7 ms·

Bitcoin Adoption Right on Schedule

42 points by cs702 14y ago

BrianPetro 14y ago
Does anyone have any good resources for Bitcoin in business?
tonfa 14y ago
The original article is very fuzzy and it isn't clear at all whether bitcoins are used in Iran (it's mostly about how bitcoins could be useful).
w1ntermute 14y ago
Isn't the Iranian govt planning on cutting the country off from the worldwide internet? Wouldn't that make the use of BTC much more difficult?
- hippich 14y ago
  I would imagine few rogue machines connected somehow to outside internet and sharing blocks on iranian intranet. something like this. But yeah - it would be more dificult to deal with transactions which involve coins "from outside", but it should be fine for coins "from inside"
- Tichy 14y ago
  In any case, hiding BitCoin should be much easier than hiding gold.
taligent 14y ago
Supporters of Bitcoin really are their own worst enemy. You only have to look at the comments to see why most normal people aren't going to touch it with a forty foot pole.
- habitue 14y ago
  Examples? Your comment is basically content free here.
  - taligent 14y ago
    Let's start with the most popular: "Bitcoin is to the USD (and all fiat) what Kryptonite is to Superman." People don't want a massive upheaval of the status quo. They don't want an anarchist, anything goes, regulation free environment. They want government involved in ensuring a level playing field.
    - codexon 14y ago
      If you ignore the anarcho-capitalism fanatics, you can see bitcoin has its uses. It is great for international trade without having to use Paypal. And there are no chargebacks. The big problem with Bitcoin is that it is really slow to verify a transaction so it is not going to replace current solutions in the next decade. But it definitely has a niche. However the price of bitcoins barely risen by $1 so I doubt Iranians have bought more than $10,000 worth of bitcoins.
      - politician 14y ago
        "really slow to verify a transaction" 10 minutes to get into the block chain + 50 minutes (5 additional rounds) to shift the probabilities of a fraudulent transaction (e.g. double-spending) down near 0. This may or may not be too slow depending on the transaction.
        xyproto 14y ago
        Not too slow for must purchases over the internet, one would think.
        codexon 14y ago
        When you can buy something instantly with paypal on a competitor's site, it is too slow.
cypherpunks01 14y ago
Link to original article: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-29/dollar-less-iranians-discover-virtual-currency http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-29/dollar-less-...
armored_mammal 14y ago
I still think the fact that there's hard cap on the eventual total number of bitcoins will make them long run deflationary, create a strong incentive to horde, and eventually act as a restraint on their use in commerce - after all inflation is a prime motivator when it comes to spending what you have now.
- lukesandberg 14y ago
  I disagree. inflation is _a_ motivator for exchanging currency for other assets/services. But i don't think it is a primary motivator. Inflation/deflation is only a strong motivator in abnormal circumstances. With 2-3% inflation my primary motivation for buying things is way more about the transaction itself (do i want this thing) than any concerns about finding a durable store of value.
  - meric 14y ago
    Bitcoin has much higher than 2-3% deflation. It's value is increasing at a very fast rate relative to the increase of the price of goods.
- kiba 14y ago
  So, you wanna buy food or do you want to keep hording bitcoin?
  - tptacek 14y ago
    The world in which dollars have no value is unlikely to be a world in which Bitcoins have any value either.
    - wwwtyro 14y ago
      Could you explain the reasoning behind this statement?
      - tptacek 14y ago
joejohnson 14y ago
So I have a bunch of bitcoins, and I get to Iran, how do I withdraw some bitcoins to have local currency while abroad? Do I need to transfer to Dwalla first, and then wait for a bank transfer? Does anyone know the best way to convert my BTCs back into gov-backed currency when I need it?
- kiba 14y ago
  You could use localbitcoins.com to find local people to exchange currency with.
- politician 14y ago
  You can sell your BTC at a rate denominated in your currency of choice at a currency exchange. One such exchange is MtGox [1]. There might be a delay in getting paper currency from an exchange, so plan ahead. [1] https://mtgox.com/ https://mtgox.com/
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
quanticle 14y ago
>As financial, economic, and political crises of all kinds continue to erupt >all over the planet from time to time, demand for Bitcoin as a currency or >store of value of last resort should gradually expand from niche markets to >the broader population. I don't buy that argument. There are all sorts of measures that people take during crises (barter, for example) that they don't continue with when the crisis fades. A true test of Bitcoin would be to determine if Iranians are still using Bitcoin after the current crisis fades and the sanctions have receded somewhat. If they're still using Bitcoin then, you can make the case that Bitcoin is displacing the Iranian real as the currency of choice in Iran. But otherwise, all this proves is that Bitcoin is temporarily more convenient than the current currency system, which isn't a very strong assertion at all.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- joonix 14y ago
  Well, I'm sure they can still convert to a whole host of other currencies, just not the major sanctioned ones. So, we can say Bitcoin is beating out the minor currencies.
- cs702 14y ago
  quanticle: If Bitcoin survives the present crisis in Iran, surely it will gain credibility in the minds of Iranians as a medium of exchange and store of value that can survive crises. That's undeniable. Next time there's a crisis, or even risk of crisis, more Iranians will turn to Bitcoin, just as they will turn to gold, silver, and the US dollar. Their thinking will be, "well, if it survived the last crisis, it will probably survive this new crisis too." As a decentralized virtual asset, Bitcoin not only can survive financial crises, collapsed economies, toppled governments, and military conflicts; it's also SUPERIOR to the alternatives - easier to subdivide, recombine, store, secure, and transport than precious metals and hard currencies. One cannot encrypt an ounce of gold or upload silver to a remote server, let alone hide a dollar inside a jpeg file! Over the coming years and decades, if Bitcoin successfully survives crisis after crisis, nothing prevents it from eventually gaining as much credibility in the public's mind as, say, gold.
contingencies 14y ago
At present, Bitcoin is primarily useful for moving funds between alternate asset types (ie. as a means of settlement) and NOT as a store of value or investment. This has been independently stated by formal financial bodies, plus by the Bitcoin lead developer. People need to understand this. See also the three primary functions of money at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money
spoiledtechie 14y ago
Are there any APIs to have people buy products and services with bitcoins? Also, How can I turn them into cash once people have bought services with those bitcoins?

