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The subversion of scientific expertise to replace it with podcasters and political sycophants is one of the biggest disasters of the current years. The very co

The subversion of scientific expertise to replace it with podcasters and political sycophants is one of the biggest disasters of the current years. The very concept of merit has been destroyed and replaced with judgement calls on celebrity (necessary for leadership role) and subservience to the political whims of the last 15 minutes (and you had better switch in the next 15 minutes or you're out).

mmooss 4mo ago
> The subversion of scientific expertise to replace it with podcasters and political sycophants > The very concept of merit has been destroyed ... It's the subversion of truth. I think that way of saying it is more accurate, addresses the consequences, and is less occluded by jargon: People care about truth; 'scientific expertise' may seem esoteric to most people. I think HN is frequently part of that process: Merit - expertise, actual trials and evidence - is replaced both by sensational too-clever hot takes / takedowns, and by political/social advocacy. Most threads begin with a takedown, a 2 minute drive-by from an amatuer, often of years of research by someone spending their life studying the matter. For some issues, we all know what side many will take before you know any facts or evidence. These comments are normalized and given greater credibility than the OP and than valuable comments. How is that any different than the things we criticize (other than the FDA's subversion of truth [EDIT:] is far more consequential [sorry, I didn't finish that sentence!]) There are valuable comments to be found; maybe that's one difference, but I'm wonder how the signal-to-noise compares with other forums.
- rho138 4mo ago
  So you don’t agree with their point and saw fit to draw out a response that fingerpoints at the the side that’s over the intolerance of the non-scientifically bound members of society? Great high horse fam.
- epistasis 4mo ago
  How is discussion on HN different from the leadership levels at FDA? Very different. Decisions with enormous health implications, enormous financial implications, are made at FDA. At HN, most people are here to learn, here to understand more. Vinay Prasad is a fraud, completely unfit for the leadership role he was placed into, making baffling and arbitrary decisions on his own, overturning those with far more experience, knowledge and expertise. If a HN comment gets things wrong, a few people might be misinformed, if they are credulous enough to not double check things. When the FDA makes decisions like they have been making, thousands to millions of peoples' lives are worse off, and billions in capital is wasted. Discussion forums of all sorts are incredibly valuable, even when they get things wrong. I have lots of complaints about the overhyping of, say, CRISPR, especially on HN, but whatever, it's a far far higher signal-to-noise than a random person I meet around town. Mention you work on drug development for big pharma to the random person and they think you're evil, at least HN is less likely to have that basic misconception.
  - naturalmovement 4mo ago
    Imagine being able to shut down discussion at the FDA because a few anonymous randos pushed a "flag" button when they saw something they disagreed with.
    - sieabahlpark 4mo ago
      [dead]
    - dlev_pika 4mo ago
      Apparently, the ‘fuck your feelings’ crowd DOES care about some ‘feelings’
      - epistasis 4mo ago
        They were actually clear about this, it's only your feelings that don't matter, not feelings in general. In their minds there are two classes of people, and all of politics and law is about establishing the hierarchy. For the in group, the law is meant to protect and not bind, and the out group for which the law exists to bind but not protect. It's clear in the language about "criminals" too. Actual convictions and clear corruption in the in group politicians? That's A-OK. An immigrant that is showing up for an official hearing? Time to be whisked away and treated with cruel and unusual punishment, whether or not their bureaucratic forms were filled out perfectly. (In particular I'm thinking of the immigration raid where South Korean professionals were helping to set up a battery factory and treated with chains as if they were violent criminals)
  - Zhenya 4mo ago
    I’m curious why you claim he’s a fraud, I just learned about him from this thread.
