7 ms·

Never talk to the police

117 points by Cider9986 5mo ago

bloppe 5mo ago
I suppose a grain of salt has to be taken for the fact that this is basically an ad
- rybosworld 5mo ago
  Regardless, what they say here is genuinely true and it's worth knowing things like "police are allowed to lie to you". Some people find that sort of thing surprising.
- nobody9999 5mo ago
  You can go find the linked video[0] which long pre-dates any advertisement around it. In fact, the video is 14 years old and doesn't have anyone[1] from the law firm that linked to it in the video. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Duane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Duane
dang 5mo ago
Related: Don't Talk to the Police (2012) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45317167 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45317167 - Sept 2025 (2 comments) Don't Talk to the Police - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24754163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24754163 - Oct 2020 (1 comment) Don't Talk to the Police - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23390344 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23390344 - June 2020 (6 comments) Don't Talk to the Police – James Duane - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19717507 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19717507 - April 2019 (4 comments) Don't Talk to the Police (2012) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15886628 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15886628 - Dec 2017 (165 comments) Don't talk to the police [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6001859 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6001859 - July 2013 (37 comments) Don't talk to the police - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=219758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=219758 - June 2008 (35 comments)
- cryptonector 5mo ago
  There is a reprise, too. In 2014 the SCOTUS weakened 5A rights significantly, so now you are best off asserting your 6A rights (i.e., say you won't talk without your lawyer present, and then really don't talk).
mothballed 5mo ago
Lawyers will damn you no matter what you do. AT one point I was accused of kidnapping my own child as a result of racial discrimination where a caller called in that the child was a different race so I must have kidnapped them. I later contacted a civil rights attorney to see if there was any case for racial profiling, but instead they took the opportunity to eviscerate me for not talking my way out of detention. Truth is lawyer will say whatever you did is wrong because the premise of client fucking things up is often just a more convenient explanation.
- normalaccess 5mo ago
  yes, there is a fine line between "Don't Talk" and standing up for your rights. I feel like it's advisable to speak up when your rights are being violated. I can't quite put the words on what I mean but I think stating a fact like "This is my kid" is A-ok.
  - Cider9986 5mo ago
    I'm also curious should you not answer a question about weapons in the car? I would honestly say it couldn't help because it's not like they'd believe you if you said no and saying yes could make them suspicious. So while it seems like something that would be important to answer for safety, maybe it's safer to decline to answer. Of course, if they're threatening you, you should comply because the place to fight is in the courtroom, not on the road.
- SoftTalker 5mo ago
  Lawyers will will say whatever you did is wrong so that you will pay them to tell you what is right. A lawyer is not on your side until you have formally engaged his or her services.
aomix 5mo ago
James Duane, the lawyer from the famous video about never talking to the police, wrote a book called You Have the Right to Remain Innocent. It’s a great read if you want to feel very sad.
aquarious_ 5mo ago
[flagged]
- convolvatron 5mo ago
  I think it's very helpful to understand that the police have their own agenda and a completely different perspective on the situation as you. they don't really give a shit about your problems, if they show up, its to see if there's anything that intersects with their world. this is why even as a victim talking with the police is a deeply confusing process -they seem to care a lot about stuff that doesn't matter as well as not being that interested in whatever crime may have occurred. and depending on the circumstance you could easily be the one getting your legs kicked apart. you learn that eventually, but some hints probably help
- pstuart 5mo ago
  SCOTUS has ruled that the police are not obligated to "protect and serve"; the police are not on your side. Respectfully exercising one's rights is a sensible choice when engaged with them.
- FatherOfCurses 5mo ago
