4 ms·

I never quite understood why there are Olympic medals for Butterfly swimming, but not things like "100m hop-on-one-foot sprint" Like, why is being good at a de

by Bratmon 4mo ago

I never quite understood why there are Olympic medals for Butterfly swimming, but not things like "100m hop-on-one-foot sprint" Like, why is being good at a deliberately-inefficent form of movement worth a medal in only this one case?

skinfaxi 4mo ago
Deliberately-inefficient compared to what? TFA leads with: > Swimmers and coaches began to realise that breaststroke was quicker when a swimmer recovered their arms forward above the water and the arm technique – as well as the swimming term ‘butterfly’ – was born.
- john_strinlai 4mo ago
  the butterfly stroke is the most energy-inefficient stroke, i believe, despite being quicker.
- Bratmon 4mo ago
  I noticed the article pointedly didn't compare the stroke to the forward crawl, which is clearly both faster and more efficient. There's no real way to compare the butterfly and the forward crawl that doesn't make the butterfly look like a ridiculous farce.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
- marttt 4mo ago
  This whole story somehow reminds me of the Fosbury flop technique in high jump -- amazingly, Dick Fosbury started to develop it at the age of 16: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Fosbury#High_school_and_the_origins_of_the_Fosbury_Flop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Fosbury#High_school_and_t... From the Wikipedia article on Fosbury: "The technique gained the name the "Fosbury Flop" when in 1964 the Medford Mail-Tribune ran a photo captioned "Fosbury Flops Over Bar," while in an accompanying article a reporter wrote that he looked like "a fish flopping in a boat." Others were even less kind, with one newspaper captioning Fosbury's photograph, "World's Laziest High Jumper""
tokai 4mo ago
>deliberately-inefficent If that's how we judge things, there should only be races on bicycles.
- ggreer 4mo ago
  Allowing a bicycle would be like if swimming competitions allowed fins. A more accurate mapping to the swimming strokes would be race walking, which is widely ridiculed.
  - tokai 4mo ago
    No, if efficiency can be used to evaluate if a sport is legit, only cycling should be allowed. No running or swimming. The point is that efficiency is an asinine ground to judge a sport on.
  - jolt42 4mo ago
    Agreed. Wasn't track barefoot back in the day? I mean even shoes are an advantage. Swimming sped up after goggles and swimcaps were accepted. I think it's all just where do you decide to draw the line? I've thought badminton is an odd sport, the shuttlecock is so slow anyone can (normally) play it - it's very inefficient. And don't get me started on equestrian if grandpa can win it then shouldn't the horse get the medal?
    - ggreer 4mo ago
      For sprints, shoes give additional traction for faster starts, but don't increase running efficiency. For distance events, shoes were just extra weight, and barefoot runners have won Olympic competitions.[1] Recently, springy "super shoe" designs have shown up.[2] They've been banned from most competitions, but it looks like less effective versions of the design are still allowed under current rules. I would prefer that shoes be restricted to designs that don't allow for higher efficiency than barefoot running, but sport rules tend to lag technology advances. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abebe_Bikila https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abebe_Bikila 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Vaporfly_and_Tokyo_2020_Olympics_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Vaporfly_and_Tokyo_2020_O...
ggreer 4mo ago
This quirk of competition is why swimmers can win a ridiculous number of medals. If swimming only had freestyle, Michael Phelps would have 7 gold medals instead of 23.
gosub100 4mo ago
There are much bigger problems with the Olympics than that. Such as selling the rights and advertising for billions while paying the athletes nothing.
forinti 4mo ago
The first modern Olympics did have sack races. That would be entertaining.
DennisP 4mo ago
That's a funny take and I'm tempted to agree, since butterfly was the bane of my existence as a skinny swimmer in high school. But hopping on one foot was never a rule hack that gave you an advantage in some preexisting event. Butterfly was, and rather than banning it they made it a new event. Plus it looks cool, if you're a lot better at it than I was.
Angostura 4mo ago
You’re familiar with the walking competition?
polyrand 4mo ago
I believe that's like saying we should only have a single "throw" event in athletics. Or why having hurdles events when you already have regular running ones. I like that we can have more variety, more people competing, and overall different modalities to test human performance.

