8 ms·

Kirkland Roundabouts

182 points by DenisM 4mo ago

DenisM 4mo ago
Not a joke, actual roundabout.
- EvanAnderson 4mo ago
  https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/search-projects/i-405-northeast-85th-street-interchange-and-inline-brt-station-project https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/search-projects/i...
dlcarrier 4mo ago
I swear if the US could build regular roundabouts, converting an intersection would make the accident rate go down, instead of up.
- brudgers 4mo ago
  They can and do build them. The problem is that at intersections the normative behavior of American drivers is to queue and wait for your turn. Roundabouts assume a different behavior based on jumping the line. Thus there is a lot of unpredictability regarding other drivers due to generations of driving patterns developed in diverse regional driving cultures...many of which are distinctly not-urban. In addition, this roundabout is part of an Interstate Highway interchange. The US Interstate system is at a scale that doesn't occur elsewhere. It is transcontinental.
  - markdown 4mo ago
    Perhaps they need to start building more roundabouts on smaller intersections, and improve education in driving schools. Then give it time (decades).
    - brudgers 4mo ago
      The US has been building roundabouts for about 30 years. It has a lot of intersections. Reconfiguring intersections is expensive and disruptive. Stop signs and traffic lights take less space and are often the simplest thing that might work.
    - deleted 4mo ago
      [deleted]
  - gs17 4mo ago
    > The problem is that at intersections the normative behavior of American drivers is to queue and wait for your turn. Roundabouts assume a different behavior based on jumping the line. I don't think it's that different from turning right on red, or left without an arrow, or even merging on to the highway from an onramp (maybe that's the most similar, traffic in the others aren't flowing the same direction as you).
    - brewdad 4mo ago
      There is a roundabout near me that gets quite low traffic volume. I probably only have to even slow below 20mph about 10% of the time. The bigger risk is that the car in front of me is going to come to a complete stop at the yield sign despite the fact that you can see any potential conflicts at least 100 feet before the roundabout. American drivers don’t know that a yield doesn’t require a stop and can’t think more than one or two seconds ahead of any possible conflict in traffic.
      - gs17 4mo ago
        "American drivers are too safe" is a new complaint to me.
        brewdad 4mo ago
        Stopping at yield signs when there is no other traffic is the opposite of safe.
    - brudgers 4mo ago
      even merging on to the highway from an onramp Onramps with traffic lights are a thing in the US. They operate during rush hour.
      - gs17 4mo ago
        I live near plenty of them, they still require to you merge with traffic after. You do "queue and wait for your turn", but immediately after you have to find a gap to insert yourself into before you run out of road.
- AngryData 4mo ago
  From what I understand roundabouts make accident rate go up, it is the severity of accidents that goes down which probably still a positive. That said I have yet to drive through a roundabout that I think improved an intersection in any meaningful way. Half of them work as intended but I find them less pleasant to drive through, the other half are just horribly designed and often have semitrucks go through them when they aren't really large enough for that.
  - autoexec 4mo ago
    > From what I understand roundabouts make accident rate go up, it is the severity of accidents that goes down which probably still a positive. That's the argument I keep hearing, but I'm not sure I buy it. Fewer people might be injured physically but even low speed accidents can cost thousands in repairs if not total your car, so going from a few people being hurt a year to multiple people losing their cars or being forced to pay out thousands every few weeks doesn't seem like a win to me.
  - Jblx2 4mo ago
    >From what I understand roundabouts make accident rate go up, "Studies of intersections in the United States converted from traffic signals or stop signs to roundabouts have found reductions in injury crashes of 72%-80% and reductions in all crashes of 35%-47%" https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/roundabouts#safety-benefits https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/roundabouts#safety-benef...
- Jblx2 4mo ago
  I was surprised that the U.S. probably only has around 11,000 roundabouts. I thought it would be higher. If they were as popular as they are in my local area, there would be over 70,000 in the U.S. https://roundabouts.kittelson.com/ https://roundabouts.kittelson.com/
smithkl42 4mo ago
I've been driving roundabouts for decades, and think they're great - they really help with traffic flow. I've never found them confusing. I had to drive this specific Kirkland roundabout the other day, and ended up missing my offramp and going in completely the wrong direction. It's the most confusing roundabout I've ever seen.
- 2bitencryption 4mo ago
  I live moments away from this roundabout. It's confusing. Single-lane roundabouts are really straightforward. You're either clear to enter, or you're not. Adding lanes makes it far more confusing. I consider myself, you know, pretty smart. Not stupid, at least. But I almost sideswiped someone in this roundabout the other day. Years of driving experience gave me an intuition that the middle lane would not cross over the outer lane. E.x. a car in the inner lane would not pass through the outer lane (except at the very end). So when I saw an oncoming car in the inner lane I thoguht I was safe to enter the outer lane. Not so. The inner lane car was actually lane-changing to the outer lane (at the exact point I was about to enter the roundabout) in order to exit.
  - dwd 4mo ago
    > Single-lane roundabouts are really straightforward Like the Arc de Triomphe roundabout? :) If it had lane marking there would apparently be 10 tracks around the circle. What makes it seem crazy is cars entering have right of way. The reason it works seems to be French attitude. Cars entering do their thing, and cars already going around do their thing (and just have to avoid anyone on their right).
    - imp0cat 4mo ago
      Not hitting anyone is a skill some people seem to lack. Sometimes the rules say one thing, but you have to do another, mostly give way even if you're not supposed to yield.
    - gs17 4mo ago
      > What makes it seem crazy is cars entering have right of way. I saw that on either Top Gear or The Grand Tour and was convinced they were just making fun of the French. It's really odd to not have changed it when everyone else learned that lesson already.
maest 4mo ago
I'm all for hating bad infrastructure, but this roundabout seems pretty straightforward? Maybe it's different when you're actually driving on it, but from a topdown view it's clear it's a central roundabout with some extra sidelanes to avoid the roundabout if you're immediately turning right.
- Freedom2 4mo ago
  Talking to my American colleagues, they're often perplexed by roundabouts and don't really understand how they fundamentally work. They're also incredibly stubborn when it comes to convincing them that it helps with traffic flow immensely versus a 4 way stop sign.
  - throwaway173738 4mo ago
    When you’re walking the stop sign stops traffic for you so it’s a lot nicer. I’ve found that even with a marked crosswalk people ignore you if they’re not forced to stop.
    - gs17 4mo ago
      And as a pedestrian, drivers going around a circle aren't necessarily going to see you until they're already exiting, even if the city didn't put something large in the center that entirely blocks their vision. Plus, you lose the ability to know which way a car is likely to go until it's already too late. When I lived in Nashville, I spent a lot of time near a roundabout, and even after they redid it to be a bit better I still had to avoid it for my own safety. The light-controlled intersection next to it was much less of a problem.
      - dwd 4mo ago