  In the United States at least, 99% of the time when you are approached by the police, you are suspected of a crime. They are given wide latitude in using their feelings rather than facts to evaluate whether you should be taken into custody, physically harmed, or even killed. They are protected from consequences of poor decisions by strong unions and the concept of qualified immunity. There is vast evidence out there about why on average they cannot be trusted to deal with you fairly.
  - AnimalMuppet 5mo ago
    Yeah, um, I don't believe your 99% number. Got a source for that number?
    - infecto 5mo ago
      99% is hyperbole but sadly so much of modern policing is structured to extract the maximum number of arrests. From the corridors throughout the US where local LEOs use cash rules to seize money for their own use or from some of the silly reasons police will stop you at night as a justification for further probing.
seethishat 5mo ago
It is OK to talk to them. Just don't lie and don't answer questions. Doing either could land you in jail.
- supertroop 5mo ago
  Did you watch the video? It is never ok to talk to the police unless you’re a rich white dude.
- kelseyfrog 5mo ago
  Maybe watch the video? This position is explicitly called out as nonviable. You still put yourself at major risk if you employ it.
- Cider9986 5mo ago
  Talking never helps, it cannot help. Nothing you say to cops can help you. Even if it's completely entirely true and they believe it and they like you and that's enough for me. It can only hurt you.
  - FishAngular12 5mo ago
    Actually it can help me if it helps solve a crime. The solving of a crime is good for society, actually. I live in a society, after all
    - Cider9986 5mo ago
      Prevention of unethical behavior is good, but the scenario we are talking about is primarily police investigating you.
      - AnimalMuppet 5mo ago
        OK, but that's a huge caveat that is never stated when we have this discussion, isn't it? "Don't talk to the cops when they're investigating you" is massively different from "don't talk to cops, ever". And yeah, I know, it may not always be obvious whether they are investigating you, especially if they are willing to lie or be deceptive. (If they're really investigating you, you may not even realize that you're talking to cops.) On the other hand, it might be clear enough sometimes that they are not for me to be willing to talk to them.
normalaccess 5mo ago
Sometimes it's smart to be silent. Pro 17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.
- FireBeyond 5mo ago
  Note that in the US, you need to verbally assert your right to remain silent. Merely being silent means the prosecution is able describe your communication as "refused to cooperate with or answer questions from law enforcement" which is a "negative" finding, whereas the right to remain silent is at least meant to be interpreted neutrally.
  - normalaccess 5mo ago
    That is a very good point depending on the situation. On the flip side, abstaining from the process and remaining silent (but still compliant) can put a spotlight on injustice if there be any.
jwr 5mo ago
I live in a country where you can now consider police to be "on your side": in other words, policing. It used not to be the case, so I can appreciate this. In light of this, I find the comments of the police officer invited to the youtube talk about how lucky the listeners are to be in the US (because police in other countries is so terrible) somewhat amusing. In the US one should generally be terrified of the police, especially if one's skin color doesn't happen to be white. Plus everything that was said in the talk.
Brendinooo 5mo ago
>that means one of two things: 1) You are a suspect; 2) You are a possible suspect. While I suppose this is strictly true, the far more likely option for 2 is that you're a witness to the crime and you can therefore help that crime be solved. So, in a situation where I am approached by the police to answer questions about something I know I didn't do: 1. I talk, and it helps the police solve a case 2. I talk, and it screws me 3. I don't talk, and it contributes to a case not being solved 4. I don't talk, and it screws me I read stuff like this article and it tells you about 2, but it doesn't really put that into a broader context about the likelihood that 2 is the outcome. And there is a real decision to be made here!
- Arainach 5mo ago
  What would an example of #4 look like? Don't lie to the cops, but refusing to answer without a lawyer present should hold no legal consequences.
  - lwansbrough 5mo ago
    If you match a description and are in the general vicinity of where the crime took place, it’s enough reasonable suspicion for a detainment. Whether or not you need to produce ID at that point may vary by state but it’s likely the case in every state. If it’s legal for the police to demand your ID and you don’t, you can be arrested for failure to identify. Now they don’t have probable cause for an arrest based on the original crime they stopped you for, but your day is still ruined.
    - wat10000 5mo ago
      "Don't talk to police" doesn't include legally required things like identification. What you don't do is volunteer more than you're legally required to provide.
