5 ms·

I don't know how large a group who will do this is - but if the UK bans VPNs I can see Graphene having a very large target on its back. - Buy Pixel, Get Grap

by AJRF 4mo ago

I don't know how large a group who will do this is - but if the UK bans VPNs I can see Graphene having a very large target on its back. - Buy Pixel, Get Graphene - Use FDroid, don't sign up for Google Play, download Tor browser - Censorship resistant access to the internet without handing over your ID. Pixel being a fairly popular phone in the UK is the interesting bit - if you had to buy some niche device I couldn't see it hitting more than a few hundred people doing it, but there are likely 100k pixels in the UK, and it's still possible to buy one and put Graphene on it. The squeeze on the free internet happened so quick by the UK (well it took years of indifference and a failure to enshrine protections - but once they started moving the did so super fast) Realistically we're speed running ID being tied to internet usage - create your escape hatch while you can!

leoedin 4mo ago
There must be 10s of millions of x86 PCs with unlocked bioses in the UK. The issue won't be running an open device. The problem is software - what does someone running Linux do if the government mandates online services require proprietary attestation APIs? It's scary how quickly the banning is moving. The problem is what happens next. When they realise that banning things doesn't really work. The next logical step is severely limiting internet traffic.
- altairprime 4mo ago
  > what does someone running Linux do if the government mandates online services require proprietary attestation APIs? One dual-boots to a reputable Linux vendor’s signed/sealed OS image with secure boot enabled in BIOS, so that the attestations are valid; financially supports said vendor; contacts them quarterly with check-ins on the status of their lockdown+attestation roadmap and uses professional journalism approaches to highlight their (in/)action; and, contacts one’s relevant governing body to petition for the addition of that vendor’s signed/sealed product line to be added to the authorized signatures list by both government-sponsored apps and to the verification platforms of the competing vendors (in order to balance the necessities of attestations with an appropriate degree of anti-monopolistic protections for consumers). > It's scary how quickly the banning is moving. The problem is what happens next. When they realise that banning things doesn't really work This confidence that ‘attestation doesn’t really work’ is the same sort of confidence that lead the Linux user community to largely scoff at, and ignore, attestation’s threat from when it was ballistically launched three decades ago towards the future. Options are now very limited for stopping it, and largely reduced to ‘getting some Linux into the approval list’. Severe compromises in user freedom will be required for the signed+sealed distro images to receive government approvals. Imagine if Linux were an app on a video game console and you start to see the outcome: it’s a perfectly great working environment into which all of /usr/local and /opt and /home are writable, but the lockdown prevents you from modifying the OS in any way that could defeat the attestation protections. Apps you install into /opt can only access their own /opt/prefix, apps you install into /usr/local can access $HOME. The apps you install can choose to write session data (such as digital age verification certificates) to a system-protected /data store keyed first by the kernel’s signature, and second by the vendor signature the kernel reads from the app; with the understanding that an attestation latch-forward after an exploit patch will wipe that store, and that dual-booting to a different vendor will suspend access to sessions stored by that vendor. This is, to climb on my hobby horse for a moment, why I continue to believe that Valve will be the first Linux vendor to receive government attestation approval alongside Apple / Google / Microsoft have previously across the desktop and mobile spaces. I’d really prefer that to be Graphene, Ubuntu, and Valve — but Graphene’s customer base is hostile to this, Ubuntu doesn’t have any incentive to care, and of the Linux vendors out there, Valve has a decade-long head start on the need for a locked-down and attested platform for business reasons. All of the above falls out naturally from considering how to defend one app from another on Android, iOS, Steam Deck, and Xbox. So far as I can tell today, though, Linux intends to be left out in the cold on all this. Oh well.
  - dmantis 4mo ago
    >signed/sealed OS image This way we will just have unremovable age verification, spyware, online accounts to use the os, name another bs from other vendors. What's the point of Linux then? The moment big corps and the state can seal spyware into your computer, they'll happily do it. I'd rather have a separate burn device with whatever os for state services which lives in a faraday cage most of the time and have a proper OS I control on the main device than give somebody control over it.
    - altairprime 4mo ago