        The rule in Australia for roundabouts is that you give way to anyone already on a roundabout. From an advanced driving course I got to do years ago (for free), I learnt that the pedestrian island counts as part of the roundabout, so a pedestrian crossing or on the island should be given way to finish crossing when entering the roundabout [1]. Doesn't always happen in reality. There is also this idea in Australia that you always give right of way to cars entering on your right (left for US) which is not an actual rule; as in if you are waiting at the line you count as being on the roundabout. Unfortunately, you will often see cars on the major road blast through a small roundabout with no regard to anyone waiting to enter from the lesser road, making entering the roundabout from that side a stop rather than an equal give way. [1] Edited for clarity
madrox 4mo ago
I used the roundabout the game is modeled after the other day. This is at the freeway exit used to get to the Costco AND downtown in Kirkland. I've seen pileups here for no reason. It's insane. To be fair, I'm not sure there's a good solution. The real problem is the volume of traffic and that it dumps onto two lane roads at the edges of this roundabout. To really fix things you need to give people other exits to use.
deleted 4mo ago
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dwd 4mo ago
That is a very basic roundabout. I was expecting by "magic" that you would have to go round some part in reverse (clockwise for US left-hand driving). This is nothing compared to the original "magic" roundabout of Swindon, Wiltshire. This interchange might have been better off using a diverging diamond interchange layout [1]. While not a roundabout they are "magic" and we should use them more often. They just look confusing because at some point you are effectively driving on the wrong side of the road, but are extremely efficient. My daily commute includes one that cuts a few minutes off what it once took to negotiate the previous traditional interchange. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverging_diamond_interchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverging_diamond_interchange
- shawn_w 4mo ago
  We have one of those diverging diamond ones in the general area too (at the I90/SR18 junction). It's interesting to drive through until you get used to it.
  - mikestew 4mo ago
    I hit that one a few weeks ago, having apparently not been that way in quite a while. I’m down with some roundabouts, but that intersection definitely kept me in my toes.
- bobthepanda 4mo ago
  it does note that it's satire. a lot of drivers in America have reflexive dislike of roundabouts. this one probably is not good for a DDI because it is also supposed to be a bus interchange for a BRT project, and the buses will stop at the roundabout level.
  - dwd 4mo ago
    Probably an instance where busses need their own level/ramps.
  - com2kid 4mo ago
    The majority of drivers don't know the signaling rules for roundabouts so the end result is no one uses signals on them for anything and this you never know what people are going to do next when they are in one. All in all they end up being rather unpleasant to use through no fault of their own.
lorecore 4mo ago
I'm a huge roundabout fan, but this does indeed look nasty. Seattle area driving in general is pretty bad. There's an exit on the 5 in downtown Seattle that's on the far left lane (Seneca street I believe) that feels like putting your life on the line every time you need to take it.
- shawn_w 4mo ago
  There are multiple left lane exits (and onramps!) on I5 in downtown Seattle. Fun times.
- throwaway173738 4mo ago
  Bonus points if you’ve found all the express lane on ramps.
evil-olive 4mo ago
about the gameplay specifically: - have a mute button for the background music. - there should be a gas pedal and a brake, rather than the car going forward at a constant speed unless I hit the brakes. - the car should go straight, unless I turn. if I don't do anything near the exit of a roundabout, sometimes the "default" behavior is to exit the roundabout, sometimes it's to turn and continue within the roundabout. frustration with the last point was enough for me to give up trying to play it. I'm sure the LLM that vibe-coded this thinks the controls make perfect sense, though. in general: is this trying to make a point of some kind about the design of the interchange? the "Inspired by online discussions of the Kirkland roundabouts" text sort of hints at that but it's unclear how. is the point that it's overly complicated? or is the point that it's actually not that complicated, in response to people criticizing it? I can imagine it going either way...but the poor controls mean that it's not really effective at making either point. different roundabout / intersection types would make this much more interesting. I've driven through the "diverging diamond" interchange of I-5 in Lacey [0] before, and it was a bit confusing the first time but now doesn't seem any more complicated than any other busy highway intersection. or, add a before & after comparing the old Kirkland interchange design to the new roundabout. 0: https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/traffic-safety-methods/diverging-diamond-interchange https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/traffic-safety-methods/diverging...
- tom_ 4mo ago
  I rather agree. The layout actually looks pretty straightforward, but the controls make it annoyingly hard. Though, in real life, people often don't look at the road markings - possibly even more true in America, where people are perhaps less familiar with the roundabout concept - and general directions of traffic flow is an issue. Perhaps driving this particular roundabout in real life might indeed turn out to be as annoying as this game is to play. (There are a couple of straightforward-looking ones near me that, in practice, are almost impossible during busy times in specific directions. Even if your car is powerful enough to zip onto the roundabout in a tiny gap without there being a crash, now you have to not crash while making it turn...)
barryp 4mo ago
Background music is awesome
- xp84 4mo ago
  I'm assuming these are AI-generated songs... but they're so funny. I think "hilarious songs" is an underrated use of AI. It used to require a lot to make a catchy tune, so we were limited to the output of the few comedians who were talented musicians. But the ability to have a silly theme song of this quality, for a joke game, friend group in-joke, or a company retreat... this is something I like about AI!
pacbard 4mo ago
The figure-8 central design makes this roundabout not a real roundabout. The challenge is that the entry and exit points are at the tightest part of the curve, making ingress and egress kind of weird. It looks like they did it because of space constraints on the bridge. What I find weird is the tightness of the on/off ramp, which share a very small part of the central lanes. In a traditional circle, they are spaced more apart, making exiting and entering smoother. If it were a regular 2-lane traffic circle, it wouldn't be too difficult to navigate. Personally, I find multiple-lane traffic circles (4+) to be more difficult to navigate, mostly when some people in the center lanes pull a fast right turn across all lanes of traffic. Otherwise, much better than traffic lights at keeping traffic moving or first-come, first-served stop intersections when people don't really stop or sit there waving you through.
WalterBright 4mo ago
There's one installed a few years ago north of it where 132nd goes under the freeway. It used to have 2 lights to get through under the freeway. Now there are 2 roundabouts. I never have to wait anymore. It's a big win.
- fimoreth 4mo ago
  Agree, really thankful for those
- GauntletWizard 4mo ago
  Yes, because nobody goes that way anymore - It's too much of a time sink, significantly because you never end up where you want to go. Instead the real crossing points got even more crowded, or were until this abomination got installed. Thankfully, I literally sold my house because of it, and my timing was good and I got out before prices dropped.
  - WalterBright 4mo ago
    Another reason it's way better is because of all the time spent waiting at a red light when there's zero cross traffic. The traffic lights all have cameras now, you'd think the traffic engineers would hook it up to AI and optimize the lights. But no. A taste of what that would be like is when all the power goes out, including the power to the traffic lights. Traffic moves faster! Because drivers cooperate. Traffic also moves faster when a cop is directing traffic.
    - entropicdrifter 4mo ago