      - lwansbrough 5mo ago
        This sounds obvious but a lot of people don’t understand this.
lwansbrough 5mo ago
It’s really important to know your rights. A lot of people think they know, but often times they don’t. And it gets those people in trouble. For example, you are required to provide identification when operating a vehicle at a traffic stop. No exceptions. Don’t get hung up on the reason for the stop, it doesn’t matter. Additionally, police can articulate in virtually any situation that they fear for officer safety, which is reason enough in many states to order you out of the vehicle. At this point they have a foundation to frisk you for a weapon. Resisting at any point of this is very risky. Understanding when and where an officer doesn’t have the legal authority to do the above gets very nuanced. But generally I encourage Americans to learn the rights they have when operating a car seeing as their lives revolve around driving.
- m348e912 5mo ago
  This is so true, and it's surprising how many people don't know what they are obligated to do when asked by an officer. It's even fuzzy for me at times. It should be well known that you are required to show ID if pulled over [Whren v. United States (1996)], your passenger is required to show his or her ID [Brendlin v. California (2007) & Arizona v. Johnson (2009)] , and you must exist the vehicle if asked to do so [Pennsylvania v. Mimms (1977) (for drivers) & Maryland v. Wilson (1997) (for passengers)]. All of these requirements have been litigated to the supreme court. You should also know the difference between probably cause and reasonable suspicion. We should add these topics to high school civics or something.
  - happytoexplain 5mo ago
    I'm going to charitably guess that you do not mean "surprising" in the common way, as in "wow, I can't explain why people don't know this laundry list of requests you are or are not required to comply with"; but rather as in "it's surprising that we find ourselves in this hellish society where citizens need to memorize a bunch of shit or else live in fear of every police interaction where they might sacrifice a right they didn't need to or vice versa and get handcuffed." Police should not be allowed to put you in that situation, period. Then you can teach everybody that one fact, instead of an incomplete list of one-off rules (that are apparently not even easy to interpret, as demonstrated by the other replies to your comment).
thenoblesunfish 5mo ago
Never frobnicate without a flangleharp, says the flangleharp salesman. He could be right, but you would probably want to ask someone else.
- RickS 5mo ago
  If you watch the video (which is classic and the real content here), the lawyer cedes the second half to a career detective, who agrees with him in full.
linsomniac 5mo ago
TL;DR: Never talk to the police. In fairness I'm going to give half my time to a police detective. Detective: He's right, never talk to the police. This is a classic! it's informative but also entertaining.
- Cider9986 5mo ago
  This is a classic internet video for sure. One of my favorites to share. If anyone has any other videos like this (usefulness, vibes, any topic) I would appreciate recs.
  - phkahler 5mo ago
    I find Lehto's Law on Youtube to be quite entertaining while also informative: https://www.youtube.com/@stevelehto https://www.youtube.com/@stevelehto
thayne 5mo ago
But lawyers are expensive, and if it turns out you are just a witness, you are going to be spending a lot of money for nothing. And then consider if you are are the spouse or parent of a murder victim or missing person, and are innocent. You are almost certainly going to be a potential suspect, but you also want to help them find the actual criminal, and if hiring a lawyer makes you "look guilty", then the police might focus their investigation on you rather than finding the real perpetrator.
- linsomniac 5mo ago
  >But lawyers are expensive Maybe, but it can also be VERY expensive to NOT have a lawyer. I have a lawyer that offers free 30 minute initial conversations. But I also practically beg her to charge me for her time because it's valuable to me to get her take on the situation.
  - thayne 5mo ago
    This is an example of the Vimes Boots theory. If you are well enough off that you can afford a lawyer, you might be better off in the long run, while someone who doesn't have the disposable income for a lawyer can end up losing more than the cost of the lawyer.
- spelk 5mo ago
  >And then consider if you are are the spouse or parent of a murder victim or missing person, and are innocent. You are almost certainly going to be a potential suspect, but you also want to help them find the actual criminal, and if hiring a lawyer makes you "look guilty", then the police might focus their investigation on you rather than finding the real perpetrator. I agree. This is a real problem in law enforcement. The issue is that while they're competing interests, my right to remain innocent should rationally supersede the deep profound desire for justice (but I recognize it rarely plays out this way).