      I’m with you in spirit, but the ship is sinking, man. Your arguments were already made in the 90s when the first puff of smoke from all this was on the horizon. Thirty years of chicken little later, I’ve moved past being upset about this and am trying instead to persuade the Linux community to step up before the window of opportunity closes on GP computing altogether. Do something, act, if you want a better future; or do nothing if you don’t. What actions do you suggest people take in support of your viewpoint?
      - doublerabbit 4mo ago
        Make the installer KISS. Linux installation still host the realm of complex verbose jargon. "Starting anaconda", "Enable Kdump", on anything RedHat. Debian spews an ancient terminal window of options upon options and who knows how to install Arch. Linux installations has never been click, click go. Installation wizards are still designed for the tech enabled and not the common user. We have a helicopter on Mars yet they still can't master a installation wizard.
        altairprime 4mo ago
        > We have a helicopter on Mars yet they still can't master a installation wizard. Unexpectedly, the 'bootable thumb drive' models are actually pretty great — not the installers, but the ones that boot straight into a GUI that works and is usable. I haven't used one as my personal Linux uses predated thumb drives, but I have always (mistakenly?) assumed that once you're booted into a liveCD, you can click 'Install on a drive partition' and it will actually do something coherent and GUI and reasonable. Have I been too optimistic? Probably, yeah :(
- rjsw 4mo ago
  Am currently trying to open a business bank account in the UK, several banks require running a proprietary ID validation app.
  - BLKNSLVR 4mo ago
    I want to downvote your comment to register my displeasure with the banks' actions.
- jasonvorhe 4mo ago
  Don't use those services. You're not gonna miss most of the crap after a few weeks anyways. Everything else is consent.
- lifty 4mo ago
  The first wave will be to mandate ID verification for online services. Some people will then start using p2p services, so the next step is to ban devices that can run non-approved software. Probably having your own VPS running your own software will also not be allowed. And like that, all the avenues for escaping control will be closed… for your safety, of course.
- torginus 4mo ago
  I think a lot of them already do, considering you can do things like digitally sign legally binding contracts.
LightBug1 4mo ago
Who said the UK is going to ban VPN? Genuine question. That's news to me and I'm here.
- arbol 4mo ago
  When they realise their social media ban for children doesn't work
- iAMkenough 4mo ago
  Think of the children that will bypass all of the "protections" recently adopted by the UK.
  - gonzalohm 4mo ago
    How would they even do that? A VPN is just a remote machine. Anything can be a VPN
    - ifwinterco 4mo ago
      And some including mullvad already accept payment in crypto, there will always be some dodgy VPN company in some dodgy jurisdiction that will take your BTC in exchange for an account. I don’t think that will stop them trying though
      - Natfan 4mo ago
        mullvad would accept a cash envelope, i don't see how a government will stop that
    - tryauuum 4mo ago
      Like in Russia - drop wireguard / OpenVPN packets crossing the country border - analyze https traffic to detect traffic patterns not matching https fully and block such connections
      - Borealid 4mo ago
spogbiper 4mo ago
https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-organized-crime-preferred-phone-3573578/ https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-organized-crim... “Every time we see a Google Pixel, we suspect it might belong to a drug dealer,” said a police official leading the anti-drug operation in Catalonia.." Seems like some countries/areas are already targeting the Pixel (really its because of GrapheneOS)
- HybridStatAnim8 4mo ago
  It is far more likely that it is due to scams and grifts that pretend to be GrapheneOS, associated with GrapheneOS, or based on GrapheneOS, rather than GrapheneOS itself. Criminals tend to be not that bright.
  - simondotau 4mo ago
    * the criminals we know about
RickS 4mo ago
I regret not signing up for Discord when they first introduced facial recognition and middle schoolers were trivially spoofing their ID checks with meme pics. There's really something to be said for greedily signing up for most things and trying to get grandfathered before the zipcuffs tighten. IRL, though, fuck this. Home depot added flock cams and broad facial recognition, grocery store installed turnstiles, haven't stepped foot in either since. I'm just dropping out of the IRL retail economy left and right.
- jbxntuehineoh 4mo ago
  aren't online purchases even easier to track though?
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
justhave2phones 4mo ago
> - create your escape hatch while you can! I really, really, really dont understand why people keep avoiding saying the obvious. DON'T TREAT YOUR PHONE AS YOUR PRIMARY ENTERTAINMENT DEVICE. Have two phones. One is the real one. The one you use. The other one is the "cops and bank" phone.