      The lights in my small Pennsylvania town just got cameras and do seem to be using ML to recognize traffic build-up and optimize dynamically for traffic flow. Pretty cool stuff. I think the real reason they were installed was because of a new state law that goes into effect this July where you'll be fined if you're spotted holding a smartphone by a traffic cam. Still, the faster light changes are quite welcome.
dafelst 4mo ago
I drove on this for the first time yesterday, once from 405 S to 85th W, then back on 85th E and 405 N. Super easy, the lanes are fairly nicely signed and there is ample signage. No issues at all.
- loeg 4mo ago
  Have you done the I-90 <-> SR 18 interchange out by Preston yet?
ggm 4mo ago
"time for bed" said Zebedee.
themafia 4mo ago
The basic failure mode I would expect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeFY9u69tkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeFY9u69tkE The adjoining roads have a large speed differential. The runoff areas around this project do not appear as if designed with this in mind. I predict a few horrible accidents and some hamfisted redesigns. The local news has a ground level view of this project: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jlPMB7c0RyQ https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jlPMB7c0RyQ
- xp84 4mo ago
  Your first link is hilarious. 1:38 features a tow truck wiping out. You'd think he'd seen enough people get in trouble to make him drive better!
paul7986 4mo ago
In my town of Shrewsbury PA we have a diverging diamond traffic pattern(it's sorta like a figure 8). I have no issue with it tho I have seen a car accident or two there. Roundabouts are simple and so is the diverging diamond.
vladmk 4mo ago
Hilariously great
cloverich 4mo ago
I love this roundabout, we live down the street from it. People around here drive comically bad, mostly from what i suspect is simple inexperience (many new drivers), with a surprising side of entitlement (super rich area). Together, its become my favorite experience to see all the ways people fail to navigate this wild "roundabout". And yet it still mostly works, and is loads faster than the former lights that were there before, so i suspect it will be a success in most eyes once everyone adapts. For additional fun, check out the sticker price on this intersection overhaul (which includes much more than the round about).
- TulliusCicero 4mo ago
  It's been not so great for me so far, but I think that's because the street I often take before getting into the roundabout is still reduced to one lane each way due to construction; once it's back to two lanes each way, I think it'll be fine.
- deleted 4mo ago
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fimoreth 4mo ago
Love it, you’ve got to do 132nd street next. Trying to exit south bound during rush hour is delightful
rich_sasha 4mo ago
I assumed it would be like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon) or this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempst... . Instead, topologically, it is a normal roundabout, just with unusual (negative) curvatures. The linked ones, also called "magic roundabouts", are roundabout rings made out of roundabouts. In particular, you can take them clockwise or anticlockwise - it is a ring of roads connected by mini roundabouts. Even just the road sign gives you a headache! Having been exposed to the idea for over a decade, I still don't know instinctively how to navigate them.
- kimixa 4mo ago
  They're really simple - arguably the problem is people try to treat them as a single complex unit rather than just "5 junctions in a row". Trying to think of them as a whole is rather pointless and self defeating, as there's no real advantage to doing so. Most people have no problems with the idea of a road network loop - such as around a block - but that's exactly the same thing from a driving point of view.
faxmeyourcode 4mo ago
A town I grew up in went absolutely crazy with roundabouts over the last 10 years or so. They built them everywhere. Most are pretty straightforward and they simplify traffic a ton but there were some bad design choices made. Take this similarly confusing double-roundabout for example https://maps.app.goo.gl/VTSrSWsBGnsYyzKU6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/VTSrSWsBGnsYyzKU6 There are accidents here almost every week and when an out of towner comes off the interstate to get some gas at Sam's Club (where I used to work) I had to try and explain to them how to get back onto the interstate... I might try to clone this project idea, it was fun to play! They also proposed a peanut style roundabout with a *train track going through it* that thankfully has not been built yet https://media.conwayarkansas.gov/media/documents/project/85/Tyler__Donaghey_Mini_Peanut_Roundabout_100__ICD.pdf https://media.conwayarkansas.gov/media/documents/project/85/...
- ddxv 4mo ago
  Wow, thanks for sharing that maps. Looking at the satellite is wild. It's all roads and parking lots, barely any buildings. Even if you did fix the massive road infrastructure, what would they do, give the land back to businesses nearby?
- testing22321 4mo ago
  I grew up in a town in Australia nicknamed “the city of roundabouts.” Four way stops simply don’t exist. When well designed, roundabouts are excellent for traffic flow and reducing accidents and severity of accidents. If I was king for a day I’d replace all four way stops with them.
  - strken 4mo ago
    I don't think Australia has many true four way stops in cities and towns. Usually there's a give way sign on two of the directions, or lights, or a roundabout. Unmarked intersections do exist, mostly on bush tracks and backroads, but I don't think I've ever seen the four stop sign arrangement here in Vic. Apparently it's slightly more common in NSW.
    - 4mo ago
jimbobimbo 4mo ago
The new 85th St & I-405 interchange is horrible. I took it twice and both times it's too stressful and takes much longer to get off 405.
cespare 4mo ago
I live a couple of blocks away from this Kirkland roundabout and I drive through it very often -- almost every time I go anywhere. Overall, I like it. My average traversal through the roundabout, for just about any source/destination, seems a bit faster than the pre-roundabout infrastructure and much faster than the temporary so-many-stoplights configuration they had for the past year or two.
dataflow 4mo ago
Just shared a relevant video for anyone interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48565808 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48565808
geephroh 4mo ago
The best part about Kirkland Roundabouts is that they come in a handy family-size 24 pack. I'll let myself out.
- tomfakes 4mo ago
  The original Costco HQ building overlooks this new intersection, so this is almost a relevant comment
  - tmathmeyer 4mo ago
    Not quite. The old corporate HQ was located at 10809 120th ave NE, which is up at exit 21 and currently being redeveloped into a townhome complex: https://www.google.com/maps/place/10809+120th+Ave+NE,+Kirkland,+WA+98033/@47.6987174,-122.1835988,1758m https://www.google.com/maps/place/10809+120th+Ave+NE,+Kirkla...
KennedyHere 4mo ago
Hey all, I'm the author of this game. I didn't expect to see it on HN! I wrote it to add some fun to all the conversations happening in the local forums about this roundabout. They've been heated at times. And, yes, this roundabout is right next to the Kirkland Costco. I definitely agree with all the critiques of the gameplay - and I have about 100 more. I cut it down to the bare essentials to get it done while it's still relevant in the community. I wouldn't even call it an MVP. I probably won't update this unless there is some greater need. Though using Godot with Claude Code was a blast so I'm motivated to do new stuff there. I've been building solutions on Unity/DX/Unreal for over a decade - Godot was such a breath of fresh air!
- jt2190 4mo ago
  The playlist is hilarious and really helps nail the feeling of driving around in circles! Love it!
- FireBeyond 4mo ago
  For bonus points, tackle Tumwater next! https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9995932,-122.9095898,279m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDYxMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9995932,-122.9095898,279m/da... This thing is a nightmare of newly constructed, but with poor signage, rapid lane changes required at times, and "wait, which roundabout?"
  - jfyne 4mo ago
    I raise you The Magic Roundabout https://maps.app.goo.gl/1Mj8tSvKNBnQMu8V7 https://maps.app.goo.gl/1Mj8tSvKNBnQMu8V7
    - Theodores 4mo ago