  - thayne 5mo ago
    In a missing person case, it isn't just justice, you also want your loved one back (assuming they are still alive).
assimpleaspossi 5mo ago
The type of person who gets themselves in a situation where they can become a suspect is one that I can't see getting into. It makes me question what the person did to have this happen to them. I lead a normal life. I've never gotten into a situation where this could ever possibly concern me. I'm betting the vast majority of people who visit HN (and aren't commenting here) wouldn't have this issue, either. I do not fear the police. The police have helped me in several situations such as car accidents. At my business they discovered my back door open and, within minutes, caught the person who stole something. My car got side swiped overnight and they walked the street to see if any neighbor had a camera. And on and on. You wouldn't find me in an illegal situation involving the police except if I happened to be there. But I wouldn't fear being hauled off to jail cause that just won't happen except on the internet.
- phkahler 5mo ago
  You are probably right most of the time, but that also depends where you are.
- rationalist 5mo ago
  There's always the wrong-time-wrong-place situation, as well as running into an officer who is having a bad day or behind on his quota - lots of stories of police pulling over people who blow 0.0 on the breathalyzer and arrest them anyway for their quota. Reminds me of the "I've got nothing to hide" mentality. Just because I'm not breaking the law, doesn't mean I want to make it easy for bad people to abuse me.
- patwork 5mo ago
  That's where this part applies to you: > NO, YOU CAN'T TALK THEM OUT OF IT > No, they don’t care about your story If you are suspected of a crime, your inclination is going to be to explain the situation because it must be a mistake. If you find yourself suspected of a crime, you should talk to a lawyer, not the police. People unknowingly break laws every day, yourself included. You have a right not to incriminate yourself. It is not fearing the police to recognize that innocent people get swept up in the bureaucratic law enforcement machine all the time. Talking to the police can only hurt you in this situation. Finally, your examples are all examples where you were the victim of a crime, which is covered in the article.
iwhalen 5mo ago
A lot of discussion in this thread about traffic stops. James Duane (the law professor from the video in the blog) himself makes a qualifier about traffic stops: https://youtu.be/-FENubmZGj8?si=bL_1vR0xFKQqkmC5&t=505 https://youtu.be/-FENubmZGj8?si=bL_1vR0xFKQqkmC5&t=505
- mplanchard 5mo ago
  Thanks for the link to this! The whole talk is a great follow up to the original, and convinced me to buy his book
IAmBroom 5mo ago
These topics are always far more complicated than these experts claim. My case in point: A neighbor's child was violently mentally ill. I have made my house a safe haven for her children on occasion, and at times have gone into her house to discreetly escort them out past the violent child. Then the police show up, either because she was able to call them, or I did. At that point, a refusal to provide witness information to the police would increase the danger for both the child (who I stress is mentally ill, not simply being a violent asshole), the mother, and the police. In situations involving the police reacting to 911 calls to that house, I always answer their questions. At this point, I get "I remember this guy - you're a neighbor, right?" - because we've done this dance so many times. Another instance - I noted someone hiding (with really obvious peaks around the corner) at the side of a house while driving home. Found multiple police cars parked on and near my block. I walked up and told the first cop I met where the "hide-and-go-seek" loser was, and answered their questions about his appearance. Hell yes I wanted to answer them. Rando policeman stopping you and asking you questions is very different from having a local emergency, and wanting your locale to be safer. Yeah, maybe in some fantasy situation the cops could have arrested me for something during that domestic situation at my neighbors, but I value her life and her kids' lives above that paranoid outlook.
Lockal 5mo ago
Sure, let lawyers spam HN every year with this narrative. Never do anything without a lawyer. Never self-host a website. Never use VPS either, use cloud. But don't try to setup cloud yourself - use our platform in the middle. Don't accept payments, use our solution in the middle. Connect with your customers by using our [A-Z]AAS, powered by AI, but don't use AI provider, use intermediate provider, which proxies your requests to providers. Don't bother with analytics, just install our analytics service that will charge you just a $ per one thousand lines of logs. And if you feel sick of this - consult a doctor, but don't try to find the solution yourself. Yours sincerely, man in the middle.

