5 ms·

Indeed, solar panels and EVs are the way of the self-sufficient rugged individualist. It's an amazing PR and marketing coup to make it the other way around and

Indeed, solar panels and EVs are the way of the self-sufficient rugged individualist. It's an amazing PR and marketing coup to make it the other way around and presented as something for "liberal weaklings" etc.

tialaramex 4mo ago
Right, the set of people who actually pump their own oil out of the ground, refine it into something you can put in a modern vehicle engine and drive around on that is likely zero, but the set of people who own panels and storage so they can fill their EV includes my team lead, who is just some guy on a pretty average salary living on a modern housing estate. The bio-fuel people at least make some kind of sense compared to fossil fuel "survivalists" - but again they're portrayed as just tree huggers!
qsera 4mo ago
>It's an amazing PR and marketing coup to make it the other way around and presented as something for "liberal weaklings" etc. If there is such a marketing, then people relate to it because EVs are not suited for handling unpredictable situation. You got stuck in a ditch in the middle of nowhere at night, you loss all of your battery getting out of it, and now you are stuck. So you can't take it to unforgiving places. EVs are great for boring commute that is it. I don't see it changing any time soon.
- jl6 4mo ago
  Surely you call a recovery truck to come pull you out and do an emergency charge on your battery, similar to how they’d provide you with emergency gas if your tank ran dry? Or tow you if they don’t have a charger?
- hnuser123456 4mo ago
  Tow trucks are sometimes needed for gasoline cars too.
- elsonrodriguez 4mo ago
  If you run out of gas you’re also stuck. Only upside is that the recovery service can bring you a few gallons of fuel instead of a tow.
  - XorNot 4mo ago
    I somewhat suspect that's a temporary state of affairs. Nothing prevents a couple tons of batteries being put on a truck with a CCS charger to achieve the same thing. It won't be efficient but neither is driving a few liters of fuel to someone from a gas station.
    - ninalanyon 4mo ago
      Such things already exist in Europe. The RAC for instance: https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/call-breakdown-provider-ev-runs-out-of-charge/ https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/call-breakdown-provider-ev-ru...
- slavik81 4mo ago
  If you slide off the road and get stuck in a ditch in the middle of the night, an EV is a lot more comfortable. Standard advice for keeping warm is to run the engine for ten minutes every hour and keep the window cracked open due to risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. By contrast, you can leave the EV with the heat on all night.
- acdha 4mo ago
  > You got stuck in a ditch in the middle of nowhere at night, you loss all of your battery getting out of it, and now you are stuck. I find it interesting how you’re presenting that incredibly unlikely scenario as a serious objection to an EV when simply going off the road is a once in a lifetime or less situation for most drivers, much less precisely calibrating it so your vehicle is not damaged too much to be unusable but still needed a massive amount of power to get free. That’s an interesting counterpoint to something which happens to thousands drivers every year: having a bad storm cause them to sit in lengthy lines waiting for fuel (this was weeks the last time I was in Florida) or, in colder weather, idling through a tank of gas while stuck waiting for ice to be cleared.
  - redwall_hp 4mo ago
    The EV also has a ton more torque to get out of the ditch, and can apply it at very low speeds.
    - qsera 4mo ago
      A 4x4 with a 4L gear can give you all the torque you need, and it will provide it all day long.
  - qsera 4mo ago
    >going off the road is a once in a lifetime or less situation for most driver In my country, one don't have to go off road to get in that situation. Here I can never trust an EV like I trust an ICE for going to unfamiliar places. I have said it multiple times, but it is just wishful thinking that humanity will behave differently/responsibly w.r.t disposal/recycle of batteries as EVs start replace ICEs on a global scale. I think it will be an even bigger problem than the current issue with green house gas emissions as the current generation appear to be greatly apologetic to the associated issues, as the past, generation were to the issues of ICE. The circle of collective blindness repeats!
- AngryData 4mo ago
  You have used multiple gallons of gas getting "unstuck" from somewhere? That is a ridiculous scenario.
  - qsera 4mo ago
    The point is that I have the lee way to even attempt it...
- ralferoo 4mo ago
  How often are you driving into ditches at night? Typically this is something that only happens somewhere between never and once to most drivers in their lifetime, and the ones that do end up in a ditch are usually drunk. Aside from anything else, if you're in a ditch your car probably isn't drivable and needs towing somewhere to get fixed anyway. Whether you've used 100km of EV range trying and failing to get out of the ditch of 100km worth of fuel trying to get out of the ditch is irrelevant. If you need to use that much effort to get out of the ditch before realising it's a stupid plan that's not going to work and the correct solution is to call a tow truck, then you definitely shouldn't be driving that vehicle anyway.
- bryanlarsen 4mo ago
  A standard EV battery can power seat heaters for about a month. If you're "stuck in a ditch" you're better off with an electric car.
Gibbon1 4mo ago
I think 1600 watts of solar panels produces enough energy to drive an EV 12000 miles a year. Your car though would have to be always plugged in during the day. But probably 3200 watts would be enough for a car used for commuting to be charged mornings, evenings, and weekends.
- gpm 4mo ago
  > Your car though would have to be always plugged in during the day Or just have a second stationary battery to store up the energy while you're away during the day.
  - sitkack 4mo ago
    Two cars, much cheaper than a second battery pack. And you have a supply of rolling spare parts.
    - gpm 4mo ago
      This is probably the case right now, but I have faith the market will mature and fix that absurdity.
      - sitkack 4mo ago
        i was thinking used where you can get a Nissan Leaf which is a 75 kW, 20 kWh rolling battery pack.
    - bryanlarsen 4mo ago
      That's no longer the case. You can buy Chinese rack batteries for prices approaching $100/kWh.
      - gpm 4mo ago
        Are they UL certified? If so do you have a brand you can point me at by any chance?