      Too easy. In the UK there are far more torturous roundabouts, for example, Five Ways in Birmingham, notable because you have to inch forward up a hill, always in traffic, typically with a manual gearbox, to finally get to the roundabout where the three lanes of traffic seems to already be doing 50 mph, meaning that you have to channel your drag racing skills to just get on there, without slipping backwards, damaging the clutch or coming a cropper. London has some specials too, including the traffic around Hyde Park Corner, which is like a roundabout in vacuum form. Should so much as a square foot of tarmac become vacant then it will magically suck in four taxis, two double decker buses and a dozen UberEats delivery guys, making any progress tough. Chiswick roundabout, where the M4 motorway, gateway to the West, begins is also not for those lacking testicular fortitude, my mum got stuck going round and round that one, we weren't quite dizzy by the time we got off, but it was getting that way. All is nothing though. You have got to do France, Arc de Triomphe. Cobblestones, many, many lanes, every car with dents in it and priority given to those entering the roundabout rather than those on it already. No American in an American vehicle would be able to make it through that one!
furyofantares 4mo ago
So many comments talking about how straightforward some roundabouts are, but I think you guys are confused. Roundabouts are never straightforward, you're thinking of a normal road.
- eks391 4mo ago
  Is this a play on the word "straight[-]forward"?
  - freejazz 4mo ago
    No, its a play on the word roundabouts
    - _verandaguy 4mo ago
      This is a bit of a traffic circle way of explaining the joke.
    - dredmorbius 4mo ago
      So ... in a roundabout way, it's straight—forward, and in a straightforward way, it's roundabout?
  - lucas_t_a 4mo ago
    you really cut through this one
advisedwang 4mo ago
The top down view seems to make this extra confusing: 1. You don't get to see signage that tells you what lane to be in 2. You are forced to take in irrelevant details.
drnick1 4mo ago
Roundabouts are almost always a bad idea. Thank God they are mostly a European thing.
- daveguy 4mo ago
  Roundabouts are almost always a good idea, assuming there is sufficient traffic. They keep traffic flowing faster, more predictably, and with fewer accidents.
  - drnick1 4mo ago
    No, they just interrupt the flow of traffic by slowing it down. The classic pattern of side roads with less traffic yielding to incoming traffic on the main road carrying more traffic is the correct road layout that minimizes frustration and confusion. Roundabouts are the favorite tool of left-leaning, anti-car, vanilla soy latte-sipping urban planners.
    - enragedcacti 4mo ago
      Good to know that I'm getting to my destination faster and more safely all because of woke! https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/roundabouts#traffic-flow-benefits https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/roundabouts#traffic-flow... Btw your 'classic pattern' of highly unbalanced traffic flows is specifically called out as a non-ideal candidate for a roundabout, maybe the urban planners get cow milk in their lattes after all.
    - daveguy 4mo ago
      [flagged]
    - TulliusCicero 4mo ago
      No, they reduce the number of accidents, and also reduce the severity of accidents.
- rconti 4mo ago
  Four way stops that require all traffic to stop for no particular reason are always a bad idea. They're a waste of time and resources. Two way stops are OFTEN a bad idea, because they require two directions of travel to stop for _sometimes_ no particular reason. (And then they often cannot go without an extensive wait).
pryelluw 4mo ago
This is so stressful to play. Can you change the music?
agwa 4mo ago
What's particularly crazy about this interchange is that there is going to be a second, elevated peanut roundabout that's rotated 90 degrees, for buses to use: https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgaydUTu5zZRzjWuaYrVeLGK-BrP199uWPhR25VwsOy1Uj77soFaQxuoIzMff3MMgo9WPZRkgqzUqM0kwdSF0fOUnSZqV3V_dzBhRDjypOQOL9b-pK2yAEjO2Mxa7qC8bBEInTiw2aDFfrP5Mkur15_1nxtNDmNzzNK46ymuDzJPtDuwJ-NAh1FGV76XzER/s1280/85th-3LevelInterchange-Rendering.png https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg...
- gs17 4mo ago
  The buses will at least have an easier time, they should be all trained for how to navigate it if it's on their route, and there's much less traffic on the bus-only part.
- tmathmeyer 4mo ago
  I think the "peanut" shape of the transit roundabout is not final. They're going to straighten the sides to make it more of a race-track shape. Having straight sides allows the busses to align themselves better with the curbs for passenger access. That rendering is a bit nonsense, its outright missing the 85th/114th intersection
- KennedyHere 4mo ago
  That's a fantastic rendering. I hadn't seen it.
fermentation 4mo ago
I love roundabouts. I have no clue what on Earth compelled them to design the 85th st interchange this way, but they took maybe the most dangerous intersection I have ever seen and made it maybe twice as dangerous.
SSchick 4mo ago
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mglvsky 4mo ago
That combination of soundtrack and graphics reminds me of [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_n%27_Roll_Racing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_n%27_Roll_Racing
brikym 4mo ago
I'm used to roundabouts but I find the game difficult. Even if you made a basic roundabout I'd still crash a lot. 1) The car wants to go too fast on it's own. 2) The third person perspective is nothing like real driving where you simply yield to traffic on the left (or give way to the left for us down-under folks). If it's meant to be an argument against roundabouts then it's a straw man.
ghastmaster 4mo ago
This game hijacks my f5 key and alt key. I'm using brave browser on ubuntu. Can't navigate back or refresh while the game is playing. I rarely see this, maybe never have. I wonder how that is achieved?
arlattimore 4mo ago
I don't think roundabouts are complex, treat them like a giveway/yield and they are brilliant. The biggest issue is they are an infrequently used traffic control device in the US. So infrequent, I don't think they even appear in the WA drivers handbook which is kind of shocking. As a by product, you see the craziest driver behaviour in Seattle on them: 1) No one uses their indicators/turn signals as they approach. This is a major issue because it makes the roundabout incredibly ineffective, as every driver needs to treat it effectively like a 4-way stop because you don't know the intentions of the cars around you. 2) Drivers will enter the roundabout, then stop at another entryway if a car approaches. This makes no sense, as the approaching car would need to yield or stop, so it slows the traffic down again. 3) Drivers will wait at an entrance until all other cars are clear of the roundabout before entering. Again, makes no sense - you wouldn't do that on a cross-road if two cars were both indicating right etc. Definitely need more driver education on the humble roundabout!
- rootusrootus 4mo ago
  > So infrequent, I don't think they even appear in the WA drivers handbook which is kind of shocking They are definitely in the handbook. Couple different types, with pictures and diagrams, and written instructions.
  - Jblx2 4mo ago
    Specifically, section 4.15, staring on page 126: https://dol.wa.gov/driver-licenses-and-permits/driver-training-and-testing/driver-guides https://dol.wa.gov/driver-licenses-and-permits/driver-traini...
- spaqin 4mo ago
  In Europe most people don't indicate when approaching the roundabout; only if you're taking the first exit. Roundabout is basically a straight road that loops itself, so there's no need for blinkers when you're on. You indicate when you want to leave, and that's how cars approaching from your exit know it's safe to get on. Besides that I'm not surprised Americans don't know how to use them; while nowhere else in the world you'll find a 4-way stop...
annzabelle 4mo ago
That's almost as bad as the diverging diamond interchanges https://www.vdot.virginia.gov/media/vdotvirginiagov/about/vdots-transportation-system/highways/innovative-intersections/divergent-diamond-interchange-ddi-2017-08-24.pdf https://www.vdot.virginia.gov/media/vdotvirginiagov/about/vd... we've started building in Virginia, where you end up driving on the left for 100 yards as you cross the interstate.