117 points by Cider9986 5mo ago

bloppe 5mo ago

I suppose a grain of salt has to be taken for the fact that this is basically an ad

rybosworld 5mo ago
Regardless, what they say here is genuinely true and it's worth knowing things like "police are allowed to lie to you". Some people find that sort of thing surprising.
nobody9999 5mo ago
You can go find the linked video[0] which long pre-dates any advertisement around it. In fact, the video is 14 years old and doesn't have anyone[1] from the law firm that linked to it in the video. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Duane https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Duane

dang 5mo ago

Related: Don't Talk to the Police (2012) [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45317167 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45317167 - Sept 2025 (2 comments) Don't Talk to the Police - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24754163 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24754163 - Oct 2020 (1 comment) Don't Talk to the Police - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23390344 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23390344 - June 2020 (6 comments) Don't Talk to the Police – James Duane - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19717507 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19717507 - April 2019 (4 comments) Don't Talk to the Police (2012) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15886628 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15886628 - Dec 2017 (165 comments) Don't talk to the police [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6001859 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6001859 - July 2013 (37 comments) Don't talk to the police - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=219758 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=219758 - June 2008 (35 comments)

cryptonector 5mo ago
There is a reprise, too. In 2014 the SCOTUS weakened 5A rights significantly, so now you are best off asserting your 6A rights (i.e., say you won't talk without your lawyer present, and then really don't talk).

mothballed 5mo ago

Lawyers will damn you no matter what you do. AT one point I was accused of kidnapping my own child as a result of racial discrimination where a caller called in that the child was a different race so I must have kidnapped them. I later contacted a civil rights attorney to see if there was any case for racial profiling, but instead they took the opportunity to eviscerate me for not talking my way out of detention. Truth is lawyer will say whatever you did is wrong because the premise of client fucking things up is often just a more convenient explanation.

normalaccess 5mo ago
yes, there is a fine line between "Don't Talk" and standing up for your rights. I feel like it's advisable to speak up when your rights are being violated. I can't quite put the words on what I mean but I think stating a fact like "This is my kid" is A-ok.
- Cider9986 5mo ago
  I'm also curious should you not answer a question about weapons in the car? I would honestly say it couldn't help because it's not like they'd believe you if you said no and saying yes could make them suspicious. So while it seems like something that would be important to answer for safety, maybe it's safer to decline to answer. Of course, if they're threatening you, you should comply because the place to fight is in the courtroom, not on the road.
SoftTalker 5mo ago
Lawyers will will say whatever you did is wrong so that you will pay them to tell you what is right. A lawyer is not on your side until you have formally engaged his or her services.

aomix 5mo ago

James Duane, the lawyer from the famous video about never talking to the police, wrote a book called You Have the Right to Remain Innocent. It’s a great read if you want to feel very sad.

aquarious_ 5mo ago

[flagged]

convolvatron 5mo ago
I think it's very helpful to understand that the police have their own agenda and a completely different perspective on the situation as you. they don't really give a shit about your problems, if they show up, its to see if there's anything that intersects with their world. this is why even as a victim talking with the police is a deeply confusing process -they seem to care a lot about stuff that doesn't matter as well as not being that interested in whatever crime may have occurred. and depending on the circumstance you could easily be the one getting your legs kicked apart. you learn that eventually, but some hints probably help
pstuart 5mo ago
SCOTUS has ruled that the police are not obligated to "protect and serve"; the police are not on your side. Respectfully exercising one's rights is a sensible choice when engaged with them.
FatherOfCurses 5mo ago
In the United States at least, 99% of the time when you are approached by the police, you are suspected of a crime. They are given wide latitude in using their feelings rather than facts to evaluate whether you should be taken into custody, physically harmed, or even killed. They are protected from consequences of poor decisions by strong unions and the concept of qualified immunity. There is vast evidence out there about why on average they cannot be trusted to deal with you fairly.
- AnimalMuppet 5mo ago
  Yeah, um, I don't believe your 99% number. Got a source for that number?
  - infecto 5mo ago
    99% is hyperbole but sadly so much of modern policing is structured to extract the maximum number of arrests. From the corridors throughout the US where local LEOs use cash rules to seize money for their own use or from some of the silly reasons police will stop you at night as a justification for further probing.