by AJRF 4mo ago

leoedin 4mo ago

There must be 10s of millions of x86 PCs with unlocked bioses in the UK. The issue won't be running an open device. The problem is software - what does someone running Linux do if the government mandates online services require proprietary attestation APIs? It's scary how quickly the banning is moving. The problem is what happens next. When they realise that banning things doesn't really work. The next logical step is severely limiting internet traffic.

altairprime 4mo ago
> what does someone running Linux do if the government mandates online services require proprietary attestation APIs? One dual-boots to a reputable Linux vendor’s signed/sealed OS image with secure boot enabled in BIOS, so that the attestations are valid; financially supports said vendor; contacts them quarterly with check-ins on the status of their lockdown+attestation roadmap and uses professional journalism approaches to highlight their (in/)action; and, contacts one’s relevant governing body to petition for the addition of that vendor’s signed/sealed product line to be added to the authorized signatures list by both government-sponsored apps and to the verification platforms of the competing vendors (in order to balance the necessities of attestations with an appropriate degree of anti-monopolistic protections for consumers). > It's scary how quickly the banning is moving. The problem is what happens next. When they realise that banning things doesn't really work This confidence that ‘attestation doesn’t really work’ is the same sort of confidence that lead the Linux user community to largely scoff at, and ignore, attestation’s threat from when it was ballistically launched three decades ago towards the future. Options are now very limited for stopping it, and largely reduced to ‘getting some Linux into the approval list’. Severe compromises in user freedom will be required for the signed+sealed distro images to receive government approvals. Imagine if Linux were an app on a video game console and you start to see the outcome: it’s a perfectly great working environment into which all of /usr/local and /opt and /home are writable, but the lockdown prevents you from modifying the OS in any way that could defeat the attestation protections. Apps you install into /opt can only access their own /opt/prefix, apps you install into /usr/local can access $HOME. The apps you install can choose to write session data (such as digital age verification certificates) to a system-protected /data store keyed first by the kernel’s signature, and second by the vendor signature the kernel reads from the app; with the understanding that an attestation latch-forward after an exploit patch will wipe that store, and that dual-booting to a different vendor will suspend access to sessions stored by that vendor. This is, to climb on my hobby horse for a moment, why I continue to believe that Valve will be the first Linux vendor to receive government attestation approval alongside Apple / Google / Microsoft have previously across the desktop and mobile spaces. I’d really prefer that to be Graphene, Ubuntu, and Valve — but Graphene’s customer base is hostile to this, Ubuntu doesn’t have any incentive to care, and of the Linux vendors out there, Valve has a decade-long head start on the need for a locked-down and attested platform for business reasons. All of the above falls out naturally from considering how to defend one app from another on Android, iOS, Steam Deck, and Xbox. So far as I can tell today, though, Linux intends to be left out in the cold on all this. Oh well.
- dmantis 4mo ago
  >signed/sealed OS image This way we will just have unremovable age verification, spyware, online accounts to use the os, name another bs from other vendors. What's the point of Linux then? The moment big corps and the state can seal spyware into your computer, they'll happily do it. I'd rather have a separate burn device with whatever os for state services which lives in a faraday cage most of the time and have a proper OS I control on the main device than give somebody control over it.
  - altairprime 4mo ago
    I’m with you in spirit, but the ship is sinking, man. Your arguments were already made in the 90s when the first puff of smoke from all this was on the horizon. Thirty years of chicken little later, I’ve moved past being upset about this and am trying instead to persuade the Linux community to step up before the window of opportunity closes on GP computing altogether. Do something, act, if you want a better future; or do nothing if you don’t. What actions do you suggest people take in support of your viewpoint?
    - doublerabbit 4mo ago
      Make the installer KISS. Linux installation still host the realm of complex verbose jargon. "Starting anaconda", "Enable Kdump", on anything RedHat. Debian spews an ancient terminal window of options upon options and who knows how to install Arch. Linux installations has never been click, click go. Installation wizards are still designed for the tech enabled and not the common user. We have a helicopter on Mars yet they still can't master a installation wizard.
      - altairprime 4mo ago
        > We have a helicopter on Mars yet they still can't master a installation wizard. Unexpectedly, the 'bootable thumb drive' models are actually pretty great — not the installers, but the ones that boot straight into a GUI that works and is usable. I haven't used one as my personal Linux uses predated thumb drives, but I have always (mistakenly?) assumed that once you're booted into a liveCD, you can click 'Install on a drive partition' and it will actually do something coherent and GUI and reasonable. Have I been too optimistic? Probably, yeah :(
rjsw 4mo ago
Am currently trying to open a business bank account in the UK, several banks require running a proprietary ID validation app.
- BLKNSLVR 4mo ago
  I want to downvote your comment to register my displeasure with the banks' actions.
jasonvorhe 4mo ago
Don't use those services. You're not gonna miss most of the crap after a few weeks anyways. Everything else is consent.
lifty 4mo ago
The first wave will be to mandate ID verification for online services. Some people will then start using p2p services, so the next step is to ban devices that can run non-approved software. Probably having your own VPS running your own software will also not be allowed. And like that, all the avenues for escaping control will be closed… for your safety, of course.
torginus 4mo ago
I think a lot of them already do, considering you can do things like digitally sign legally binding contracts.

