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I think it's also a way to reduce funding to universities (which are politically disfavored), since other things like arbitrary reductions to indirect costs did

I think it's also a way to reduce funding to universities (which are politically disfavored), since other things like arbitrary reductions to indirect costs didn't work. It also defies both congressional will in the appropriations bill (which is directorate-specific) and of course the whole charter and mandate of NSF, from Vannevar Bush's original case for it.

TimorousBestie 3mo ago
Yeah, this is all well-attested. It’s so weird. Presumably the conservatives still want the US to be a superpower, which presumably includes high-tech capabilities like global power projection, missile defense, and persistent space operations. At the same time they seemingly want a Cultural Revolution-like decimation of intellectuals. I don’t see how they believe they can attain both objectives at once.
- hilariously 3mo ago
  [flagged]
  - tennfown 3mo ago
    [flagged]
- solid_fuel 3mo ago
  > Presumably the conservatives still want the US to be a superpower, I used to think that too, but it seems evident the current crop of conservatives is only interested in hurting people they don’t like and funneling money into the pockets of oligarchs. It’s pretty evident now that none of this is being done out of patriotism or a genuine desire to improve America.
  - rayiner 3mo ago
    > hurting people they don’t like > genuine desire to improve America We think these are related, just like you do. The difference is that you assume that hurting billionaires will improve America while we assume that hurting NGOs and postmodernist academics will do so. And that difference results from the fact that you think you can construct a new society without billionaires and industrialists that nonetheless offers the prosperity we have today, and more. By contrast, we think the way to get more prosperity is to do more of the things that made America prosperous in the past.
    - solid_fuel 3mo ago
      > We think these are related, just like you do. Oh, we're all well aware that you think hurting people is the only way to improve the country. > The difference is that you assume that hurting billionaires will improve America while we assume that hurting NGOs and postmodernist academics will do so. Don't you know that lying is a sin? You can't even define "postmodernist". No. I've heard this screeching noise you're making many times but it always boils down to the same truth: you don't believe in hurting "postmodernist academics", you believe in hurting people who aren't straight, white, christians.
      - rayiner 3mo ago
        [flagged]
        solid_fuel 3mo ago
        > How about “people who bring intersectional personal attributes into a discussion of science funding?” Yeah, that's what I figured - you are in fact completely incapable of defining "postmodernist". I don't think anyone is surprised that you have no idea what you're talking about though, it's pretty obvious that you're just a really emotionally fragile guy who is having some big feelings about minorities existing. By the way, I know there's no god, because if there was you would have spontaneously imploded from the sheer irony of whining about bringing “intersectional personal attributes into a discussion of science funding” in a post-DOGE world.
- monknomo 3mo ago
  [flagged]
- exe34 3mo ago
  > Presumably the conservatives still want the US to be a superpower Why would you presume that? Isn't enough that they get rich and powerful as compared to others around them?
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
- SoftTalker 3mo ago
  There's at least a subset of them who do not. They want isolationism. Almost a juche sort of mentality. Stop propping up Europe/NATO. "No more foreign wars" was their rallying point. The Iran war really brought them to the surface, a lot of them were very unhappy with the Trump administration about that.
  - magicalist 3mo ago
    > The Iran war really brought them to the surface, a lot of them were very unhappy with the Trump administration about that. So, like...Thomas Massie and Rand Paul? There were only four republicans in the House and four in the Senate to vote to limit war powers, and I don't think you could claim Murkowski or Collins are isolationists. Or did you mean this subset was "very unhappy" in like a completely impotent and meaningless way, but they'll have been 100% against it six months or 2.5 or 4.5 years from now?
    - TimorousBestie 3mo ago
      > Or did you mean this subset was "very unhappy" in like a completely impotent and meaningless way? That’s how I understood it, yes. So unhappy that they’ll write him in for a third term.
      - SoftTalker 3mo ago
        In our system we generally have the choice between two candidates. You can be "very unhappy" with one but still think he is a better option than the other one.
        TimorousBestie 3mo ago
        I think you successfully dodged the joke.
- rayiner 3mo ago
  The assumption is that the people in the universities who can build missiles can pretty easily be distinguished from those who can’t.
  - TimorousBestie 3mo ago
    Anyone with a bare understanding of the history of science would understand how bad of an assumption that is. You specifically have the much harder problem of explaining how you intend to maintain tech dominance with a Cultural Revolution and also without any foreigners or any of the many various groups of citizens you find personally undesirable.
    - rayiner 3mo ago
      I’m pretty sure we can maintain technological dominance with the O-visa and E-visa programs.
      - khriss 3mo ago
        The implicit assumption is that the people who would genuinely quality for the O visa would want to come to the US. That claim generally held in the past, however it has not been very true in the recent years. Yes, you will get people who will 'qualify' for those visas, but the bar will and already is getting steadily lower.
        rayiner 3mo ago
        Apart from a COVID blip, O1 visa petitions have been steadily growing. They’re up 57% since 2013. Long-term, I suspect skilled immigration will trend down. But for positive reasons: as India and China develop, more people will make the choice to stay home rather than come to America. Same reason we see little emigration from Korea and Japan anymore. It’s a good change, just like it was a good change when our post-WWII edge was reduced after Europe rebuilt. But the attraction of American capital likely still will bring the superstars here.
      - 3mo ago

