4 ms·

>You may agree or disagree with the various laws to various degrees, but you must admit that they exist for a reason. By all means discuss reforms that can be m

by Permit 14y ago

>You may agree or disagree with the various laws to various degrees, but you must admit that they exist for a reason. By all means discuss reforms that can be made, but please stop with the "these laws are stupid" or "serve no purpose" sort of sentiments. How about this: "These laws do not exist in most places and those places haven't descended into anarchy, nor have they suffered any visible damage because they don't have them. Therefore it might be reasonable to suspect these laws aren't needed".

tomkarlo 14y ago
Except they do exist in most places, in one form or another. Can you point to some places that don't require hotel operators to submit to some kind of licensing / regulation? These laws aren't new - UK lodging laws go back several hundred years.
- Permit 14y ago
  An individual offering a short-term sublease is not equivalent to a hotel operator offering tens or hundreds of rooms. Can you point out why you'd equate the two?
  - tomkarlo 14y ago
    Small operators are generally regulated as well, at least in most places. There were small lodging operators (1-5 rooms) long before there were huge hotels. If you run a bed & breakfast (<10 rooms, generally) you are still subject to regulations that a private homeowner would not have to comply with.
    - Dylan16807 14y ago
      It's not just about size. Yes, if someone buys an apartment with three rooms and rents out two of them on a continual basis they should be treated as a hotel. But if they rent out a room on occasion then it's not the same situation.
      - tomkarlo 14y ago
        As a customer, should I expect less protection and safety because of how often the room is rented when I'm not there? Unfortunately, it's impractical if not impossible to regulate behavior based on _frequency_ unless you're going to continually monitor the activity.
- malandrew 14y ago
  If they go back several hundred years then they probably have more to do with rent-seeking than consumer protection, and if that is in fact the motivation for their existence, then they should be eliminated.
  - tomkarlo 14y ago
    Are you saying that based on any fact, or just a personal bias? Do you have any familiarity with fire laws or lodging regulations?
goodcanadian 14y ago
Your premise is flawed. Transient accommodation laws and zoning rules exist throughout North America, Europe, and Australia. I am left to assume they exist in many other places I am less familiar with.
- Permit 14y ago
  I'm unaware of any such law covering short-term subleases in Canada. By "transient accommodation laws", are you speaking about hotels with hundreds of guests, or on an individual short-term sublease level?
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - goodcanadian 14y ago
    Under the BC Residential Tenancy Act, a sublet requires the permission of the landlord though the landlord cannot refuse without good reason. I suspect there are minimum lease lengths, however, or you will indeed fall under transient accommodation (hotel) laws. Regardless, even if I am wrong about that, if you sublet your apartment on anything more than a casual basis, you are running a business. Then, you will almost certainly fall afoul of zoning rules and probably be subject to hotel rules as well. Alberta law is similar; I don't know about any other province, but I would be surprised if there were substantial differences.
wwkeyboard 14y ago
And this, folks, is the breath taking arrogance the article mentions.
danso 14y ago
This is highly specious reasoning. I would guess the vast majority of American municipalities have far fewer regulations in gun possession that NYC, and despite the number of tragic stories that you hear, virtually all of these municipalities are quite civilized and pleasant. So by your reasoning, the gun laws in NYC aren't needed.
- Turing_Machine 14y ago
  "the gun laws in NYC aren't needed." That's right. They aren't. It's always a mystery to me why people just assume that criminals are going to pay attention whatsoever to gun laws.
  - danso 14y ago
    Not to get into a gun control debate here, but my point was that it is ridiculous to argue for the circumvention of the legislative process just because things seem to work in other places. As the saying goes, all politics is local. That said, to address your rhetorical point...it's not just about hardened criminals. It's not an either or situation...there's many types of states between evil criminal and innocent civilian. Just as suicide barriers and other inconveniences actually deter suicides...even though you think that anyone who would commit suicide would bypass them...gun control laws deter those who would commit gun crimes just because they had a gun at the moment. I'll give you a concrete example. In NYC, I've seen pedestrians and cyclists kick and punch cars that nearly run them over...and this is not an uncommon sight during rush hour, this is something I almost NEVER saw anywhere else...because in those places, you had to worry that the driver was legally carrying a gun. In NYC, of course, the driver could conceivably have a gun...but you know what, that is a very unlikely situation, because it is not worth carrying a gun in the event that you get pulled over for a traffic infraction. And so those who might commit a crime out of hotheadedness are significantly inconvenienced by gun control laws...reducing the chance that any hothead fight results in gunfire. And in a city as tightly packed as NYC, that is not a non-trivial benefit. I haven't been in favor of gun control laws in any of the rural areas I've lived, but in NyC, I realize it's a different situation that requires different thinking on the laws.
- 14y ago
pbreit 14y ago
The laws certainly do exist in most places where airbnb is used most (ie, NY, SF, other big cities).

by Permit 14y ago

tomkarlo 14y ago

Except they do exist in most places, in one form or another. Can you point to some places that don't require hotel operators to submit to some kind of licensing / regulation? These laws aren't new - UK lodging laws go back several hundred years.