182 points by DenisM 4mo ago

DenisM 4mo ago

Not a joke, actual roundabout.

EvanAnderson 4mo ago
https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/search-projects/i-405-northeast-85th-street-interchange-and-inline-brt-station-project https://wsdot.wa.gov/construction-planning/search-projects/i...

dlcarrier 4mo ago

I swear if the US could build regular roundabouts, converting an intersection would make the accident rate go down, instead of up.

brudgers 4mo ago
They can and do build them. The problem is that at intersections the normative behavior of American drivers is to queue and wait for your turn. Roundabouts assume a different behavior based on jumping the line. Thus there is a lot of unpredictability regarding other drivers due to generations of driving patterns developed in diverse regional driving cultures...many of which are distinctly not-urban. In addition, this roundabout is part of an Interstate Highway interchange. The US Interstate system is at a scale that doesn't occur elsewhere. It is transcontinental.
- markdown 4mo ago
  Perhaps they need to start building more roundabouts on smaller intersections, and improve education in driving schools. Then give it time (decades).
  - brudgers 4mo ago
    The US has been building roundabouts for about 30 years. It has a lot of intersections. Reconfiguring intersections is expensive and disruptive. Stop signs and traffic lights take less space and are often the simplest thing that might work.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
- gs17 4mo ago
  > The problem is that at intersections the normative behavior of American drivers is to queue and wait for your turn. Roundabouts assume a different behavior based on jumping the line. I don't think it's that different from turning right on red, or left without an arrow, or even merging on to the highway from an onramp (maybe that's the most similar, traffic in the others aren't flowing the same direction as you).
  - brewdad 4mo ago
    There is a roundabout near me that gets quite low traffic volume. I probably only have to even slow below 20mph about 10% of the time. The bigger risk is that the car in front of me is going to come to a complete stop at the yield sign despite the fact that you can see any potential conflicts at least 100 feet before the roundabout. American drivers don’t know that a yield doesn’t require a stop and can’t think more than one or two seconds ahead of any possible conflict in traffic.
    - gs17 4mo ago
      "American drivers are too safe" is a new complaint to me.
      - brewdad 4mo ago
        Stopping at yield signs when there is no other traffic is the opposite of safe.
  - brudgers 4mo ago
    even merging on to the highway from an onramp Onramps with traffic lights are a thing in the US. They operate during rush hour.
    - gs17 4mo ago
      I live near plenty of them, they still require to you merge with traffic after. You do "queue and wait for your turn", but immediately after you have to find a gap to insert yourself into before you run out of road.
AngryData 4mo ago
From what I understand roundabouts make accident rate go up, it is the severity of accidents that goes down which probably still a positive. That said I have yet to drive through a roundabout that I think improved an intersection in any meaningful way. Half of them work as intended but I find them less pleasant to drive through, the other half are just horribly designed and often have semitrucks go through them when they aren't really large enough for that.
- autoexec 4mo ago
  > From what I understand roundabouts make accident rate go up, it is the severity of accidents that goes down which probably still a positive. That's the argument I keep hearing, but I'm not sure I buy it. Fewer people might be injured physically but even low speed accidents can cost thousands in repairs if not total your car, so going from a few people being hurt a year to multiple people losing their cars or being forced to pay out thousands every few weeks doesn't seem like a win to me.
- Jblx2 4mo ago
  >From what I understand roundabouts make accident rate go up, "Studies of intersections in the United States converted from traffic signals or stop signs to roundabouts have found reductions in injury crashes of 72%-80% and reductions in all crashes of 35%-47%" https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/roundabouts#safety-benefits https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/roundabouts#safety-benef...
Jblx2 4mo ago
I was surprised that the U.S. probably only has around 11,000 roundabouts. I thought it would be higher. If they were as popular as they are in my local area, there would be over 70,000 in the U.S. https://roundabouts.kittelson.com/ https://roundabouts.kittelson.com/

smithkl42 4mo ago

I've been driving roundabouts for decades, and think they're great - they really help with traffic flow. I've never found them confusing. I had to drive this specific Kirkland roundabout the other day, and ended up missing my offramp and going in completely the wrong direction. It's the most confusing roundabout I've ever seen.

2bitencryption 4mo ago
I live moments away from this roundabout. It's confusing. Single-lane roundabouts are really straightforward. You're either clear to enter, or you're not. Adding lanes makes it far more confusing. I consider myself, you know, pretty smart. Not stupid, at least. But I almost sideswiped someone in this roundabout the other day. Years of driving experience gave me an intuition that the middle lane would not cross over the outer lane. E.x. a car in the inner lane would not pass through the outer lane (except at the very end). So when I saw an oncoming car in the inner lane I thoguht I was safe to enter the outer lane. Not so. The inner lane car was actually lane-changing to the outer lane (at the exact point I was about to enter the roundabout) in order to exit.
- dwd 4mo ago
  > Single-lane roundabouts are really straightforward Like the Arc de Triomphe roundabout? :) If it had lane marking there would apparently be 10 tracks around the circle. What makes it seem crazy is cars entering have right of way. The reason it works seems to be French attitude. Cars entering do their thing, and cars already going around do their thing (and just have to avoid anyone on their right).
  - imp0cat 4mo ago
    Not hitting anyone is a skill some people seem to lack. Sometimes the rules say one thing, but you have to do another, mostly give way even if you're not supposed to yield.
  - gs17 4mo ago
    > What makes it seem crazy is cars entering have right of way. I saw that on either Top Gear or The Grand Tour and was convinced they were just making fun of the French. It's really odd to not have changed it when everyone else learned that lesson already.

maest 4mo ago

I'm all for hating bad infrastructure, but this roundabout seems pretty straightforward? Maybe it's different when you're actually driving on it, but from a topdown view it's clear it's a central roundabout with some extra sidelanes to avoid the roundabout if you're immediately turning right.

Freedom2 4mo ago
Talking to my American colleagues, they're often perplexed by roundabouts and don't really understand how they fundamentally work. They're also incredibly stubborn when it comes to convincing them that it helps with traffic flow immensely versus a 4 way stop sign.
- throwaway173738 4mo ago
  When you’re walking the stop sign stops traffic for you so it’s a lot nicer. I’ve found that even with a marked crosswalk people ignore you if they’re not forced to stop.
  - gs17 4mo ago
    And as a pedestrian, drivers going around a circle aren't necessarily going to see you until they're already exiting, even if the city didn't put something large in the center that entirely blocks their vision. Plus, you lose the ability to know which way a car is likely to go until it's already too late. When I lived in Nashville, I spent a lot of time near a roundabout, and even after they redid it to be a bit better I still had to avoid it for my own safety. The light-controlled intersection next to it was much less of a problem.
    - dwd 4mo ago
      The rule in Australia for roundabouts is that you give way to anyone already on a roundabout. From an advanced driving course I got to do years ago (for free), I learnt that the pedestrian island counts as part of the roundabout, so a pedestrian crossing or on the island should be given way to finish crossing when entering the roundabout [1]. Doesn't always happen in reality. There is also this idea in Australia that you always give right of way to cars entering on your right (left for US) which is not an actual rule; as in if you are waiting at the line you count as being on the roundabout. Unfortunately, you will often see cars on the major road blast through a small roundabout with no regard to anyone waiting to enter from the lesser road, making entering the roundabout from that side a stop rather than an equal give way. [1] Edited for clarity

madrox 4mo ago

I used the roundabout the game is modeled after the other day. This is at the freeway exit used to get to the Costco AND downtown in Kirkland. I've seen pileups here for no reason. It's insane. To be fair, I'm not sure there's a good solution. The real problem is the volume of traffic and that it dumps onto two lane roads at the edges of this roundabout. To really fix things you need to give people other exits to use.