seethishat 5mo ago

It is OK to talk to them. Just don't lie and don't answer questions. Doing either could land you in jail.

supertroop 5mo ago
Did you watch the video? It is never ok to talk to the police unless you’re a rich white dude.
kelseyfrog 5mo ago
Maybe watch the video? This position is explicitly called out as nonviable. You still put yourself at major risk if you employ it.
Cider9986 5mo ago
Talking never helps, it cannot help. Nothing you say to cops can help you. Even if it's completely entirely true and they believe it and they like you and that's enough for me. It can only hurt you.
- FishAngular12 5mo ago
  Actually it can help me if it helps solve a crime. The solving of a crime is good for society, actually. I live in a society, after all
  - Cider9986 5mo ago
    Prevention of unethical behavior is good, but the scenario we are talking about is primarily police investigating you.
    - AnimalMuppet 5mo ago
      OK, but that's a huge caveat that is never stated when we have this discussion, isn't it? "Don't talk to the cops when they're investigating you" is massively different from "don't talk to cops, ever". And yeah, I know, it may not always be obvious whether they are investigating you, especially if they are willing to lie or be deceptive. (If they're really investigating you, you may not even realize that you're talking to cops.) On the other hand, it might be clear enough sometimes that they are not for me to be willing to talk to them.

normalaccess 5mo ago

Sometimes it's smart to be silent. Pro 17:28 Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

FireBeyond 5mo ago
Note that in the US, you need to verbally assert your right to remain silent. Merely being silent means the prosecution is able describe your communication as "refused to cooperate with or answer questions from law enforcement" which is a "negative" finding, whereas the right to remain silent is at least meant to be interpreted neutrally.
- normalaccess 5mo ago
  That is a very good point depending on the situation. On the flip side, abstaining from the process and remaining silent (but still compliant) can put a spotlight on injustice if there be any.

jwr 5mo ago

I live in a country where you can now consider police to be "on your side": in other words, policing. It used not to be the case, so I can appreciate this. In light of this, I find the comments of the police officer invited to the youtube talk about how lucky the listeners are to be in the US (because police in other countries is so terrible) somewhat amusing. In the US one should generally be terrified of the police, especially if one's skin color doesn't happen to be white. Plus everything that was said in the talk.

Brendinooo 5mo ago

>that means one of two things: 1) You are a suspect; 2) You are a possible suspect. While I suppose this is strictly true, the far more likely option for 2 is that you're a witness to the crime and you can therefore help that crime be solved. So, in a situation where I am approached by the police to answer questions about something I know I didn't do: 1. I talk, and it helps the police solve a case 2. I talk, and it screws me 3. I don't talk, and it contributes to a case not being solved 4. I don't talk, and it screws me I read stuff like this article and it tells you about 2, but it doesn't really put that into a broader context about the likelihood that 2 is the outcome. And there is a real decision to be made here!

Arainach 5mo ago
What would an example of #4 look like? Don't lie to the cops, but refusing to answer without a lawyer present should hold no legal consequences.
- lwansbrough 5mo ago
  If you match a description and are in the general vicinity of where the crime took place, it’s enough reasonable suspicion for a detainment. Whether or not you need to produce ID at that point may vary by state but it’s likely the case in every state. If it’s legal for the police to demand your ID and you don’t, you can be arrested for failure to identify. Now they don’t have probable cause for an arrest based on the original crime they stopped you for, but your day is still ruined.
  - wat10000 5mo ago
    "Don't talk to police" doesn't include legally required things like identification. What you don't do is volunteer more than you're legally required to provide.
    - lwansbrough 5mo ago
      This sounds obvious but a lot of people don’t understand this.