TimorousBestie 3mo ago

Yeah, this is all well-attested. It’s so weird. Presumably the conservatives still want the US to be a superpower, which presumably includes high-tech capabilities like global power projection, missile defense, and persistent space operations. At the same time they seemingly want a Cultural Revolution-like decimation of intellectuals. I don’t see how they believe they can attain both objectives at once.

hilariously 3mo ago
[flagged]
- tennfown 3mo ago
  [flagged]
solid_fuel 3mo ago
> Presumably the conservatives still want the US to be a superpower, I used to think that too, but it seems evident the current crop of conservatives is only interested in hurting people they don’t like and funneling money into the pockets of oligarchs. It’s pretty evident now that none of this is being done out of patriotism or a genuine desire to improve America.
- rayiner 3mo ago
  > hurting people they don’t like > genuine desire to improve America We think these are related, just like you do. The difference is that you assume that hurting billionaires will improve America while we assume that hurting NGOs and postmodernist academics will do so. And that difference results from the fact that you think you can construct a new society without billionaires and industrialists that nonetheless offers the prosperity we have today, and more. By contrast, we think the way to get more prosperity is to do more of the things that made America prosperous in the past.
  - solid_fuel 3mo ago
    > We think these are related, just like you do. Oh, we're all well aware that you think hurting people is the only way to improve the country. > The difference is that you assume that hurting billionaires will improve America while we assume that hurting NGOs and postmodernist academics will do so. Don't you know that lying is a sin? You can't even define "postmodernist". No. I've heard this screeching noise you're making many times but it always boils down to the same truth: you don't believe in hurting "postmodernist academics", you believe in hurting people who aren't straight, white, christians.
    - rayiner 3mo ago
      [flagged]
      - solid_fuel 3mo ago
        > How about “people who bring intersectional personal attributes into a discussion of science funding?” Yeah, that's what I figured - you are in fact completely incapable of defining "postmodernist". I don't think anyone is surprised that you have no idea what you're talking about though, it's pretty obvious that you're just a really emotionally fragile guy who is having some big feelings about minorities existing. By the way, I know there's no god, because if there was you would have spontaneously imploded from the sheer irony of whining about bringing “intersectional personal attributes into a discussion of science funding” in a post-DOGE world.
monknomo 3mo ago
[flagged]
exe34 3mo ago
> Presumably the conservatives still want the US to be a superpower Why would you presume that? Isn't enough that they get rich and powerful as compared to others around them?
- deleted 3mo ago
  [deleted]
SoftTalker 3mo ago
There's at least a subset of them who do not. They want isolationism. Almost a juche sort of mentality. Stop propping up Europe/NATO. "No more foreign wars" was their rallying point. The Iran war really brought them to the surface, a lot of them were very unhappy with the Trump administration about that.
- magicalist 3mo ago
  > The Iran war really brought them to the surface, a lot of them were very unhappy with the Trump administration about that. So, like...Thomas Massie and Rand Paul? There were only four republicans in the House and four in the Senate to vote to limit war powers, and I don't think you could claim Murkowski or Collins are isolationists. Or did you mean this subset was "very unhappy" in like a completely impotent and meaningless way, but they'll have been 100% against it six months or 2.5 or 4.5 years from now?
  - TimorousBestie 3mo ago
    > Or did you mean this subset was "very unhappy" in like a completely impotent and meaningless way? That’s how I understood it, yes. So unhappy that they’ll write him in for a third term.
    - SoftTalker 3mo ago
      In our system we generally have the choice between two candidates. You can be "very unhappy" with one but still think he is a better option than the other one.
      - TimorousBestie 3mo ago
        I think you successfully dodged the joke.
rayiner 3mo ago
The assumption is that the people in the universities who can build missiles can pretty easily be distinguished from those who can’t.
- TimorousBestie 3mo ago
  Anyone with a bare understanding of the history of science would understand how bad of an assumption that is. You specifically have the much harder problem of explaining how you intend to maintain tech dominance with a Cultural Revolution and also without any foreigners or any of the many various groups of citizens you find personally undesirable.
  - rayiner 3mo ago
    I’m pretty sure we can maintain technological dominance with the O-visa and E-visa programs.
    - khriss 3mo ago
      The implicit assumption is that the people who would genuinely quality for the O visa would want to come to the US. That claim generally held in the past, however it has not been very true in the recent years. Yes, you will get people who will 'qualify' for those visas, but the bar will and already is getting steadily lower.
      - rayiner 3mo ago
        Apart from a COVID blip, O1 visa petitions have been steadily growing. They’re up 57% since 2013. Long-term, I suspect skilled immigration will trend down. But for positive reasons: as India and China develop, more people will make the choice to stay home rather than come to America. Same reason we see little emigration from Korea and Japan anymore. It’s a good change, just like it was a good change when our post-WWII edge was reduced after Europe rebuilt. But the attraction of American capital likely still will bring the superstars here.
    - 3mo ago