42 points by cs702 14y ago

Does anyone have any good resources for Bitcoin in business?

tonfa 14y ago

The original article is very fuzzy and it isn't clear at all whether bitcoins are used in Iran (it's mostly about how bitcoins could be useful).

w1ntermute 14y ago

Isn't the Iranian govt planning on cutting the country off from the worldwide internet? Wouldn't that make the use of BTC much more difficult?

hippich 14y ago
I would imagine few rogue machines connected somehow to outside internet and sharing blocks on iranian intranet. something like this. But yeah - it would be more dificult to deal with transactions which involve coins "from outside", but it should be fine for coins "from inside"
Tichy 14y ago
In any case, hiding BitCoin should be much easier than hiding gold.

taligent 14y ago

Supporters of Bitcoin really are their own worst enemy. You only have to look at the comments to see why most normal people aren't going to touch it with a forty foot pole.

habitue 14y ago
Examples? Your comment is basically content free here.
- taligent 14y ago
  Let's start with the most popular: "Bitcoin is to the USD (and all fiat) what Kryptonite is to Superman." People don't want a massive upheaval of the status quo. They don't want an anarchist, anything goes, regulation free environment. They want government involved in ensuring a level playing field.
  - codexon 14y ago
    If you ignore the anarcho-capitalism fanatics, you can see bitcoin has its uses. It is great for international trade without having to use Paypal. And there are no chargebacks. The big problem with Bitcoin is that it is really slow to verify a transaction so it is not going to replace current solutions in the next decade. But it definitely has a niche. However the price of bitcoins barely risen by $1 so I doubt Iranians have bought more than $10,000 worth of bitcoins.
    - politician 14y ago
      "really slow to verify a transaction" 10 minutes to get into the block chain + 50 minutes (5 additional rounds) to shift the probabilities of a fraudulent transaction (e.g. double-spending) down near 0. This may or may not be too slow depending on the transaction.
      - xyproto 14y ago
        Not too slow for must purchases over the internet, one would think.
        codexon 14y ago
        When you can buy something instantly with paypal on a competitor's site, it is too slow.

