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> And turns out Virgina Tech does a bunch of helmet impact testing and maintains a ranking list https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/ https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/
by mft_ 4mo ago
> And turns out Virgina Tech does a bunch of helmet impact testing and maintains a ranking list https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/ https://www.helmet.beam.vt.edu/
Thanks for sharing. Interesting to see my Giro (with MIPS) has... 3 stars. Hmmm.
- carabiner 4mo agoI'm pretty convinced mips is just marketing. Hair will do the same thing. That's why in rock climbing world, petzl hasn't even bothered with it when they're usually very forward thinking about their designs (first company to do side impact testing).
- snovv_crash 4mo agoExactly. Hair and scalp. Evolution already made a MIPS system. The thing lacking it was the test dummies that Virginia Tech uses, so now they recommend we put it in helmets too.
- Scoundreller 4mo agoOr the ground being low traction: dusty/dirt/wet. Harder to control what you land on, but will diminish MIPS’ ROI in many situations.
- mmooss 4mo agoIf ruling out risks by a priori is a solution, why wear a helmet at all? Maybe you won't hit your head when you fall. Maybe you'll land in water or on a satin pillow (low friction).
- Scoundreller 4mo agoNot ruling out anything but pointing out MIPS’ benefits will be poorer than portrayed in the lab in many realistic situations. Sure, buy all the safety equipment you can afford that has any possible benefit. What’s better: a $15 more expensive bike light or a $15 more expensive helmet with MIPS?
- mmooss 4mo ago> MIPS’ benefits will be poorer than portrayed in the lab in many realistic situations How are they testing it in the lab? How do concussions work in realistic situations (is there one way?)? What is the distribution of realistic situations? Maybe the benefits are better in realistic situations; maybe the lab tests are more aggressive than reality or the results are interpreted conservatively (because scientists spending years on something might have thought of a 30-second hot take), ...
- neves 4mo agoFor $15, everybody should buy both. It's a non issue
- arrowleaf 4mo agoNot having my hair and scalp act as the MIPS system is worth the $20 extra to me.
- loeg 4mo agoIs it worth helmets that are 100g heavier and don't breathe as well, though?
- hgomersall 4mo agoI think they will already act like that, MIPS or not. Stick a helmet on your head, now wiggle it. It moves really quite a bit, unless you like to wear it so tight you get a headache.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- mmooss 4mo ago> Hair will do the same thing. VA Tech (and others, IIRC) has years of empirical tests that show otherwise. What is your comment based on? Edit: In fact, if I understand your analysis, humans won't get concussions at all.
- loeg 4mo agoVA's test dummy doesn't have hair.
- mmooss 4mo agoThat's not a basis for your claim.
- loeg 4mo agoWhat? GP's claim is that hair provides a similar benefit. VA is simply not testing heads with hair on them -- their tests can't "show otherwise" (your claim).
- mmooss 4mo ago> GP's claim is that hair provides a similar benefit. GP provides no evidence for that. VA Tech not addressing it (if it's true that they don't - I have no reason to believe it) is not evidence. VA Tech also doesn't address my theory that microscopic super-intelligent aliens affect helmet response.
- carabiner 4mo agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
- throwaway173738 4mo agoI’m bald on top
- kaikai 4mo agoThank you for this comment. I paid a little extra to get a helmet with mips but didn’t even think about my (long) hair serving the same function.
- necubi 4mo agoMIPS is increasingly common in rock helmets. Black Diamond (anecdotally the most common brand I see in the US) now has it in their higher end models, and Mammut as well.
- kakacik 4mo agoJust checked my BD climbing helmet I bought few years ago (seems like Mips Capitan model based on design). Considered these things a gimmick (any technical equipment bought has list of various tech used within, I generally ignore that by default since I have no idea what each means), happy to see move for more safety in this area. Even small steps matter. I will climb in big heat wave we have here in Europe now this evening, more sweaty = more slippery on polished rock crags, risk is always not as far as we like to think.
- carabiner 4mo agoPetzl makes better helmets than BD. They pioneered the ultralight foam kind with the sirocco that everyone (including BD and Mammut) copied. Yet they still don't care about MIPS.
- hgomersall 4mo agoIt does feel like a thing that has never been properly validated. It's a good market to push this in because, well, why wouldn't you spend 10% more to be a little bit safer?
- Scoundreller 4mo agoMIPS is a liner that makes the same helmet a bit better. A crappy helmet with MIPS is a slightly less crappy helmet that may still be worse than a great non-MIPS helmet. Like upgrading a 1960 motor vehicle death trap’s 2 point seat belts to 3 point. It’ll help, but it’s still a death trap.
- Rebelgecko 4mo agoFwiw they changed their ranking system a year or two ago in a way that moved a bunch of formerly 5 star helmets to 3 stars. Too many helmets hit the old five star threshold, so to differentiate it's now based on relative performance (the x% best helmets get 5 stars) instead of static thresholds.