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

dwd 4mo ago

That is a very basic roundabout. I was expecting by "magic" that you would have to go round some part in reverse (clockwise for US left-hand driving). This is nothing compared to the original "magic" roundabout of Swindon, Wiltshire. This interchange might have been better off using a diverging diamond interchange layout [1]. While not a roundabout they are "magic" and we should use them more often. They just look confusing because at some point you are effectively driving on the wrong side of the road, but are extremely efficient. My daily commute includes one that cuts a few minutes off what it once took to negotiate the previous traditional interchange. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverging_diamond_interchange https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverging_diamond_interchange

shawn_w 4mo ago
We have one of those diverging diamond ones in the general area too (at the I90/SR18 junction). It's interesting to drive through until you get used to it.
- mikestew 4mo ago
  I hit that one a few weeks ago, having apparently not been that way in quite a while. I’m down with some roundabouts, but that intersection definitely kept me in my toes.
bobthepanda 4mo ago
it does note that it's satire. a lot of drivers in America have reflexive dislike of roundabouts. this one probably is not good for a DDI because it is also supposed to be a bus interchange for a BRT project, and the buses will stop at the roundabout level.
- dwd 4mo ago
  Probably an instance where busses need their own level/ramps.
- com2kid 4mo ago
  The majority of drivers don't know the signaling rules for roundabouts so the end result is no one uses signals on them for anything and this you never know what people are going to do next when they are in one. All in all they end up being rather unpleasant to use through no fault of their own.

lorecore 4mo ago

I'm a huge roundabout fan, but this does indeed look nasty. Seattle area driving in general is pretty bad. There's an exit on the 5 in downtown Seattle that's on the far left lane (Seneca street I believe) that feels like putting your life on the line every time you need to take it.

shawn_w 4mo ago
There are multiple left lane exits (and onramps!) on I5 in downtown Seattle. Fun times.
throwaway173738 4mo ago
Bonus points if you’ve found all the express lane on ramps.

evil-olive 4mo ago

about the gameplay specifically: - have a mute button for the background music. - there should be a gas pedal and a brake, rather than the car going forward at a constant speed unless I hit the brakes. - the car should go straight, unless I turn. if I don't do anything near the exit of a roundabout, sometimes the "default" behavior is to exit the roundabout, sometimes it's to turn and continue within the roundabout. frustration with the last point was enough for me to give up trying to play it. I'm sure the LLM that vibe-coded this thinks the controls make perfect sense, though. in general: is this trying to make a point of some kind about the design of the interchange? the "Inspired by online discussions of the Kirkland roundabouts" text sort of hints at that but it's unclear how. is the point that it's overly complicated? or is the point that it's actually not that complicated, in response to people criticizing it? I can imagine it going either way...but the poor controls mean that it's not really effective at making either point. different roundabout / intersection types would make this much more interesting. I've driven through the "diverging diamond" interchange of I-5 in Lacey [0] before, and it was a bit confusing the first time but now doesn't seem any more complicated than any other busy highway intersection. or, add a before & after comparing the old Kirkland interchange design to the new roundabout. 0: https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/traffic-safety-methods/diverging-diamond-interchange https://wsdot.wa.gov/travel/traffic-safety-methods/diverging...

tom_ 4mo ago
I rather agree. The layout actually looks pretty straightforward, but the controls make it annoyingly hard. Though, in real life, people often don't look at the road markings - possibly even more true in America, where people are perhaps less familiar with the roundabout concept - and general directions of traffic flow is an issue. Perhaps driving this particular roundabout in real life might indeed turn out to be as annoying as this game is to play. (There are a couple of straightforward-looking ones near me that, in practice, are almost impossible during busy times in specific directions. Even if your car is powerful enough to zip onto the roundabout in a tiny gap without there being a crash, now you have to not crash while making it turn...)

barryp 4mo ago

Background music is awesome

xp84 4mo ago
I'm assuming these are AI-generated songs... but they're so funny. I think "hilarious songs" is an underrated use of AI. It used to require a lot to make a catchy tune, so we were limited to the output of the few comedians who were talented musicians. But the ability to have a silly theme song of this quality, for a joke game, friend group in-joke, or a company retreat... this is something I like about AI!

pacbard 4mo ago

The figure-8 central design makes this roundabout not a real roundabout. The challenge is that the entry and exit points are at the tightest part of the curve, making ingress and egress kind of weird. It looks like they did it because of space constraints on the bridge. What I find weird is the tightness of the on/off ramp, which share a very small part of the central lanes. In a traditional circle, they are spaced more apart, making exiting and entering smoother. If it were a regular 2-lane traffic circle, it wouldn't be too difficult to navigate. Personally, I find multiple-lane traffic circles (4+) to be more difficult to navigate, mostly when some people in the center lanes pull a fast right turn across all lanes of traffic. Otherwise, much better than traffic lights at keeping traffic moving or first-come, first-served stop intersections when people don't really stop or sit there waving you through.

WalterBright 4mo ago

There's one installed a few years ago north of it where 132nd goes under the freeway. It used to have 2 lights to get through under the freeway. Now there are 2 roundabouts. I never have to wait anymore. It's a big win.

fimoreth 4mo ago
Agree, really thankful for those
GauntletWizard 4mo ago
Yes, because nobody goes that way anymore - It's too much of a time sink, significantly because you never end up where you want to go. Instead the real crossing points got even more crowded, or were until this abomination got installed. Thankfully, I literally sold my house because of it, and my timing was good and I got out before prices dropped.
- WalterBright 4mo ago
  Another reason it's way better is because of all the time spent waiting at a red light when there's zero cross traffic. The traffic lights all have cameras now, you'd think the traffic engineers would hook it up to AI and optimize the lights. But no. A taste of what that would be like is when all the power goes out, including the power to the traffic lights. Traffic moves faster! Because drivers cooperate. Traffic also moves faster when a cop is directing traffic.
  - entropicdrifter 4mo ago
    The lights in my small Pennsylvania town just got cameras and do seem to be using ML to recognize traffic build-up and optimize dynamically for traffic flow. Pretty cool stuff. I think the real reason they were installed was because of a new state law that goes into effect this July where you'll be fined if you're spotted holding a smartphone by a traffic cam. Still, the faster light changes are quite welcome.

dafelst 4mo ago

I drove on this for the first time yesterday, once from 405 S to 85th W, then back on 85th E and 405 N. Super easy, the lanes are fairly nicely signed and there is ample signage. No issues at all.

loeg 4mo ago
Have you done the I-90 <-> SR 18 interchange out by Preston yet?