    - epistasis 4mo ago
      Prasad, to the extent he had a reputation before, was for critiquing the scientific practice as inadequate, which would hope that he'd bring the idea of rigor to his stint at the FDA. Instead, we see quite the opposite: - This baffling Moderna decision, which is so bad that many in the industry assumed it was from a failed bribe solicitation - Linked in this article is the "truly evil" decision requiring sham brain surgery in the placebo arm for a Huntington Disease trial https://arstechnica.com/health/2026/06/truly-evil-fda-rejection-of-gene-therapy-overturned-after-trump-official-ousted/ https://arstechnica.com/health/2026/06/truly-evil-fda-reject... - Prasad holding a defamatory PR event about the company producing the HD candidate treatment, and only talking "on background" to hide his identity, which is sleazy and unethical "The criticism apparently struck a nerve with Prasad. The FDA held a press briefing later Thursday in which an unnamed “senior FDA official”—who identified himself as a hematology-oncologist—launched into a diatribe against UniQure, saying its “failed therapy” was supported by “distorted and manipulated” data. As for Woodcock’s comments, the official said he “expect[s] better” from her." https://arstechnica.com/health/2026/03/trumps-divisive-fda-vaccine-regulator-self-destructs-will-exit-agency-again/ https://arstechnica.com/health/2026/03/trumps-divisive-fda-v... - His first ouster and reinstatement last year, over a unilateral Duchenne muscular dystrophy decision, severely lacking in scientific rigor and analysis - Lied on his CV about being on a highly prestigious council he was not on (The Cancer Letter is not a random YouTube channel, it's high quality cancer research journalism) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCASAb7J-LE&t=41 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCASAb7J-LE&t=41 As is often the case with such contrarians and critics, their own critiques apply most aptly to themselves.
nfw2 4mo ago
One thing that's particularly frustrating about all this is that any conversation with the growing contingency of distrustful people has been made very difficult by what I would call poor, avoidable, and illiberal decisions made by the federal government during COVID. (TBF, decisions during a crisis are always hard.) Lab leak theory was dismissed and actively suppressed. Inflated claims were made a priori about absolute vaccine efficacy that any responsible researcher who have not made. Moreover, the trouble with trying to shut down real disinformation, eg claims that vaccines were more dangerous than the virus, is that many people will view any sort of paternalistic behavior by the government, especially around speech, with suspicion. ("Why do they care so much about what I say? They must be hiding something") In the age of social media, I think the study of public health needs to consider more seriously the effects of viral psychology. The irrationality and stubbornness of people needs to be expected when planning public policy.
- datsci_est_2015 4mo ago
  Having lived through it myself, I found the government’s actions extremely mild when compared to something like what ICE has been up to. Zero people were directly killed by authorities because of Covid noncompliance. From my perspective, it’s hysteria borne out of the difference in requirements for urban health policy vs. rural health policy, and the fact that rural people quite often travel through urban areas (e.g. airports). Talk to anyone from Wyoming and ask what Covid was like during the worst days, and then talk to an ER doctor who worked in New York City. Cynically, I want to blame it on the absurd lack of empathy of rural Americans and a complete lack of ability to imagine day-to-day lifestyles that do not match their own. Were there a few scandals? For sure, I will not deny that. But I have the distinct urge to invent time travel for the hemmers, hawers, and devil’s advocates and transport them to New York Presbyterian in April of 2020. Edit: I also have to credit rightwing media, of course, for capitalizing on the opportunity to manufacture a wedge issue that every American had an armchair opinion of. Chicken and egg, of course, but media ghouls will be media ghouls.
  - _DeadFred_ 4mo ago