lwansbrough 5mo ago

It’s really important to know your rights. A lot of people think they know, but often times they don’t. And it gets those people in trouble. For example, you are required to provide identification when operating a vehicle at a traffic stop. No exceptions. Don’t get hung up on the reason for the stop, it doesn’t matter. Additionally, police can articulate in virtually any situation that they fear for officer safety, which is reason enough in many states to order you out of the vehicle. At this point they have a foundation to frisk you for a weapon. Resisting at any point of this is very risky. Understanding when and where an officer doesn’t have the legal authority to do the above gets very nuanced. But generally I encourage Americans to learn the rights they have when operating a car seeing as their lives revolve around driving.

m348e912 5mo ago
This is so true, and it's surprising how many people don't know what they are obligated to do when asked by an officer. It's even fuzzy for me at times. It should be well known that you are required to show ID if pulled over [Whren v. United States (1996)], your passenger is required to show his or her ID [Brendlin v. California (2007) & Arizona v. Johnson (2009)] , and you must exist the vehicle if asked to do so [Pennsylvania v. Mimms (1977) (for drivers) & Maryland v. Wilson (1997) (for passengers)]. All of these requirements have been litigated to the supreme court. You should also know the difference between probably cause and reasonable suspicion. We should add these topics to high school civics or something.
- happytoexplain 5mo ago
  I'm going to charitably guess that you do not mean "surprising" in the common way, as in "wow, I can't explain why people don't know this laundry list of requests you are or are not required to comply with"; but rather as in "it's surprising that we find ourselves in this hellish society where citizens need to memorize a bunch of shit or else live in fear of every police interaction where they might sacrifice a right they didn't need to or vice versa and get handcuffed." Police should not be allowed to put you in that situation, period. Then you can teach everybody that one fact, instead of an incomplete list of one-off rules (that are apparently not even easy to interpret, as demonstrated by the other replies to your comment).

thenoblesunfish 5mo ago

Never frobnicate without a flangleharp, says the flangleharp salesman. He could be right, but you would probably want to ask someone else.

RickS 5mo ago
If you watch the video (which is classic and the real content here), the lawyer cedes the second half to a career detective, who agrees with him in full.

linsomniac 5mo ago

TL;DR: Never talk to the police. In fairness I'm going to give half my time to a police detective. Detective: He's right, never talk to the police. This is a classic! it's informative but also entertaining.

Cider9986 5mo ago
This is a classic internet video for sure. One of my favorites to share. If anyone has any other videos like this (usefulness, vibes, any topic) I would appreciate recs.
- phkahler 5mo ago
  I find Lehto's Law on Youtube to be quite entertaining while also informative: https://www.youtube.com/@stevelehto https://www.youtube.com/@stevelehto

thayne 5mo ago

But lawyers are expensive, and if it turns out you are just a witness, you are going to be spending a lot of money for nothing. And then consider if you are are the spouse or parent of a murder victim or missing person, and are innocent. You are almost certainly going to be a potential suspect, but you also want to help them find the actual criminal, and if hiring a lawyer makes you "look guilty", then the police might focus their investigation on you rather than finding the real perpetrator.

linsomniac 5mo ago
>But lawyers are expensive Maybe, but it can also be VERY expensive to NOT have a lawyer. I have a lawyer that offers free 30 minute initial conversations. But I also practically beg her to charge me for her time because it's valuable to me to get her take on the situation.
- thayne 5mo ago
  This is an example of the Vimes Boots theory. If you are well enough off that you can afford a lawyer, you might be better off in the long run, while someone who doesn't have the disposable income for a lawyer can end up losing more than the cost of the lawyer.
spelk 5mo ago
>And then consider if you are are the spouse or parent of a murder victim or missing person, and are innocent. You are almost certainly going to be a potential suspect, but you also want to help them find the actual criminal, and if hiring a lawyer makes you "look guilty", then the police might focus their investigation on you rather than finding the real perpetrator. I agree. This is a real problem in law enforcement. The issue is that while they're competing interests, my right to remain innocent should rationally supersede the deep profound desire for justice (but I recognize it rarely plays out this way).
- thayne 5mo ago
  In a missing person case, it isn't just justice, you also want your loved one back (assuming they are still alive).

