the people who pay for it do. Who are you to decide what an entity chooses to legally utilize their power for?
fn-mote 4mo ago
I’m ignorant of this but it seems wrong. 30% lost in fees?? Can they not manage to open a dollar-backed account somewhere? Also: > being stored in a currency that might lose a majority of its value overnight I for sure put crypto in this same category. “Stablecoin” or not.
- pjc50 4mo ago
  > Can they not manage to open a dollar-backed account somewhere? Outside the West, the answer is quite often "no". And trying to open an account in the US from outside will run into ID+residency requirements.
- fragmede 4mo ago
  > Can they not manage to open a dollar-backed account somewhere? It's harder, if not impossible, if you've been got the wrong set of papers, or are missing them. > this same category. “Stablecoin” or not. Like it or not, USDC and USDT do seem to actually be stable. They've been pegged to the dollar for a while now, with increased scrutiny.
- ozgrakkurt 4mo ago
  Yeah no, I it is really really bad where I live and it is similarly bad in places outaide of western financial network as far as I can understand. Another way to mitigate this scam is wise revolut etc. But they are also mostly western
- kakacik 4mo ago
  Sounds more like social security avoidance, or general taxation avoidance. Which country will take 30% cut from incoming foreign transaction? The highest combined fees I could find are for Sub-Saharan Africa and those are below 10%, supporting tax/social evasion claim. Could be completely legal but when folks don't provide details its often safe to assume the worse scenario when it comes to money, taxation and screwing the government.
  - lmz 4mo ago
    I believe some countries e.g. Cuba have different "official" vs "black market" exchange rates. A 30% difference wouldn't surprise me.
this_user 4mo ago
> it enables people to transact monetary value bypassing for-profit operators such as western union and paypal You are not even getting rid of that, you are just replacing them with a different set of middlemen in the crypto ecosystem who are demanding substantially higher fees than, say, a Wise does.
- sanex 4mo ago
  You're entirely wrong about that. A bitcoin transaction costs me pennies a wire transfer costs me $40.
  - ac29 4mo ago
    Most real financial transactions need to start and end in fiat though, and that's where the costs are
    - sanex 4mo ago
      That depends though. I recently bought a car in south America and they were willing to take USDT through Bianance Pay. As a US person I don't have access to that so ended up having to wire transfer. I don't know why they wouldn't accept a Bitcoin deposit which they could have easily converted to tether but I suspect it's just a momentum and learning curve thing.
    - himata4113 4mo ago
      There are pretty big markets in these countries because of crypto and even then it never reaches the native currency a lot of the market uses either us dollar or euro. Businesses are glad to accept dollars and euros for most bigger purchases especially p2p marketplaces. The myth that you have to off-ramp crypto is no longer true.
- zmgsabst 4mo ago
  CashApp doesn’t seem any different than Wise; I routinely use both — including CashApp for crypto.
- 4mo ago
thinkingtoilet 4mo ago
>bypassing for-profit operators such as western union and paypal as well as hinders corrupt government institutions from confiscating or otherwise devaluing what you own There are transaction fees so you're still paying someone. And the it's not government taking what you own, it's scammers!
tootie 4mo ago
Crypto has utterly failed as a currency. In that regard it's been dead for over a decade. If btc or eth were currency they'd be considered dead by deflationary spiral which is more or less what every economist predicted from the start. Some people got rich by investing but getting rich off of currency speculation is generally awful for people who rely on that currency to live. Crypto has been a success the same way The Room was a successful movie.
- joquarky 4mo ago
  And at least The Room didn't enable ransomware.
  - himata4113 4mo ago
    it would be cash shipments if crypto didn't exist or some other form of monetary value transfer.

blenklo 4mo ago

And they also make their place they live and the rest of the planet a tiny bit worse due to the energy consumption of bitcoin, if they support bitcoin in any form even with lightning. A question though: How do they exchange their crypto into local fiat?