    I was more middle of the road. I live in a rural red red state. Then during COVID people would yell at my dying of cancer mother on chemo for wearing a mask while grocery shopping. Eventually the stores had to set special hours so people like her could shop without harassment. My politics have been greatly impacted. I was shown there is no compassionate conservative, that is just cover for 'fuck everyone who is not me and my in group'. Or if there are compassionate conservatives, they don't care to step in an impose compassion, so they might as well not exist. My mom died afraid to go shopping in her own community because she would be verbally abused. My politics are never going back.
aussieguy1234 4mo ago
[flagged]
- thecompilr 4mo ago
  That might be true for some of them, but unfortunately I know a few anti vaxxers who also happen to be atheists. They just believe all the various conspiracy theories about vaccines.
  - aussieguy1234 4mo ago
    If you were able to trace some of these conspiracy theories to their source, you'd find some of these religious folks behind them. Any category of person could potentially fall for them, including atheists.
MaxHoppersGhost 4mo ago
“Scientific expertise” was already sold out to politics as we saw during covid. The further degradation to podcast bros is the cherry on top.
- dgacmu 4mo ago
  Both VRBPAC and CDC's ACIP did remarkably good work during the pandemic under enormous pressure - what specific complaints do you have? They got safe and effective vaccines out there fast, did a really reasonable job of balancing the cost benefit w.r.t. side effects of both j&j's and the somewhat elevated myo/pericarditis risk from moderna's vaccine in young men, etc. Be specific? (I have complaints - I thought Dr. Meissner was wrongheaded about opposing allowing EUA to extend to pediatric populations. But the committee as a whole functioned well and balanced the urgency of the situation with the need for voluminous data.)
- AlexeyBelov 4mo ago
  Only rightoids thought science was "too political" (as they do with many things). Normal people didn't start this discourse.
SecretDreams 4mo ago
Really reminds me of the Russia leadership portrayals in Chernobyl.
- inigyou 4mo ago
  It's basically Lysenkoism
  - qlte 4mo ago
    And, following the similar pattern of “accusation in a mirror”, is the exact same thing they accused scientists of doing during the previous administration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusation_in_a_mirror?wprov=sfti1# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusation_in_a_mirror?wprov=s... Which (conveniently) both justifies aggressively “fighting back” against the fictitious conspiracy and waters down any criticism as a “both sides” partisanship thing that can be cynically dismissed as business as usual in DC instead of a seismic shift in federal scientific policy to conform to arbitrary political mandates.
- SlightlyLeftPad 4mo ago
  That’s exactly what it is.
deepspace 4mo ago
It is not a disaster. It is a part of carefully orchestrated attack on Western democracies by enemy states.
- nearlyepic 4mo ago
  This stupidity is home-grown. Blaming "enemy states" is deflection - the quicker we understand that the quicker we can get to fixing this mess.
  - vlovich123 4mo ago
    I don’t know. Seems like the Orban government was funneling an awful lot of money to CPAC. You know, one of Putin’s closest allies. Not sure it’s genuinely home grown.
    - rurp 4mo ago
      Certainly both are happening, to one degree or another. Hostile influence campaigns are having some effect but I would give homegrown the most credit. Given the general bumbling of the Putin/Orban governments of the world I doubt they are overly competent in this one area. Most of the physical sabotage operations that have been uncovered in Europe weren't very sophisticated; even if they are still dangerous. Americans are incredibly pissed about all sorts of things, both valid and absurd, and have a long track record of picking bad options as a fix.
    - tremon 4mo ago
      The amount of "foreign" money in US politics is absolutely dwarfed by the amount of "local business" money. The US government is being dismantled by its corporations, many of which are home grown.
- tpm 4mo ago
  it's not enemy states, it's a reactionary attack from within.
iririririr 4mo ago
(i must preface that this block was 100% trying to extract payment, like it was documented some coubtries did even during covid, but) even the lead researcher of mrna vaccines before covid said she would not consider mrna vaccines safes outside of the covid emergency. and this study focus on effectiveness, not side effects. so while turning away from science for politics is as bad as pushing it irresponsible for commercialization.

