3 ms·

That seems wild. Do you have a citation to back that up? And in what country/countries?

by boxed 4mo ago

amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
I'm in the US, and there are a couple of wrinkles to this: insurance typically won't cover off label use, so patients end up paying the full cost of the medication, and if there is a big enough market, I believe companies can patent the new use even if the patents for the original use have run out. Doctors here are allowed to prescribe them though.
- bonsai_spool 4mo ago
  > I believe companies can patent the new use even if the patents for the original use have run out. This is not true > insurance typically won't cover off label use Generally not true but it can be the case, especially for expensive medications
  - amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
    Yes new uses of existing drugs can be patented: https://www.drugpatentwatch.com/blog/patenting-new-uses-for-existing-drugs-a-legal-and-strategic-analysis-of-drug-repurposing/ https://www.drugpatentwatch.com/blog/patenting-new-uses-for-...
    - bonsai_spool 4mo ago
      This is clearly made by an LLM and thus not a credible resource. From: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9336118/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9336118/ "COM claims can be difficult to gain for repurposed compounds, as the patentee must somehow differentiate their patent claims over what is in the public domain and present data that the drug is a credible candidate for the new indication [41, 42]." citing 41 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32241561/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32241561/ 42 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30310233/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30310233/
      - amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
        Do you like this source better? https://synapse.patsnap.com/blog/what-are-the-types-of-pharmaceutical-patents https://synapse.patsnap.com/blog/what-are-the-types-of-pharm...?
        bonsai_spool 4mo ago
        It’s somebody’s random blog instead of three published, peer reviewed articles. I’m not sure what you expect to hear
        amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
        It's a matter of law, not science. Ask a patent attorney. If you like, here is a paper from the Vanderbilt law review: https://scholarship.law.vanderbilt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2919&context=vlr https://scholarship.law.vanderbilt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a...
        bonsai_spool 4mo ago
        Did you actually read that article that spends many pages explaining how there is no good way for a firm to patent a repurposed drug that is working the same way as it worked in a prior indication, but is being used for a new indication where it has the same function - exactly what you’re asserting and what I said is not possible? Thanks for the article, it is a good one.
- Aurornis 4mo ago
  > insurance typically won't cover off label use I’m in the US. This is not true. Insurance will have prior authorization rules for certain drugs that are expensive that require the doctor to submit documentation of the condition, but in most cases the common medication is simply covered if prescribed. The insurance company does not receive documentation of every condition for every prescription to determine if the prescription is on label or off label. Insurance companies can and do also support some off label treatments that are commonly used under their prior auth requirements. I don’t know why there are so many comments in this thread making confident assertions that off label prescribing or insurance or so uncommon. This happens all day long at doctors offices and pharmacies.
  - dpark 4mo ago
    So much weirdly confident misinformation here. When LLMs do this we can it hallucination.
    - Jblx2 4mo ago
      Can't tell if this comment is agreeing with Aurornis or calling them out.
      - dpark 4mo ago
        Agreeing. There is a ton of blatant misinformation being shared in this thread by people who seem utterly confident despite their apparently complete ignorance.
  - amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
    Yeah I definitely misspoke on that one. I believe they aren't required to cover off label use, so it's up to them whether they do or not.
- jpk2f2 4mo ago
  Insurance absolutely covers off label use. And depending on the area of medicine, off label use can be incredibly common (see cardiac pediatrics).
- tekla 4mo ago
  > insurance typically won't cover off label use That's a lie, I get off-label drugs prescribed monthly covered.

That seems wild. Do you have a citation to back that up? And in what country/countries?

by boxed 4mo ago

That seems wild. Do you have a citation to back that up? And in what country/countries?

I'm in the US, and there are a couple of wrinkles to this: insurance typically won't cover off label use, so patients end up paying the full cost of the medication, and if there is a big enough market, I believe companies can patent the new use even if the patents for the original use have run out. Doctors here are allowed to prescribe them though.

bonsai_spool 4mo ago
> I believe companies can patent the new use even if the patents for the original use have run out. This is not true > insurance typically won't cover off label use Generally not true but it can be the case, especially for expensive medications
- amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
  Yes new uses of existing drugs can be patented: https://www.drugpatentwatch.com/blog/patenting-new-uses-for-existing-drugs-a-legal-and-strategic-analysis-of-drug-repurposing/ https://www.drugpatentwatch.com/blog/patenting-new-uses-for-...
  - bonsai_spool 4mo ago
    This is clearly made by an LLM and thus not a credible resource. From: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9336118/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9336118/ "COM claims can be difficult to gain for repurposed compounds, as the patentee must somehow differentiate their patent claims over what is in the public domain and present data that the drug is a credible candidate for the new indication [41, 42]." citing 41 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32241561/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32241561/ 42 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30310233/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30310233/
    - amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
      Do you like this source better? https://synapse.patsnap.com/blog/what-are-the-types-of-pharmaceutical-patents https://synapse.patsnap.com/blog/what-are-the-types-of-pharm...?
      - bonsai_spool 4mo ago
        It’s somebody’s random blog instead of three published, peer reviewed articles. I’m not sure what you expect to hear
        amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
        It's a matter of law, not science. Ask a patent attorney. If you like, here is a paper from the Vanderbilt law review: https://scholarship.law.vanderbilt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2919&context=vlr https://scholarship.law.vanderbilt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?a...
        bonsai_spool 4mo ago
        Did you actually read that article that spends many pages explaining how there is no good way for a firm to patent a repurposed drug that is working the same way as it worked in a prior indication, but is being used for a new indication where it has the same function - exactly what you’re asserting and what I said is not possible? Thanks for the article, it is a good one.
Aurornis 4mo ago
> insurance typically won't cover off label use I’m in the US. This is not true. Insurance will have prior authorization rules for certain drugs that are expensive that require the doctor to submit documentation of the condition, but in most cases the common medication is simply covered if prescribed. The insurance company does not receive documentation of every condition for every prescription to determine if the prescription is on label or off label. Insurance companies can and do also support some off label treatments that are commonly used under their prior auth requirements. I don’t know why there are so many comments in this thread making confident assertions that off label prescribing or insurance or so uncommon. This happens all day long at doctors offices and pharmacies.
- dpark 4mo ago
  So much weirdly confident misinformation here. When LLMs do this we can it hallucination.
  - Jblx2 4mo ago
    Can't tell if this comment is agreeing with Aurornis or calling them out.
    - dpark 4mo ago
      Agreeing. There is a ton of blatant misinformation being shared in this thread by people who seem utterly confident despite their apparently complete ignorance.
- amanaplanacanal 4mo ago
  Yeah I definitely misspoke on that one. I believe they aren't required to cover off label use, so it's up to them whether they do or not.
jpk2f2 4mo ago
Insurance absolutely covers off label use. And depending on the area of medicine, off label use can be incredibly common (see cardiac pediatrics).
tekla 4mo ago
> insurance typically won't cover off label use That's a lie, I get off-label drugs prescribed monthly covered.