4 ms·

There tens of millions of people being treated off-label.

by intrasight 4mo ago

uberex 4mo ago
Can confirm. LDN user here.
- cjbgkagh 4mo ago
  Also a LDN user, that drug saved my life. I bought it from a shady dude online, the initial effect was so strong that I thought they shipped me meth instead - that wore off after a week but the lifting of the brain fog persisted.
  - jnovek 4mo ago
    It didn’t have that sort of immediate, intense effect for me (though yours isn’t the only account like this that I’ve seen) but I’m still happy with the outcome; it dropped my average 1-to-10 pain score by about two points at three months.
    - cjbgkagh 4mo ago
      It is a rare side effect, I helped a bunch of people (~50) get LDN, primarily for LongCovid, and only one other had a similar ‘too much energy’ effect and both of us have multiple TNXB SNPs and a very similar rare personality profile. I think the brain is so starved for dopamine at that point that it becomes hyper sensitive. I do miss the extra high energy but I also know that isn’t maintainable and I try to err on the side of caution. I’ve had ME/CFS my whole life but the third covid vaccine shot sent me to new lows, to the point LDN just wasn’t cutting it anymore. These days I take a combo of modafinil in the morning and amitryptiline at night. And low dose ozempic has been super helpful as well. I was researching GLP1As prior to the current craze because I was worried about hyper sensitivity so I waited for more data before trying, I started at 1/100th the normal starting dose and still got temporary gastroparesis. These days I take a more regular dose of 1mg/wk but it also seems that my body has largely normalized as the hypersensitivities have worn off. Probably a good sign that I’ve successfully addressed actual deficiencies.
- sowbug 4mo ago
  I checked this thread for an expansion of that initialism, which I didn't recognize. It likely stands for "low-dose naltrexone." https://ldnresearchtrust.org/what-is-low-dose-naltrexone-ldn https://ldnresearchtrust.org/what-is-low-dose-naltrexone-ldn "a prescription medication used primarily to treat alcohol use disorder and opioid use disorder" (in addition to the off-label uses discussed here)
oezi 4mo ago
The doctors are assuming liability or let the patient sign waivers, which I guess is fine. But the lack of a pathway prevents a lot of commercial possibilities. For instance it is almost impossible to build a business around supporting off-label use cases (for instance selling necessary accessories).
- forgetfreeman 4mo ago
  The business is already built given the drug in question is already being manufactured and available on the market.
- Aurornis 4mo ago
  Off label prescribing is extremely common. This isn’t a new or novel concept. Doctors manage patients with off-label prescriptions all day long.
  - mothballed 4mo ago
    To get a drug approved you have to go through regulatory approval for a particular use. If the fuck-fuck game is you can just off-label for whatever but only if first approved by the FDA to solve some other problem, why not just bypass the bullshit and get straight to the point of approving the drug without any approved use? Oh yes, because that assures the barriers to entry are arbitrarily higher, and Pfizer and other ilk can insulate themselves from competition. Thanks FDA!
    - _DeadFred_ 4mo ago
      Like a lot of the systems we have today, it grew from good intentions. We need to figure out a way to refresh our systems without throwing them away. The current system does provide new drugs and benefit. The question is is it limiting, and are the tradeoff of those limits worth while. In other words it takes hard work, with politically risky outcomes and an upside that becomes invisible as far as political careers go. We need to figure out how to refresh our systems in an environment where that type of thing just stumbles along. Maybe a couple of politicians elected who have lost out because of the status quo, but that want to improve it not throw it away. Maybe working with them to motivate them to take it on as a pet project and move things.

There tens of millions of people being treated off-label.

uberex 4mo ago

Can confirm. LDN user here.

cjbgkagh 4mo ago
Also a LDN user, that drug saved my life. I bought it from a shady dude online, the initial effect was so strong that I thought they shipped me meth instead - that wore off after a week but the lifting of the brain fog persisted.
- jnovek 4mo ago
  It didn’t have that sort of immediate, intense effect for me (though yours isn’t the only account like this that I’ve seen) but I’m still happy with the outcome; it dropped my average 1-to-10 pain score by about two points at three months.
  - cjbgkagh 4mo ago
    It is a rare side effect, I helped a bunch of people (~50) get LDN, primarily for LongCovid, and only one other had a similar ‘too much energy’ effect and both of us have multiple TNXB SNPs and a very similar rare personality profile. I think the brain is so starved for dopamine at that point that it becomes hyper sensitive. I do miss the extra high energy but I also know that isn’t maintainable and I try to err on the side of caution. I’ve had ME/CFS my whole life but the third covid vaccine shot sent me to new lows, to the point LDN just wasn’t cutting it anymore. These days I take a combo of modafinil in the morning and amitryptiline at night. And low dose ozempic has been super helpful as well. I was researching GLP1As prior to the current craze because I was worried about hyper sensitivity so I waited for more data before trying, I started at 1/100th the normal starting dose and still got temporary gastroparesis. These days I take a more regular dose of 1mg/wk but it also seems that my body has largely normalized as the hypersensitivities have worn off. Probably a good sign that I’ve successfully addressed actual deficiencies.
sowbug 4mo ago
I checked this thread for an expansion of that initialism, which I didn't recognize. It likely stands for "low-dose naltrexone." https://ldnresearchtrust.org/what-is-low-dose-naltrexone-ldn https://ldnresearchtrust.org/what-is-low-dose-naltrexone-ldn "a prescription medication used primarily to treat alcohol use disorder and opioid use disorder" (in addition to the off-label uses discussed here)

oezi 4mo ago

The doctors are assuming liability or let the patient sign waivers, which I guess is fine. But the lack of a pathway prevents a lot of commercial possibilities. For instance it is almost impossible to build a business around supporting off-label use cases (for instance selling necessary accessories).

forgetfreeman 4mo ago
The business is already built given the drug in question is already being manufactured and available on the market.
Aurornis 4mo ago
Off label prescribing is extremely common. This isn’t a new or novel concept. Doctors manage patients with off-label prescriptions all day long.
- mothballed 4mo ago
  To get a drug approved you have to go through regulatory approval for a particular use. If the fuck-fuck game is you can just off-label for whatever but only if first approved by the FDA to solve some other problem, why not just bypass the bullshit and get straight to the point of approving the drug without any approved use? Oh yes, because that assures the barriers to entry are arbitrarily higher, and Pfizer and other ilk can insulate themselves from competition. Thanks FDA!
  - _DeadFred_ 4mo ago
    Like a lot of the systems we have today, it grew from good intentions. We need to figure out a way to refresh our systems without throwing them away. The current system does provide new drugs and benefit. The question is is it limiting, and are the tradeoff of those limits worth while. In other words it takes hard work, with politically risky outcomes and an upside that becomes invisible as far as political careers go. We need to figure out how to refresh our systems in an environment where that type of thing just stumbles along. Maybe a couple of politicians elected who have lost out because of the status quo, but that want to improve it not throw it away. Maybe working with them to motivate them to take it on as a pet project and move things.