LightBug1 4mo ago

Who said the UK is going to ban VPN? Genuine question. That's news to me and I'm here.

arbol 4mo ago
When they realise their social media ban for children doesn't work
iAMkenough 4mo ago
Think of the children that will bypass all of the "protections" recently adopted by the UK.
- gonzalohm 4mo ago
  How would they even do that? A VPN is just a remote machine. Anything can be a VPN
  - ifwinterco 4mo ago
    And some including mullvad already accept payment in crypto, there will always be some dodgy VPN company in some dodgy jurisdiction that will take your BTC in exchange for an account. I don’t think that will stop them trying though
    - Natfan 4mo ago
      mullvad would accept a cash envelope, i don't see how a government will stop that
  - tryauuum 4mo ago
    Like in Russia - drop wireguard / OpenVPN packets crossing the country border - analyze https traffic to detect traffic patterns not matching https fully and block such connections
    - Borealid 4mo ago

spogbiper 4mo ago

https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-organized-crime-preferred-phone-3573578/ https://www.androidauthority.com/google-pixel-organized-crim... “Every time we see a Google Pixel, we suspect it might belong to a drug dealer,” said a police official leading the anti-drug operation in Catalonia.." Seems like some countries/areas are already targeting the Pixel (really its because of GrapheneOS)

HybridStatAnim8 4mo ago
It is far more likely that it is due to scams and grifts that pretend to be GrapheneOS, associated with GrapheneOS, or based on GrapheneOS, rather than GrapheneOS itself. Criminals tend to be not that bright.
- simondotau 4mo ago
  * the criminals we know about

RickS 4mo ago

I regret not signing up for Discord when they first introduced facial recognition and middle schoolers were trivially spoofing their ID checks with meme pics. There's really something to be said for greedily signing up for most things and trying to get grandfathered before the zipcuffs tighten. IRL, though, fuck this. Home depot added flock cams and broad facial recognition, grocery store installed turnstiles, haven't stepped foot in either since. I'm just dropping out of the IRL retail economy left and right.

jbxntuehineoh 4mo ago
aren't online purchases even easier to track though?
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]

justhave2phones 4mo ago

> - create your escape hatch while you can! I really, really, really dont understand why people keep avoiding saying the obvious. DON'T TREAT YOUR PHONE AS YOUR PRIMARY ENTERTAINMENT DEVICE. Have two phones. One is the real one. The one you use. The other one is the "cops and bank" phone.