tialaramex 4mo ago

Right, the set of people who actually pump their own oil out of the ground, refine it into something you can put in a modern vehicle engine and drive around on that is likely zero, but the set of people who own panels and storage so they can fill their EV includes my team lead, who is just some guy on a pretty average salary living on a modern housing estate. The bio-fuel people at least make some kind of sense compared to fossil fuel "survivalists" - but again they're portrayed as just tree huggers!

qsera 4mo ago

>It's an amazing PR and marketing coup to make it the other way around and presented as something for "liberal weaklings" etc. If there is such a marketing, then people relate to it because EVs are not suited for handling unpredictable situation. You got stuck in a ditch in the middle of nowhere at night, you loss all of your battery getting out of it, and now you are stuck. So you can't take it to unforgiving places. EVs are great for boring commute that is it. I don't see it changing any time soon.

jl6 4mo ago
Surely you call a recovery truck to come pull you out and do an emergency charge on your battery, similar to how they’d provide you with emergency gas if your tank ran dry? Or tow you if they don’t have a charger?
hnuser123456 4mo ago
Tow trucks are sometimes needed for gasoline cars too.
elsonrodriguez 4mo ago
If you run out of gas you’re also stuck. Only upside is that the recovery service can bring you a few gallons of fuel instead of a tow.
- XorNot 4mo ago
  I somewhat suspect that's a temporary state of affairs. Nothing prevents a couple tons of batteries being put on a truck with a CCS charger to achieve the same thing. It won't be efficient but neither is driving a few liters of fuel to someone from a gas station.
  - ninalanyon 4mo ago
    Such things already exist in Europe. The RAC for instance: https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/call-breakdown-provider-ev-runs-out-of-charge/ https://www.thecarexpert.co.uk/call-breakdown-provider-ev-ru...
slavik81 4mo ago
If you slide off the road and get stuck in a ditch in the middle of the night, an EV is a lot more comfortable. Standard advice for keeping warm is to run the engine for ten minutes every hour and keep the window cracked open due to risk of carbon monoxide poisoning. By contrast, you can leave the EV with the heat on all night.
acdha 4mo ago
> You got stuck in a ditch in the middle of nowhere at night, you loss all of your battery getting out of it, and now you are stuck. I find it interesting how you’re presenting that incredibly unlikely scenario as a serious objection to an EV when simply going off the road is a once in a lifetime or less situation for most drivers, much less precisely calibrating it so your vehicle is not damaged too much to be unusable but still needed a massive amount of power to get free. That’s an interesting counterpoint to something which happens to thousands drivers every year: having a bad storm cause them to sit in lengthy lines waiting for fuel (this was weeks the last time I was in Florida) or, in colder weather, idling through a tank of gas while stuck waiting for ice to be cleared.
- redwall_hp 4mo ago
  The EV also has a ton more torque to get out of the ditch, and can apply it at very low speeds.
  - qsera 4mo ago
    A 4x4 with a 4L gear can give you all the torque you need, and it will provide it all day long.
- qsera 4mo ago
  >going off the road is a once in a lifetime or less situation for most driver In my country, one don't have to go off road to get in that situation. Here I can never trust an EV like I trust an ICE for going to unfamiliar places. I have said it multiple times, but it is just wishful thinking that humanity will behave differently/responsibly w.r.t disposal/recycle of batteries as EVs start replace ICEs on a global scale. I think it will be an even bigger problem than the current issue with green house gas emissions as the current generation appear to be greatly apologetic to the associated issues, as the past, generation were to the issues of ICE. The circle of collective blindness repeats!
AngryData 4mo ago
You have used multiple gallons of gas getting "unstuck" from somewhere? That is a ridiculous scenario.
- qsera 4mo ago
  The point is that I have the lee way to even attempt it...
ralferoo 4mo ago
How often are you driving into ditches at night? Typically this is something that only happens somewhere between never and once to most drivers in their lifetime, and the ones that do end up in a ditch are usually drunk. Aside from anything else, if you're in a ditch your car probably isn't drivable and needs towing somewhere to get fixed anyway. Whether you've used 100km of EV range trying and failing to get out of the ditch of 100km worth of fuel trying to get out of the ditch is irrelevant. If you need to use that much effort to get out of the ditch before realising it's a stupid plan that's not going to work and the correct solution is to call a tow truck, then you definitely shouldn't be driving that vehicle anyway.
bryanlarsen 4mo ago
A standard EV battery can power seat heaters for about a month. If you're "stuck in a ditch" you're better off with an electric car.

Gibbon1 4mo ago

I think 1600 watts of solar panels produces enough energy to drive an EV 12000 miles a year. Your car though would have to be always plugged in during the day. But probably 3200 watts would be enough for a car used for commuting to be charged mornings, evenings, and weekends.

gpm 4mo ago
> Your car though would have to be always plugged in during the day Or just have a second stationary battery to store up the energy while you're away during the day.
- sitkack 4mo ago
  Two cars, much cheaper than a second battery pack. And you have a supply of rolling spare parts.
  - gpm 4mo ago
    This is probably the case right now, but I have faith the market will mature and fix that absurdity.
    - sitkack 4mo ago
      i was thinking used where you can get a Nissan Leaf which is a 75 kW, 20 kWh rolling battery pack.
  - bryanlarsen 4mo ago
    That's no longer the case. You can buy Chinese rack batteries for prices approaching $100/kWh.
    - gpm 4mo ago
      Are they UL certified? If so do you have a brand you can point me at by any chance?