Permit 14y ago
An individual offering a short-term sublease is not equivalent to a hotel operator offering tens or hundreds of rooms. Can you point out why you'd equate the two?
- tomkarlo 14y ago
  Small operators are generally regulated as well, at least in most places. There were small lodging operators (1-5 rooms) long before there were huge hotels. If you run a bed & breakfast (<10 rooms, generally) you are still subject to regulations that a private homeowner would not have to comply with.
  - Dylan16807 14y ago
    It's not just about size. Yes, if someone buys an apartment with three rooms and rents out two of them on a continual basis they should be treated as a hotel. But if they rent out a room on occasion then it's not the same situation.
    - tomkarlo 14y ago
      As a customer, should I expect less protection and safety because of how often the room is rented when I'm not there? Unfortunately, it's impractical if not impossible to regulate behavior based on _frequency_ unless you're going to continually monitor the activity.
malandrew 14y ago
If they go back several hundred years then they probably have more to do with rent-seeking than consumer protection, and if that is in fact the motivation for their existence, then they should be eliminated.
- tomkarlo 14y ago
  Are you saying that based on any fact, or just a personal bias? Do you have any familiarity with fire laws or lodging regulations?

goodcanadian 14y ago

Your premise is flawed. Transient accommodation laws and zoning rules exist throughout North America, Europe, and Australia. I am left to assume they exist in many other places I am less familiar with.

Permit 14y ago
I'm unaware of any such law covering short-term subleases in Canada. By "transient accommodation laws", are you speaking about hotels with hundreds of guests, or on an individual short-term sublease level?
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- goodcanadian 14y ago
  Under the BC Residential Tenancy Act, a sublet requires the permission of the landlord though the landlord cannot refuse without good reason. I suspect there are minimum lease lengths, however, or you will indeed fall under transient accommodation (hotel) laws. Regardless, even if I am wrong about that, if you sublet your apartment on anything more than a casual basis, you are running a business. Then, you will almost certainly fall afoul of zoning rules and probably be subject to hotel rules as well. Alberta law is similar; I don't know about any other province, but I would be surprised if there were substantial differences.

wwkeyboard 14y ago

And this, folks, is the breath taking arrogance the article mentions.

danso 14y ago

This is highly specious reasoning. I would guess the vast majority of American municipalities have far fewer regulations in gun possession that NYC, and despite the number of tragic stories that you hear, virtually all of these municipalities are quite civilized and pleasant. So by your reasoning, the gun laws in NYC aren't needed.

Turing_Machine 14y ago
"the gun laws in NYC aren't needed." That's right. They aren't. It's always a mystery to me why people just assume that criminals are going to pay attention whatsoever to gun laws.
- danso 14y ago
  Not to get into a gun control debate here, but my point was that it is ridiculous to argue for the circumvention of the legislative process just because things seem to work in other places. As the saying goes, all politics is local. That said, to address your rhetorical point...it's not just about hardened criminals. It's not an either or situation...there's many types of states between evil criminal and innocent civilian. Just as suicide barriers and other inconveniences actually deter suicides...even though you think that anyone who would commit suicide would bypass them...gun control laws deter those who would commit gun crimes just because they had a gun at the moment. I'll give you a concrete example. In NYC, I've seen pedestrians and cyclists kick and punch cars that nearly run them over...and this is not an uncommon sight during rush hour, this is something I almost NEVER saw anywhere else...because in those places, you had to worry that the driver was legally carrying a gun. In NYC, of course, the driver could conceivably have a gun...but you know what, that is a very unlikely situation, because it is not worth carrying a gun in the event that you get pulled over for a traffic infraction. And so those who might commit a crime out of hotheadedness are significantly inconvenienced by gun control laws...reducing the chance that any hothead fight results in gunfire. And in a city as tightly packed as NYC, that is not a non-trivial benefit. I haven't been in favor of gun control laws in any of the rural areas I've lived, but in NyC, I realize it's a different situation that requires different thinking on the laws.
14y ago

pbreit 14y ago

The laws certainly do exist in most places where airbnb is used most (ie, NY, SF, other big cities).