skybrian 4mo ago
They’re more likely to use a stablecoin and those don’t use Bitcoin.
- blenklo 4mo ago
  I checked the internet and it seems el salvador uses bitcoin while in lebanon there is a mix of bitcoin + Lightning and Tether. Tether is investing in US Bonds but 10% seem to be Bitcoin.
  - skybrian 4mo ago
    The El Salvador government bought Bitcoin and promoted it, but the reports I’ve seen suggest that ordinary people and businesses don’t use it much.
derangedHorse 4mo ago
> they also make their place they live and the rest of the planet a tiny bit worse due to the energy consumption Energy consumption isn't the problem. It's how the energy is generated that is relevant to planetary health, and even then, whose to say the tradeoff isn't worth it. Crypto mining is estimated to take up 3% at most which means 97% is spent on other things. What makes this other 97% more worthy of this energy than crypto mining? The fact you don't see it as valuable? Also many mining operations take advantage of stranded energy, so energy that would go to waste if not used for on-site mining.
- skybrian 4mo ago
  But switching from Bitcoin to something based on proof of work is always going to use less energy. Bitcoin was innovative when it was invented, but now it’s antique, inefficient tech that’s still being used because apparently fame overwhelms all technological considerations.
- blenklo 4mo ago
  There is no stranded energy. Stranded energy is basically energy which should be used but its commercially a lot more efficient to do energy abitrage with a global finance market with a local energy market. Thats the biggest shit of bitcoin ever. And no 3% for provoding gambling and only a small amount of money value is a bad joke. 3% is not nothing. We increased the climate change rate per decade from 0.2 to 0.4 due to the amount of co2. Everything hurts us here. Bitcoin is responsible for a gas powerp lant in NYC being turned on again. It only mines bitcoins now. It creates just heat and co2. Bitcoin is responsible for power stealing across the planet.
  - derangedHorse 4mo ago
    > Stranded energy is basically energy which should be used but its commercially a lot more efficient to do energy abitrage with a global finance market with a local energy market. Incorrect. Stranded energy is energy that can’t be used and is wasted instead. > And no 3% for provoding gambling and only a small amount of money value is a bad joke. Thinking it only provides gambling is an opinion. One I disagree with. > Bitcoin is responsible for a gas powerp lant in NYC being turned on again. It only mines bitcoins now. It creates just heat and co2. Just like many things in life, Bitcoin the protocol is not responsible but the participants in the system. Regardless I don’t see a power plant being turned on as inherently a bad thing. You don’t see it as worth it but the people who pay for it do. Who are you to decide what an entity chooses to legally utilize their power for?

fn-mote 4mo ago

I’m ignorant of this but it seems wrong. 30% lost in fees?? Can they not manage to open a dollar-backed account somewhere? Also: > being stored in a currency that might lose a majority of its value overnight I for sure put crypto in this same category. “Stablecoin” or not.

pjc50 4mo ago
> Can they not manage to open a dollar-backed account somewhere? Outside the West, the answer is quite often "no". And trying to open an account in the US from outside will run into ID+residency requirements.
fragmede 4mo ago
> Can they not manage to open a dollar-backed account somewhere? It's harder, if not impossible, if you've been got the wrong set of papers, or are missing them. > this same category. “Stablecoin” or not. Like it or not, USDC and USDT do seem to actually be stable. They've been pegged to the dollar for a while now, with increased scrutiny.
ozgrakkurt 4mo ago
Yeah no, I it is really really bad where I live and it is similarly bad in places outaide of western financial network as far as I can understand. Another way to mitigate this scam is wise revolut etc. But they are also mostly western
kakacik 4mo ago
Sounds more like social security avoidance, or general taxation avoidance. Which country will take 30% cut from incoming foreign transaction? The highest combined fees I could find are for Sub-Saharan Africa and those are below 10%, supporting tax/social evasion claim. Could be completely legal but when folks don't provide details its often safe to assume the worse scenario when it comes to money, taxation and screwing the government.
- lmz 4mo ago
  I believe some countries e.g. Cuba have different "official" vs "black market" exchange rates. A 30% difference wouldn't surprise me.

this_user 4mo ago

> it enables people to transact monetary value bypassing for-profit operators such as western union and paypal You are not even getting rid of that, you are just replacing them with a different set of middlemen in the crypto ecosystem who are demanding substantially higher fees than, say, a Wise does.

sanex 4mo ago
You're entirely wrong about that. A bitcoin transaction costs me pennies a wire transfer costs me $40.
- ac29 4mo ago
  Most real financial transactions need to start and end in fiat though, and that's where the costs are
  - sanex 4mo ago
    That depends though. I recently bought a car in south America and they were willing to take USDT through Bianance Pay. As a US person I don't have access to that so ended up having to wire transfer. I don't know why they wouldn't accept a Bitcoin deposit which they could have easily converted to tether but I suspect it's just a momentum and learning curve thing.
  - himata4113 4mo ago
    There are pretty big markets in these countries because of crypto and even then it never reaches the native currency a lot of the market uses either us dollar or euro. Businesses are glad to accept dollars and euros for most bigger purchases especially p2p marketplaces. The myth that you have to off-ramp crypto is no longer true.
zmgsabst 4mo ago
CashApp doesn’t seem any different than Wise; I routinely use both — including CashApp for crypto.
4mo ago

thinkingtoilet 4mo ago

>bypassing for-profit operators such as western union and paypal as well as hinders corrupt government institutions from confiscating or otherwise devaluing what you own There are transaction fees so you're still paying someone. And the it's not government taking what you own, it's scammers!

tootie 4mo ago

Crypto has utterly failed as a currency. In that regard it's been dead for over a decade. If btc or eth were currency they'd be considered dead by deflationary spiral which is more or less what every economist predicted from the start. Some people got rich by investing but getting rich off of currency speculation is generally awful for people who rely on that currency to live. Crypto has been a success the same way The Room was a successful movie.

joquarky 4mo ago
And at least The Room didn't enable ransomware.
- himata4113 4mo ago
  it would be cash shipments if crypto didn't exist or some other form of monetary value transfer.