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> Dial keys Maybe it's in the video I didn't watch, but I really think paragraph one should make clear what kind of keys and why. Cryptographic? Asymmetric? Ho
by andrewflnr 4mo ago
> Dial keys
Maybe it's in the video I didn't watch, but I really think paragraph one should make clear what kind of keys and why. Cryptographic? Asymmetric? How do they do the job, at even the most basic level? It never explains, just dives into abstract claims of superiority and usage stats. I gather relays are involved; this would be a good thing to mention right away instead of making me sift it from the HN discussion.
- taf2 4mo agowhen i read "keys" i figured "names" like in my .ssh/config a named host that i access with a key... but listening more it sounds like a new way to do networking over QUIC...
- rklaehn 4mo agoAt the lowest level it is a creative way to leverage all the work the major cloud vendors have poured into QUIC for p2p connections. If you look at an iroh connection in wireshark it is just a QUIC connection. If you configure a SSLKEYLOGFILE so wireshark can actually look into the packets, you will see a few TLS extensions and somewhat unusual packets flying by during the handshake, but once established it is a completely normal QUIC connection. That is also why we are relatively confident regarding encryption security. It is just TLS. And we can also leverage new encryption like post quantum key exchange with just a few config changes, without any code changes. See https://www.iroh.computer/blog/iroh-post-quantum-handshakes https://www.iroh.computer/blog/iroh-post-quantum-handshakes One thing that is genuinely novel is that we use QUIC multipath to keep the different paths (relay, various direct IP paths) separate. This has some technical benefits because the congestion controller does not get irritated when the underlying transport changes. Each transport has its own congestion controller.
- morphism 4mo agoWhile the frontpage doesn't go in depth, the docs quickly do: First with https://docs.iroh.computer/what-is-iroh https://docs.iroh.computer/what-is-iroh and then following up with the how it works section. The docs are actually good from what I can see so far. From what questions you brought up so for it seems to answer them pretty quickly.
- sva_ 4mo agoThe doc still doesn't show what such a 'key' looks like? Why can't there be a simple infographic that goes like 127.0.0.1 -> 'key'
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- morphism 4mo agoThe info graphic shows the flow in `What is iroh?`, and quickly looking at the endpoint area you can see what the key is: https://docs.iroh.computer/connecting/creating-endpoint#persistent-identity https://docs.iroh.computer/connecting/creating-endpoint#pers... It might be the docs just mesh with how I think about things. The creators should expand on this, since people seem to not mesh with the current info.
- asdfaoeu 4mo agoIt seems to use DHT under the hood whether directly or through a relay. https://pkdns.net/ https://pkdns.net/ .
- mtndew4brkfst 4mo agoThat is a pluggable/possible, but non-default, configuration.
- andrewflnr 4mo agoThey mention later on it's an Ed25519 key.
- Arqu 4mo agoI suggest going through https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwAt36Xe3UI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwAt36Xe3UI for an explainer.
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- isodev 4mo agoI saw the video and still have no idea what they are. Also, “never locked in” but then “pricing” and why is one paying for “apps” but self hosting relays?
- spencerflem 4mo agoAs I understand it- you can use free community provided relays, self-host your own, or pay for their managed services with an SLA and monitoring built in
- spencerflem 4mo agoHaving spent a while trying to understand it, I believe the keys are serving a dual purpose as an encryption key and as a stable identifier along the lines of a session cookie that might be used for a WebRTC video call. Here's my summary from Lobste.rs, keeping in mind I'm not an expert and only found this project today: > [..] this is closer to an opinionated WebRTC setup that handles assigning a persistent ID to clients. All the work of making a signaling server is taken care of and the solution is generic enough and cheap enough to run that you can get away with using a community hosted one. Kinda similar to what you get with Steam’s proprietary p2p gamenetworkingsocket infrastructure https://lobste.rs/s/cslljn/iroh_1_0_dial_keys_not_ips#c_s3na2f https://lobste.rs/s/cslljn/iroh_1_0_dial_keys_not_ips#c_s3na...
- dotancohen 4mo ago> Dial keys. Not IPs. > It's a simple idea really, and it's the right abstraction for the future of the internet. IP addresses can break, without warning, and it's outside of your device's control. Keys, however, are created & controlled by you. They stay the same as your device moves, and are yours to throw away, or not. IP addresses can be private and inaccessible behind firewalls, but with iroh your device can be securely addressable no matter where it is. To me that just sounds like a reimplementation of DNS. Maybe decentralised and maybe free and maybe not monomeric, but broadly the same.
- Folcon 4mo agoThe biggest difference that I can see is that keys are not making any claims about ownership, there's no global registry and it's p2p, which is a big upside
- bellowsgulch 4mo agoNo idea why this is downvoted, it's exactly the pitch for DNS. Others and I are asking the same question. There's no value proposition here.
- comboy 4mo agoDifferent network layer, no centralization, no authorities, DNS has nothing to do with making p2p connections, it's like the ballpark is not even in the same country
- dotancohen 4mo agoSo it differs in implementation details, not in concept.
- comboy 4mo agoIf you think that your phone number is equivalent to your home address then yes.