cypherpunks01 14y ago

Link to original article: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-29/dollar-less-iranians-discover-virtual-currency http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-11-29/dollar-less-...

armored_mammal 14y ago

I still think the fact that there's hard cap on the eventual total number of bitcoins will make them long run deflationary, create a strong incentive to horde, and eventually act as a restraint on their use in commerce - after all inflation is a prime motivator when it comes to spending what you have now.

lukesandberg 14y ago
I disagree. inflation is _a_ motivator for exchanging currency for other assets/services. But i don't think it is a primary motivator. Inflation/deflation is only a strong motivator in abnormal circumstances. With 2-3% inflation my primary motivation for buying things is way more about the transaction itself (do i want this thing) than any concerns about finding a durable store of value.
- meric 14y ago
  Bitcoin has much higher than 2-3% deflation. It's value is increasing at a very fast rate relative to the increase of the price of goods.
kiba 14y ago
So, you wanna buy food or do you want to keep hording bitcoin?
- tptacek 14y ago
  The world in which dollars have no value is unlikely to be a world in which Bitcoins have any value either.
  - wwwtyro 14y ago
    Could you explain the reasoning behind this statement?
    - tptacek 14y ago

joejohnson 14y ago

So I have a bunch of bitcoins, and I get to Iran, how do I withdraw some bitcoins to have local currency while abroad? Do I need to transfer to Dwalla first, and then wait for a bank transfer? Does anyone know the best way to convert my BTCs back into gov-backed currency when I need it?

kiba 14y ago
You could use localbitcoins.com to find local people to exchange currency with.
politician 14y ago
You can sell your BTC at a rate denominated in your currency of choice at a currency exchange. One such exchange is MtGox [1]. There might be a delay in getting paper currency from an exchange, so plan ahead. [1] https://mtgox.com/ https://mtgox.com/
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

quanticle 14y ago

>As financial, economic, and political crises of all kinds continue to erupt >all over the planet from time to time, demand for Bitcoin as a currency or >store of value of last resort should gradually expand from niche markets to >the broader population. I don't buy that argument. There are all sorts of measures that people take during crises (barter, for example) that they don't continue with when the crisis fades. A true test of Bitcoin would be to determine if Iranians are still using Bitcoin after the current crisis fades and the sanctions have receded somewhat. If they're still using Bitcoin then, you can make the case that Bitcoin is displacing the Iranian real as the currency of choice in Iran. But otherwise, all this proves is that Bitcoin is temporarily more convenient than the current currency system, which isn't a very strong assertion at all.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
joonix 14y ago
Well, I'm sure they can still convert to a whole host of other currencies, just not the major sanctioned ones. So, we can say Bitcoin is beating out the minor currencies.
cs702 14y ago
quanticle: If Bitcoin survives the present crisis in Iran, surely it will gain credibility in the minds of Iranians as a medium of exchange and store of value that can survive crises. That's undeniable. Next time there's a crisis, or even risk of crisis, more Iranians will turn to Bitcoin, just as they will turn to gold, silver, and the US dollar. Their thinking will be, "well, if it survived the last crisis, it will probably survive this new crisis too." As a decentralized virtual asset, Bitcoin not only can survive financial crises, collapsed economies, toppled governments, and military conflicts; it's also SUPERIOR to the alternatives - easier to subdivide, recombine, store, secure, and transport than precious metals and hard currencies. One cannot encrypt an ounce of gold or upload silver to a remote server, let alone hide a dollar inside a jpeg file! Over the coming years and decades, if Bitcoin successfully survives crisis after crisis, nothing prevents it from eventually gaining as much credibility in the public's mind as, say, gold.

contingencies 14y ago

At present, Bitcoin is primarily useful for moving funds between alternate asset types (ie. as a means of settlement) and NOT as a store of value or investment. This has been independently stated by formal financial bodies, plus by the Bitcoin lead developer. People need to understand this. See also the three primary functions of money at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money

spoiledtechie 14y ago

Are there any APIs to have people buy products and services with bitcoins? Also, How can I turn them into cash once people have bought services with those bitcoins?