ggm 4mo ago

"time for bed" said Zebedee.

themafia 4mo ago

The basic failure mode I would expect: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeFY9u69tkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeFY9u69tkE The adjoining roads have a large speed differential. The runoff areas around this project do not appear as if designed with this in mind. I predict a few horrible accidents and some hamfisted redesigns. The local news has a ground level view of this project: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jlPMB7c0RyQ https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jlPMB7c0RyQ

xp84 4mo ago
Your first link is hilarious. 1:38 features a tow truck wiping out. You'd think he'd seen enough people get in trouble to make him drive better!

paul7986 4mo ago

In my town of Shrewsbury PA we have a diverging diamond traffic pattern(it's sorta like a figure 8). I have no issue with it tho I have seen a car accident or two there. Roundabouts are simple and so is the diverging diamond.

vladmk 4mo ago

Hilariously great

cloverich 4mo ago

I love this roundabout, we live down the street from it. People around here drive comically bad, mostly from what i suspect is simple inexperience (many new drivers), with a surprising side of entitlement (super rich area). Together, its become my favorite experience to see all the ways people fail to navigate this wild "roundabout". And yet it still mostly works, and is loads faster than the former lights that were there before, so i suspect it will be a success in most eyes once everyone adapts. For additional fun, check out the sticker price on this intersection overhaul (which includes much more than the round about).

TulliusCicero 4mo ago
It's been not so great for me so far, but I think that's because the street I often take before getting into the roundabout is still reduced to one lane each way due to construction; once it's back to two lanes each way, I think it'll be fine.
deleted 4mo ago
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fimoreth 4mo ago

Love it, you’ve got to do 132nd street next. Trying to exit south bound during rush hour is delightful

rich_sasha 4mo ago

I assumed it would be like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Swindon) or this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempstead) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_(Hemel_Hempst... . Instead, topologically, it is a normal roundabout, just with unusual (negative) curvatures. The linked ones, also called "magic roundabouts", are roundabout rings made out of roundabouts. In particular, you can take them clockwise or anticlockwise - it is a ring of roads connected by mini roundabouts. Even just the road sign gives you a headache! Having been exposed to the idea for over a decade, I still don't know instinctively how to navigate them.

kimixa 4mo ago
They're really simple - arguably the problem is people try to treat them as a single complex unit rather than just "5 junctions in a row". Trying to think of them as a whole is rather pointless and self defeating, as there's no real advantage to doing so. Most people have no problems with the idea of a road network loop - such as around a block - but that's exactly the same thing from a driving point of view.

faxmeyourcode 4mo ago

A town I grew up in went absolutely crazy with roundabouts over the last 10 years or so. They built them everywhere. Most are pretty straightforward and they simplify traffic a ton but there were some bad design choices made. Take this similarly confusing double-roundabout for example https://maps.app.goo.gl/VTSrSWsBGnsYyzKU6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/VTSrSWsBGnsYyzKU6 There are accidents here almost every week and when an out of towner comes off the interstate to get some gas at Sam's Club (where I used to work) I had to try and explain to them how to get back onto the interstate... I might try to clone this project idea, it was fun to play! They also proposed a peanut style roundabout with a *train track going through it* that thankfully has not been built yet https://media.conwayarkansas.gov/media/documents/project/85/Tyler__Donaghey_Mini_Peanut_Roundabout_100__ICD.pdf https://media.conwayarkansas.gov/media/documents/project/85/...

ddxv 4mo ago
Wow, thanks for sharing that maps. Looking at the satellite is wild. It's all roads and parking lots, barely any buildings. Even if you did fix the massive road infrastructure, what would they do, give the land back to businesses nearby?
testing22321 4mo ago
I grew up in a town in Australia nicknamed “the city of roundabouts.” Four way stops simply don’t exist. When well designed, roundabouts are excellent for traffic flow and reducing accidents and severity of accidents. If I was king for a day I’d replace all four way stops with them.
- strken 4mo ago
  I don't think Australia has many true four way stops in cities and towns. Usually there's a give way sign on two of the directions, or lights, or a roundabout. Unmarked intersections do exist, mostly on bush tracks and backroads, but I don't think I've ever seen the four stop sign arrangement here in Vic. Apparently it's slightly more common in NSW.
  - 4mo ago

jimbobimbo 4mo ago

The new 85th St & I-405 interchange is horrible. I took it twice and both times it's too stressful and takes much longer to get off 405.

cespare 4mo ago

I live a couple of blocks away from this Kirkland roundabout and I drive through it very often -- almost every time I go anywhere. Overall, I like it. My average traversal through the roundabout, for just about any source/destination, seems a bit faster than the pre-roundabout infrastructure and much faster than the temporary so-many-stoplights configuration they had for the past year or two.

dataflow 4mo ago

Just shared a relevant video for anyone interested: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48565808 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48565808

geephroh 4mo ago

The best part about Kirkland Roundabouts is that they come in a handy family-size 24 pack. I'll let myself out.

tomfakes 4mo ago
The original Costco HQ building overlooks this new intersection, so this is almost a relevant comment
- tmathmeyer 4mo ago
  Not quite. The old corporate HQ was located at 10809 120th ave NE, which is up at exit 21 and currently being redeveloped into a townhome complex: https://www.google.com/maps/place/10809+120th+Ave+NE,+Kirkland,+WA+98033/@47.6987174,-122.1835988,1758m https://www.google.com/maps/place/10809+120th+Ave+NE,+Kirkla...

KennedyHere 4mo ago

Hey all, I'm the author of this game. I didn't expect to see it on HN! I wrote it to add some fun to all the conversations happening in the local forums about this roundabout. They've been heated at times. And, yes, this roundabout is right next to the Kirkland Costco. I definitely agree with all the critiques of the gameplay - and I have about 100 more. I cut it down to the bare essentials to get it done while it's still relevant in the community. I wouldn't even call it an MVP. I probably won't update this unless there is some greater need. Though using Godot with Claude Code was a blast so I'm motivated to do new stuff there. I've been building solutions on Unity/DX/Unreal for over a decade - Godot was such a breath of fresh air!

jt2190 4mo ago
The playlist is hilarious and really helps nail the feeling of driving around in circles! Love it!
FireBeyond 4mo ago
For bonus points, tackle Tumwater next! https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9995932,-122.9095898,279m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDYxMy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/@46.9995932,-122.9095898,279m/da... This thing is a nightmare of newly constructed, but with poor signage, rapid lane changes required at times, and "wait, which roundabout?"
- jfyne 4mo ago
  I raise you The Magic Roundabout https://maps.app.goo.gl/1Mj8tSvKNBnQMu8V7 https://maps.app.goo.gl/1Mj8tSvKNBnQMu8V7
  - Theodores 4mo ago
    Too easy. In the UK there are far more torturous roundabouts, for example, Five Ways in Birmingham, notable because you have to inch forward up a hill, always in traffic, typically with a manual gearbox, to finally get to the roundabout where the three lanes of traffic seems to already be doing 50 mph, meaning that you have to channel your drag racing skills to just get on there, without slipping backwards, damaging the clutch or coming a cropper. London has some specials too, including the traffic around Hyde Park Corner, which is like a roundabout in vacuum form. Should so much as a square foot of tarmac become vacant then it will magically suck in four taxis, two double decker buses and a dozen UberEats delivery guys, making any progress tough. Chiswick roundabout, where the M4 motorway, gateway to the West, begins is also not for those lacking testicular fortitude, my mum got stuck going round and round that one, we weren't quite dizzy by the time we got off, but it was getting that way. All is nothing though. You have got to do France, Arc de Triomphe. Cobblestones, many, many lanes, every car with dents in it and priority given to those entering the roundabout rather than those on it already. No American in an American vehicle would be able to make it through that one!