assimpleaspossi 5mo ago

The type of person who gets themselves in a situation where they can become a suspect is one that I can't see getting into. It makes me question what the person did to have this happen to them. I lead a normal life. I've never gotten into a situation where this could ever possibly concern me. I'm betting the vast majority of people who visit HN (and aren't commenting here) wouldn't have this issue, either. I do not fear the police. The police have helped me in several situations such as car accidents. At my business they discovered my back door open and, within minutes, caught the person who stole something. My car got side swiped overnight and they walked the street to see if any neighbor had a camera. And on and on. You wouldn't find me in an illegal situation involving the police except if I happened to be there. But I wouldn't fear being hauled off to jail cause that just won't happen except on the internet.

phkahler 5mo ago
You are probably right most of the time, but that also depends where you are.
rationalist 5mo ago
There's always the wrong-time-wrong-place situation, as well as running into an officer who is having a bad day or behind on his quota - lots of stories of police pulling over people who blow 0.0 on the breathalyzer and arrest them anyway for their quota. Reminds me of the "I've got nothing to hide" mentality. Just because I'm not breaking the law, doesn't mean I want to make it easy for bad people to abuse me.
patwork 5mo ago
That's where this part applies to you: > NO, YOU CAN'T TALK THEM OUT OF IT > No, they don’t care about your story If you are suspected of a crime, your inclination is going to be to explain the situation because it must be a mistake. If you find yourself suspected of a crime, you should talk to a lawyer, not the police. People unknowingly break laws every day, yourself included. You have a right not to incriminate yourself. It is not fearing the police to recognize that innocent people get swept up in the bureaucratic law enforcement machine all the time. Talking to the police can only hurt you in this situation. Finally, your examples are all examples where you were the victim of a crime, which is covered in the article.

iwhalen 5mo ago

A lot of discussion in this thread about traffic stops. James Duane (the law professor from the video in the blog) himself makes a qualifier about traffic stops: https://youtu.be/-FENubmZGj8?si=bL_1vR0xFKQqkmC5&t=505 https://youtu.be/-FENubmZGj8?si=bL_1vR0xFKQqkmC5&t=505

mplanchard 5mo ago
Thanks for the link to this! The whole talk is a great follow up to the original, and convinced me to buy his book

IAmBroom 5mo ago

These topics are always far more complicated than these experts claim. My case in point: A neighbor's child was violently mentally ill. I have made my house a safe haven for her children on occasion, and at times have gone into her house to discreetly escort them out past the violent child. Then the police show up, either because she was able to call them, or I did. At that point, a refusal to provide witness information to the police would increase the danger for both the child (who I stress is mentally ill, not simply being a violent asshole), the mother, and the police. In situations involving the police reacting to 911 calls to that house, I always answer their questions. At this point, I get "I remember this guy - you're a neighbor, right?" - because we've done this dance so many times. Another instance - I noted someone hiding (with really obvious peaks around the corner) at the side of a house while driving home. Found multiple police cars parked on and near my block. I walked up and told the first cop I met where the "hide-and-go-seek" loser was, and answered their questions about his appearance. Hell yes I wanted to answer them. Rando policeman stopping you and asking you questions is very different from having a local emergency, and wanting your locale to be safer. Yeah, maybe in some fantasy situation the cops could have arrested me for something during that domestic situation at my neighbors, but I value her life and her kids' lives above that paranoid outlook.

Lockal 5mo ago

Sure, let lawyers spam HN every year with this narrative. Never do anything without a lawyer. Never self-host a website. Never use VPS either, use cloud. But don't try to setup cloud yourself - use our platform in the middle. Don't accept payments, use our solution in the middle. Connect with your customers by using our [A-Z]AAS, powered by AI, but don't use AI provider, use intermediate provider, which proxies your requests to providers. Don't bother with analytics, just install our analytics service that will charge you just a $ per one thousand lines of logs. And if you feel sick of this - consult a doctor, but don't try to find the solution yourself. Yours sincerely, man in the middle.