mmooss 4mo ago

> The subversion of scientific expertise to replace it with podcasters and political sycophants > The very concept of merit has been destroyed ... It's the subversion of truth. I think that way of saying it is more accurate, addresses the consequences, and is less occluded by jargon: People care about truth; 'scientific expertise' may seem esoteric to most people. I think HN is frequently part of that process: Merit - expertise, actual trials and evidence - is replaced both by sensational too-clever hot takes / takedowns, and by political/social advocacy. Most threads begin with a takedown, a 2 minute drive-by from an amatuer, often of years of research by someone spending their life studying the matter. For some issues, we all know what side many will take before you know any facts or evidence. These comments are normalized and given greater credibility than the OP and than valuable comments. How is that any different than the things we criticize (other than the FDA's subversion of truth [EDIT:] is far more consequential [sorry, I didn't finish that sentence!]) There are valuable comments to be found; maybe that's one difference, but I'm wonder how the signal-to-noise compares with other forums.

rho138 4mo ago
So you don’t agree with their point and saw fit to draw out a response that fingerpoints at the the side that’s over the intolerance of the non-scientifically bound members of society? Great high horse fam.
epistasis 4mo ago
How is discussion on HN different from the leadership levels at FDA? Very different. Decisions with enormous health implications, enormous financial implications, are made at FDA. At HN, most people are here to learn, here to understand more. Vinay Prasad is a fraud, completely unfit for the leadership role he was placed into, making baffling and arbitrary decisions on his own, overturning those with far more experience, knowledge and expertise. If a HN comment gets things wrong, a few people might be misinformed, if they are credulous enough to not double check things. When the FDA makes decisions like they have been making, thousands to millions of peoples' lives are worse off, and billions in capital is wasted. Discussion forums of all sorts are incredibly valuable, even when they get things wrong. I have lots of complaints about the overhyping of, say, CRISPR, especially on HN, but whatever, it's a far far higher signal-to-noise than a random person I meet around town. Mention you work on drug development for big pharma to the random person and they think you're evil, at least HN is less likely to have that basic misconception.
- naturalmovement 4mo ago
  Imagine being able to shut down discussion at the FDA because a few anonymous randos pushed a "flag" button when they saw something they disagreed with.
  - sieabahlpark 4mo ago
    [dead]
  - dlev_pika 4mo ago
    Apparently, the ‘fuck your feelings’ crowd DOES care about some ‘feelings’
    - epistasis 4mo ago
      They were actually clear about this, it's only your feelings that don't matter, not feelings in general. In their minds there are two classes of people, and all of politics and law is about establishing the hierarchy. For the in group, the law is meant to protect and not bind, and the out group for which the law exists to bind but not protect. It's clear in the language about "criminals" too. Actual convictions and clear corruption in the in group politicians? That's A-OK. An immigrant that is showing up for an official hearing? Time to be whisked away and treated with cruel and unusual punishment, whether or not their bureaucratic forms were filled out perfectly. (In particular I'm thinking of the immigration raid where South Korean professionals were helping to set up a battery factory and treated with chains as if they were violent criminals)
- Zhenya 4mo ago
  I’m curious why you claim he’s a fraud, I just learned about him from this thread.
  - epistasis 4mo ago
    Prasad, to the extent he had a reputation before, was for critiquing the scientific practice as inadequate, which would hope that he'd bring the idea of rigor to his stint at the FDA. Instead, we see quite the opposite: - This baffling Moderna decision, which is so bad that many in the industry assumed it was from a failed bribe solicitation - Linked in this article is the "truly evil" decision requiring sham brain surgery in the placebo arm for a Huntington Disease trial https://arstechnica.com/health/2026/06/truly-evil-fda-rejection-of-gene-therapy-overturned-after-trump-official-ousted/ https://arstechnica.com/health/2026/06/truly-evil-fda-reject... - Prasad holding a defamatory PR event about the company producing the HD candidate treatment, and only talking "on background" to hide his identity, which is sleazy and unethical "The criticism apparently struck a nerve with Prasad. The FDA held a press briefing later Thursday in which an unnamed “senior FDA official”—who identified himself as a hematology-oncologist—launched into a diatribe against UniQure, saying its “failed therapy” was supported by “distorted and manipulated” data. As for Woodcock’s comments, the official said he “expect[s] better” from her." https://arstechnica.com/health/2026/03/trumps-divisive-fda-vaccine-regulator-self-destructs-will-exit-agency-again/ https://arstechnica.com/health/2026/03/trumps-divisive-fda-v... - His first ouster and reinstatement last year, over a unilateral Duchenne muscular dystrophy decision, severely lacking in scientific rigor and analysis - Lied on his CV about being on a highly prestigious council he was not on (The Cancer Letter is not a random YouTube channel, it's high quality cancer research journalism) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCASAb7J-LE&t=41 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCASAb7J-LE&t=41 As is often the case with such contrarians and critics, their own critiques apply most aptly to themselves.

nfw2 4mo ago

One thing that's particularly frustrating about all this is that any conversation with the growing contingency of distrustful people has been made very difficult by what I would call poor, avoidable, and illiberal decisions made by the federal government during COVID. (TBF, decisions during a crisis are always hard.) Lab leak theory was dismissed and actively suppressed. Inflated claims were made a priori about absolute vaccine efficacy that any responsible researcher who have not made. Moreover, the trouble with trying to shut down real disinformation, eg claims that vaccines were more dangerous than the virus, is that many people will view any sort of paternalistic behavior by the government, especially around speech, with suspicion. ("Why do they care so much about what I say? They must be hiding something") In the age of social media, I think the study of public health needs to consider more seriously the effects of viral psychology. The irrationality and stubbornness of people needs to be expected when planning public policy.