by Bratmon 4mo ago

skinfaxi 4mo ago

Deliberately-inefficient compared to what? TFA leads with: > Swimmers and coaches began to realise that breaststroke was quicker when a swimmer recovered their arms forward above the water and the arm technique – as well as the swimming term ‘butterfly’ – was born.

john_strinlai 4mo ago
the butterfly stroke is the most energy-inefficient stroke, i believe, despite being quicker.
Bratmon 4mo ago
I noticed the article pointedly didn't compare the stroke to the forward crawl, which is clearly both faster and more efficient. There's no real way to compare the butterfly and the forward crawl that doesn't make the butterfly look like a ridiculous farce.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
marttt 4mo ago
This whole story somehow reminds me of the Fosbury flop technique in high jump -- amazingly, Dick Fosbury started to develop it at the age of 16: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Fosbury#High_school_and_the_origins_of_the_Fosbury_Flop https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Fosbury#High_school_and_t... From the Wikipedia article on Fosbury: "The technique gained the name the "Fosbury Flop" when in 1964 the Medford Mail-Tribune ran a photo captioned "Fosbury Flops Over Bar," while in an accompanying article a reporter wrote that he looked like "a fish flopping in a boat." Others were even less kind, with one newspaper captioning Fosbury's photograph, "World's Laziest High Jumper""

tokai 4mo ago

>deliberately-inefficent If that's how we judge things, there should only be races on bicycles.

ggreer 4mo ago
Allowing a bicycle would be like if swimming competitions allowed fins. A more accurate mapping to the swimming strokes would be race walking, which is widely ridiculed.
- tokai 4mo ago
  No, if efficiency can be used to evaluate if a sport is legit, only cycling should be allowed. No running or swimming. The point is that efficiency is an asinine ground to judge a sport on.
- jolt42 4mo ago
  Agreed. Wasn't track barefoot back in the day? I mean even shoes are an advantage. Swimming sped up after goggles and swimcaps were accepted. I think it's all just where do you decide to draw the line? I've thought badminton is an odd sport, the shuttlecock is so slow anyone can (normally) play it - it's very inefficient. And don't get me started on equestrian if grandpa can win it then shouldn't the horse get the medal?
  - ggreer 4mo ago
    For sprints, shoes give additional traction for faster starts, but don't increase running efficiency. For distance events, shoes were just extra weight, and barefoot runners have won Olympic competitions.[1] Recently, springy "super shoe" designs have shown up.[2] They've been banned from most competitions, but it looks like less effective versions of the design are still allowed under current rules. I would prefer that shoes be restricted to designs that don't allow for higher efficiency than barefoot running, but sport rules tend to lag technology advances. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abebe_Bikila https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abebe_Bikila 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Vaporfly_and_Tokyo_2020_Olympics_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nike_Vaporfly_and_Tokyo_2020_O...

ggreer 4mo ago

This quirk of competition is why swimmers can win a ridiculous number of medals. If swimming only had freestyle, Michael Phelps would have 7 gold medals instead of 23.

gosub100 4mo ago

There are much bigger problems with the Olympics than that. Such as selling the rights and advertising for billions while paying the athletes nothing.

forinti 4mo ago

The first modern Olympics did have sack races. That would be entertaining.

DennisP 4mo ago

That's a funny take and I'm tempted to agree, since butterfly was the bane of my existence as a skinny swimmer in high school. But hopping on one foot was never a rule hack that gave you an advantage in some preexisting event. Butterfly was, and rather than banning it they made it a new event. Plus it looks cool, if you're a lot better at it than I was.

Angostura 4mo ago

You’re familiar with the walking competition?

polyrand 4mo ago

I believe that's like saying we should only have a single "throw" event in athletics. Or why having hurdles events when you already have regular running ones. I like that we can have more variety, more people competing, and overall different modalities to test human performance.