furyofantares 4mo ago

So many comments talking about how straightforward some roundabouts are, but I think you guys are confused. Roundabouts are never straightforward, you're thinking of a normal road.

eks391 4mo ago
Is this a play on the word "straight[-]forward"?
- freejazz 4mo ago
  No, its a play on the word roundabouts
  - _verandaguy 4mo ago
    This is a bit of a traffic circle way of explaining the joke.
  - dredmorbius 4mo ago
    So ... in a roundabout way, it's straight—forward, and in a straightforward way, it's roundabout?
- lucas_t_a 4mo ago
  you really cut through this one

advisedwang 4mo ago

The top down view seems to make this extra confusing: 1. You don't get to see signage that tells you what lane to be in 2. You are forced to take in irrelevant details.

drnick1 4mo ago

Roundabouts are almost always a bad idea. Thank God they are mostly a European thing.

daveguy 4mo ago
Roundabouts are almost always a good idea, assuming there is sufficient traffic. They keep traffic flowing faster, more predictably, and with fewer accidents.
- drnick1 4mo ago
  No, they just interrupt the flow of traffic by slowing it down. The classic pattern of side roads with less traffic yielding to incoming traffic on the main road carrying more traffic is the correct road layout that minimizes frustration and confusion. Roundabouts are the favorite tool of left-leaning, anti-car, vanilla soy latte-sipping urban planners.
  - enragedcacti 4mo ago
    Good to know that I'm getting to my destination faster and more safely all because of woke! https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/roundabouts#traffic-flow-benefits https://www.iihs.org/research-areas/roundabouts#traffic-flow... Btw your 'classic pattern' of highly unbalanced traffic flows is specifically called out as a non-ideal candidate for a roundabout, maybe the urban planners get cow milk in their lattes after all.
  - daveguy 4mo ago
    [flagged]
  - TulliusCicero 4mo ago
    No, they reduce the number of accidents, and also reduce the severity of accidents.
rconti 4mo ago
Four way stops that require all traffic to stop for no particular reason are always a bad idea. They're a waste of time and resources. Two way stops are OFTEN a bad idea, because they require two directions of travel to stop for _sometimes_ no particular reason. (And then they often cannot go without an extensive wait).

pryelluw 4mo ago

This is so stressful to play. Can you change the music?

agwa 4mo ago

What's particularly crazy about this interchange is that there is going to be a second, elevated peanut roundabout that's rotated 90 degrees, for buses to use: https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgaydUTu5zZRzjWuaYrVeLGK-BrP199uWPhR25VwsOy1Uj77soFaQxuoIzMff3MMgo9WPZRkgqzUqM0kwdSF0fOUnSZqV3V_dzBhRDjypOQOL9b-pK2yAEjO2Mxa7qC8bBEInTiw2aDFfrP5Mkur15_1nxtNDmNzzNK46ymuDzJPtDuwJ-NAh1FGV76XzER/s1280/85th-3LevelInterchange-Rendering.png https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg...

gs17 4mo ago
The buses will at least have an easier time, they should be all trained for how to navigate it if it's on their route, and there's much less traffic on the bus-only part.
tmathmeyer 4mo ago
I think the "peanut" shape of the transit roundabout is not final. They're going to straighten the sides to make it more of a race-track shape. Having straight sides allows the busses to align themselves better with the curbs for passenger access. That rendering is a bit nonsense, its outright missing the 85th/114th intersection
KennedyHere 4mo ago
That's a fantastic rendering. I hadn't seen it.

fermentation 4mo ago

I love roundabouts. I have no clue what on Earth compelled them to design the 85th st interchange this way, but they took maybe the most dangerous intersection I have ever seen and made it maybe twice as dangerous.

SSchick 4mo ago

[dead]

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

mglvsky 4mo ago

That combination of soundtrack and graphics reminds me of [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_n%27_Roll_Racing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_n%27_Roll_Racing

brikym 4mo ago

I'm used to roundabouts but I find the game difficult. Even if you made a basic roundabout I'd still crash a lot. 1) The car wants to go too fast on it's own. 2) The third person perspective is nothing like real driving where you simply yield to traffic on the left (or give way to the left for us down-under folks). If it's meant to be an argument against roundabouts then it's a straw man.

ghastmaster 4mo ago

This game hijacks my f5 key and alt key. I'm using brave browser on ubuntu. Can't navigate back or refresh while the game is playing. I rarely see this, maybe never have. I wonder how that is achieved?

arlattimore 4mo ago

I don't think roundabouts are complex, treat them like a giveway/yield and they are brilliant. The biggest issue is they are an infrequently used traffic control device in the US. So infrequent, I don't think they even appear in the WA drivers handbook which is kind of shocking. As a by product, you see the craziest driver behaviour in Seattle on them: 1) No one uses their indicators/turn signals as they approach. This is a major issue because it makes the roundabout incredibly ineffective, as every driver needs to treat it effectively like a 4-way stop because you don't know the intentions of the cars around you. 2) Drivers will enter the roundabout, then stop at another entryway if a car approaches. This makes no sense, as the approaching car would need to yield or stop, so it slows the traffic down again. 3) Drivers will wait at an entrance until all other cars are clear of the roundabout before entering. Again, makes no sense - you wouldn't do that on a cross-road if two cars were both indicating right etc. Definitely need more driver education on the humble roundabout!

rootusrootus 4mo ago
> So infrequent, I don't think they even appear in the WA drivers handbook which is kind of shocking They are definitely in the handbook. Couple different types, with pictures and diagrams, and written instructions.
- Jblx2 4mo ago
  Specifically, section 4.15, staring on page 126: https://dol.wa.gov/driver-licenses-and-permits/driver-training-and-testing/driver-guides https://dol.wa.gov/driver-licenses-and-permits/driver-traini...
spaqin 4mo ago
In Europe most people don't indicate when approaching the roundabout; only if you're taking the first exit. Roundabout is basically a straight road that loops itself, so there's no need for blinkers when you're on. You indicate when you want to leave, and that's how cars approaching from your exit know it's safe to get on. Besides that I'm not surprised Americans don't know how to use them; while nowhere else in the world you'll find a 4-way stop...

annzabelle 4mo ago

That's almost as bad as the diverging diamond interchanges https://www.vdot.virginia.gov/media/vdotvirginiagov/about/vdots-transportation-system/highways/innovative-intersections/divergent-diamond-interchange-ddi-2017-08-24.pdf https://www.vdot.virginia.gov/media/vdotvirginiagov/about/vd... we've started building in Virginia, where you end up driving on the left for 100 yards as you cross the interstate.