6 ms·

So this is the other side of banning American models for non-Americans? And how exactly do they plan on enforcing all of this? Great Firewall of America? This

by glerk 4mo ago

So this is the other side of banning American models for non-Americans? And how exactly do they plan on enforcing all of this? Great Firewall of America? This is a complete joke. The malicious clowns behind this should be removed from power and prevented from ever holding any position of power in any form of governance system.

ibejoeb 4mo ago
> how exactly do they plan on enforcing all of this? Video selfies and government document upload on hardware attested phones, of course.
matheusmoreira 4mo ago
They're probably going to ban GPU exports to China. Which will of course accelerate the development of their own GPUs. More products for us.
- mtoner23 4mo ago
  trump just undid the gpu export to china to help jensen make money
  - embedding-shape 4mo ago
    Oh, that's great, finally they put that cat back in the bag, surely it can never escape. Gonna be interesting to see how the ecosystem looks like 2-3 years, I'd be expecting some drastic changes compared to today.
    - frm88 4mo ago
      3 days ago the deal was still on https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/trumps-china-nvidia-dealing-threatens-doj-chip-smuggling-trial https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/trumps-china-nvidi...
- azinman2 4mo ago
  China is already going as hard as they can on their own GPUs. When has availability of non-Chinese tech in China meant China didn't ultimately come up with homegrown replacements?
  - matheusmoreira 4mo ago
    It's just my general impression. They banned China from the ISS, China made their own space station. China's making their own x86 chips, their own GPUs. As a fellow wheel reinventer, I admire their audacity. It's the sort of thing that makes me wish my country was like China.
    - _carbyau_ 4mo ago
      > makes me wish my country was like China I admire their governance ability to have long term plans. The sheer scale of their production ambitions in so many fields and their energy build out is insane. The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring.
      - r14c 4mo ago
        > The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring Our oligarchs do that too and all we get in return is declining infrastructure and paranoia.
        deaux 4mo ago
        Classic case of getting downvoted solely because it's a negative comparison to China. The letter for letter exact same comment in a thread only about the US on here, that doesn't mention China, would get upvoted. You are, of course, right. All of the downsides with none of the benefits.
      - joe_mamba 4mo ago
        >The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring. In which major democratic western country don't the elites get wealthier? In fact, the top 10% asset owners saw the biggest post-covid recovery, which the rest stagnated or are in decline. Not defending China but are own oligarchs are just as savvy at enriching themselves while screwing us over.
- karunamurti 4mo ago
  China already produced their first graphic card that got Microsoft WHQL certification. Is it competitive enough? Probably no. Is there a software ecosystem for Chinese hardware yet? Probably no. But you know it will come soon.
azinman2 4mo ago
You're aware that many countries are blacklisted from trade with the US already, along with certain segments of existing companies. It just means that enforcement comes with contracts, law, banking systems, etc.
worik 4mo ago
Until they scantion Brazil It can happen to anyone
usernomdeguerre 4mo ago
> And how exactly do they plan on enforcing all of this? Great Firewall of America? That's what Cloudflare will be for.
incompatible 4mo ago
Banning American models for non-Americans seems like a big reduction of the potential customers for American chatbot companies.
0xpgm 4mo ago
It's likely the elected officials know nothing about AI the technology. Depends on who has their ears in terms creating policies around technology.
tychez 4mo ago
The same way you can't just open a bank account anonymously. It seems inevitable to me that this is going to end up with a KYC/AML style digital online ID. Without that you are not using Claude 10. It would not be shocking at all at some level of capability that running open source models anonymously is made a crime. To pretend there is not huge issues with a laissez faire attitude as these models progress I think is intellectually dishonest and performative.

by glerk 4mo ago

ibejoeb 4mo ago

> how exactly do they plan on enforcing all of this? Video selfies and government document upload on hardware attested phones, of course.

matheusmoreira 4mo ago

They're probably going to ban GPU exports to China. Which will of course accelerate the development of their own GPUs. More products for us.

mtoner23 4mo ago
trump just undid the gpu export to china to help jensen make money
- embedding-shape 4mo ago
  Oh, that's great, finally they put that cat back in the bag, surely it can never escape. Gonna be interesting to see how the ecosystem looks like 2-3 years, I'd be expecting some drastic changes compared to today.
  - frm88 4mo ago
    3 days ago the deal was still on https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/trumps-china-nvidia-dealing-threatens-doj-chip-smuggling-trial https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/trumps-china-nvidi...
azinman2 4mo ago
China is already going as hard as they can on their own GPUs. When has availability of non-Chinese tech in China meant China didn't ultimately come up with homegrown replacements?
- matheusmoreira 4mo ago
  It's just my general impression. They banned China from the ISS, China made their own space station. China's making their own x86 chips, their own GPUs. As a fellow wheel reinventer, I admire their audacity. It's the sort of thing that makes me wish my country was like China.
  - _carbyau_ 4mo ago
    > makes me wish my country was like China I admire their governance ability to have long term plans. The sheer scale of their production ambitions in so many fields and their energy build out is insane. The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring.
    - r14c 4mo ago
      > The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring Our oligarchs do that too and all we get in return is declining infrastructure and paranoia.
      - deaux 4mo ago
        Classic case of getting downvoted solely because it's a negative comparison to China. The letter for letter exact same comment in a thread only about the US on here, that doesn't mention China, would get upvoted. You are, of course, right. All of the downsides with none of the benefits.
    - joe_mamba 4mo ago
      >The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring. In which major democratic western country don't the elites get wealthier? In fact, the top 10% asset owners saw the biggest post-covid recovery, which the rest stagnated or are in decline. Not defending China but are own oligarchs are just as savvy at enriching themselves while screwing us over.
karunamurti 4mo ago
China already produced their first graphic card that got Microsoft WHQL certification. Is it competitive enough? Probably no. Is there a software ecosystem for Chinese hardware yet? Probably no. But you know it will come soon.

azinman2 4mo ago

You're aware that many countries are blacklisted from trade with the US already, along with certain segments of existing companies. It just means that enforcement comes with contracts, law, banking systems, etc.

worik 4mo ago

Until they scantion Brazil It can happen to anyone

usernomdeguerre 4mo ago

> And how exactly do they plan on enforcing all of this? Great Firewall of America? That's what Cloudflare will be for.

incompatible 4mo ago

Banning American models for non-Americans seems like a big reduction of the potential customers for American chatbot companies.

0xpgm 4mo ago

It's likely the elected officials know nothing about AI the technology. Depends on who has their ears in terms creating policies around technology.

tychez 4mo ago

The same way you can't just open a bank account anonymously. It seems inevitable to me that this is going to end up with a KYC/AML style digital online ID. Without that you are not using Claude 10. It would not be shocking at all at some level of capability that running open source models anonymously is made a crime. To pretend there is not huge issues with a laissez faire attitude as these models progress I think is intellectually dishonest and performative.