datsci_est_2015 4mo ago
Having lived through it myself, I found the government’s actions extremely mild when compared to something like what ICE has been up to. Zero people were directly killed by authorities because of Covid noncompliance. From my perspective, it’s hysteria borne out of the difference in requirements for urban health policy vs. rural health policy, and the fact that rural people quite often travel through urban areas (e.g. airports). Talk to anyone from Wyoming and ask what Covid was like during the worst days, and then talk to an ER doctor who worked in New York City. Cynically, I want to blame it on the absurd lack of empathy of rural Americans and a complete lack of ability to imagine day-to-day lifestyles that do not match their own. Were there a few scandals? For sure, I will not deny that. But I have the distinct urge to invent time travel for the hemmers, hawers, and devil’s advocates and transport them to New York Presbyterian in April of 2020. Edit: I also have to credit rightwing media, of course, for capitalizing on the opportunity to manufacture a wedge issue that every American had an armchair opinion of. Chicken and egg, of course, but media ghouls will be media ghouls.
- _DeadFred_ 4mo ago
  I was more middle of the road. I live in a rural red red state. Then during COVID people would yell at my dying of cancer mother on chemo for wearing a mask while grocery shopping. Eventually the stores had to set special hours so people like her could shop without harassment. My politics have been greatly impacted. I was shown there is no compassionate conservative, that is just cover for 'fuck everyone who is not me and my in group'. Or if there are compassionate conservatives, they don't care to step in an impose compassion, so they might as well not exist. My mom died afraid to go shopping in her own community because she would be verbally abused. My politics are never going back.

aussieguy1234 4mo ago

[flagged]

thecompilr 4mo ago
That might be true for some of them, but unfortunately I know a few anti vaxxers who also happen to be atheists. They just believe all the various conspiracy theories about vaccines.
- aussieguy1234 4mo ago
  If you were able to trace some of these conspiracy theories to their source, you'd find some of these religious folks behind them. Any category of person could potentially fall for them, including atheists.

MaxHoppersGhost 4mo ago

“Scientific expertise” was already sold out to politics as we saw during covid. The further degradation to podcast bros is the cherry on top.

dgacmu 4mo ago
Both VRBPAC and CDC's ACIP did remarkably good work during the pandemic under enormous pressure - what specific complaints do you have? They got safe and effective vaccines out there fast, did a really reasonable job of balancing the cost benefit w.r.t. side effects of both j&j's and the somewhat elevated myo/pericarditis risk from moderna's vaccine in young men, etc. Be specific? (I have complaints - I thought Dr. Meissner was wrongheaded about opposing allowing EUA to extend to pediatric populations. But the committee as a whole functioned well and balanced the urgency of the situation with the need for voluminous data.)
AlexeyBelov 4mo ago
Only rightoids thought science was "too political" (as they do with many things). Normal people didn't start this discourse.

SecretDreams 4mo ago

Really reminds me of the Russia leadership portrayals in Chernobyl.

inigyou 4mo ago
It's basically Lysenkoism
- qlte 4mo ago
  And, following the similar pattern of “accusation in a mirror”, is the exact same thing they accused scientists of doing during the previous administration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusation_in_a_mirror?wprov=sfti1# https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusation_in_a_mirror?wprov=s... Which (conveniently) both justifies aggressively “fighting back” against the fictitious conspiracy and waters down any criticism as a “both sides” partisanship thing that can be cynically dismissed as business as usual in DC instead of a seismic shift in federal scientific policy to conform to arbitrary political mandates.
SlightlyLeftPad 4mo ago
That’s exactly what it is.

deepspace 4mo ago

It is not a disaster. It is a part of carefully orchestrated attack on Western democracies by enemy states.

nearlyepic 4mo ago
This stupidity is home-grown. Blaming "enemy states" is deflection - the quicker we understand that the quicker we can get to fixing this mess.
- vlovich123 4mo ago
  I don’t know. Seems like the Orban government was funneling an awful lot of money to CPAC. You know, one of Putin’s closest allies. Not sure it’s genuinely home grown.
  - rurp 4mo ago
    Certainly both are happening, to one degree or another. Hostile influence campaigns are having some effect but I would give homegrown the most credit. Given the general bumbling of the Putin/Orban governments of the world I doubt they are overly competent in this one area. Most of the physical sabotage operations that have been uncovered in Europe weren't very sophisticated; even if they are still dangerous. Americans are incredibly pissed about all sorts of things, both valid and absurd, and have a long track record of picking bad options as a fix.
  - tremon 4mo ago
    The amount of "foreign" money in US politics is absolutely dwarfed by the amount of "local business" money. The US government is being dismantled by its corporations, many of which are home grown.
tpm 4mo ago
it's not enemy states, it's a reactionary attack from within.

iririririr 4mo ago

(i must preface that this block was 100% trying to extract payment, like it was documented some coubtries did even during covid, but) even the lead researcher of mrna vaccines before covid said she would not consider mrna vaccines safes outside of the covid emergency. and this study focus on effectiveness, not side effects. so while turning away from science for politics is as bad as pushing it irresponsible for commercialization.