5 ms·

It's two resistors, actually. But they cost $0.0003 each (that's 0.03¢, or just around 3,333 of them for US$1) from distributors. Though there appears to be a b

It's two resistors, actually. But they cost $0.0003 each (that's 0.03¢, or just around 3,333 of them for US$1) from distributors. Though there appears to be a bit of a stock crunch right now. So... yeah. The bigger issue is not really the parts cost, it's the fact that it adds an extra part to the design that has to be purchased and tracked and assembled and blah blah blah. This is the real reason it often gets left off on the bottom-of-the-barrel products. Many times there is no other use for a 5.1kΩ resistor. And it might not even fit well at the cheap sizes (0603 or 0402), and going down to 0201-capable assembly factory flow just for these two resistors is not going to happen.

dotancohen 4mo ago
These companies are not manufacturing the device PCBAs, that is done by dedicated companies such as Flex. The PCBA manufacturing companies have warehouses of different resistors, and 5.1kΩ is extremely common. In fact, most PCB resistor values are quite flexible, to save on SKUs (in practice, to save on loading another carrier on the PnP machine) often if a specific resistor needs a specific value then all (or most of) the other resistors will use that value.
- exmadscientist 4mo ago
  I was speaking a little more towards the AliExpress end of things, which is a sadly high proportion of the devices out there. For the midsize CMs and up, you're right, they've got piles and piles of stuff and don't charge by the reel loaded. 5.1k is a surprising resistor value, a lot of modern designs don't really have anything else in that area. I'm often not able to combine anything with it when I'm cost reducing. 4.7k, sure, but there aren't a lot of those either... 2.2k is just not close enough a lot of the time (or ends up as 1k), and same for 10k. So, sadly, it often does stand alone.
  - dotancohen 4mo ago
    Interesting, thank you. That is an end of the market that I have not seen. I wonder if PD will cause a comeback of that value as more and more legacy device refreshes move to USB-C plugs.
  - crote 4mo ago
    Heh, I would've argued the opposite. 5.1k is about the middle of the generic "some kind of pullup" range of 1k-10k, so it's a perfectly fine option for strapping resistors or for a non-critical I2C bus. 4.7k would of course have been better because it's an E6 value (+-20 via the spec) rather than E24, but it's still a value I would expect any PCBA house to have in stock at all times. But I agree, 1k or 10k would be the obvious no-brainer. I reckon there's probably a technical reason for it, as it does act as a voltage divider together with the Sink pullup, so perhaps there are some restrictions there with the multiple values it needs to distinguish.
    - exmadscientist 4mo ago
      The 4.7k "default pullup" is an old-school 5V TTL thing. It works really well for TTL inputs. But CMOS inputs don't really care very much, especially if they aren't toggling or if there's a bit of hysteresis on the input stage (which there often, but not always, is). There seem to be 10k resistors in every design so CMOS pullups often end up at 10k. If power savings are a concern, especially if you need a tie-off more so than a pull resistor, 10k-100k is a perfectly valid range, and I've even used 1M in extreme circumstances. Usually 5k is a little too weak for I²C. Rule of thumb is that you want to be around 1mA, so for a 3.3V system you start at 3.3k. Generally 1.8k to 3.3k ends up being a pretty common range. More current is usually better than less current, so even at 5V where 4.7k might be OK (if you're even at 5V Vdd these days), going stronger is often a good idea. If power savings is a concern, or if timing's somehow important (did you find another touchy badly behaved I²C device? say it isn't so!) then it might be time to break out the active pullup structures (mostly current source type things). Once this is done and tested it tends to get fossilized, for good reason, so this one won't usually get swept up in a standard-effort cost reduction pass.

dotancohen 4mo ago

These companies are not manufacturing the device PCBAs, that is done by dedicated companies such as Flex. The PCBA manufacturing companies have warehouses of different resistors, and 5.1kΩ is extremely common. In fact, most PCB resistor values are quite flexible, to save on SKUs (in practice, to save on loading another carrier on the PnP machine) often if a specific resistor needs a specific value then all (or most of) the other resistors will use that value.

exmadscientist 4mo ago
I was speaking a little more towards the AliExpress end of things, which is a sadly high proportion of the devices out there. For the midsize CMs and up, you're right, they've got piles and piles of stuff and don't charge by the reel loaded. 5.1k is a surprising resistor value, a lot of modern designs don't really have anything else in that area. I'm often not able to combine anything with it when I'm cost reducing. 4.7k, sure, but there aren't a lot of those either... 2.2k is just not close enough a lot of the time (or ends up as 1k), and same for 10k. So, sadly, it often does stand alone.
- dotancohen 4mo ago
  Interesting, thank you. That is an end of the market that I have not seen. I wonder if PD will cause a comeback of that value as more and more legacy device refreshes move to USB-C plugs.
- crote 4mo ago
  Heh, I would've argued the opposite. 5.1k is about the middle of the generic "some kind of pullup" range of 1k-10k, so it's a perfectly fine option for strapping resistors or for a non-critical I2C bus. 4.7k would of course have been better because it's an E6 value (+-20 via the spec) rather than E24, but it's still a value I would expect any PCBA house to have in stock at all times. But I agree, 1k or 10k would be the obvious no-brainer. I reckon there's probably a technical reason for it, as it does act as a voltage divider together with the Sink pullup, so perhaps there are some restrictions there with the multiple values it needs to distinguish.
  - exmadscientist 4mo ago
    The 4.7k "default pullup" is an old-school 5V TTL thing. It works really well for TTL inputs. But CMOS inputs don't really care very much, especially if they aren't toggling or if there's a bit of hysteresis on the input stage (which there often, but not always, is). There seem to be 10k resistors in every design so CMOS pullups often end up at 10k. If power savings are a concern, especially if you need a tie-off more so than a pull resistor, 10k-100k is a perfectly valid range, and I've even used 1M in extreme circumstances. Usually 5k is a little too weak for I²C. Rule of thumb is that you want to be around 1mA, so for a 3.3V system you start at 3.3k. Generally 1.8k to 3.3k ends up being a pretty common range. More current is usually better than less current, so even at 5V where 4.7k might be OK (if you're even at 5V Vdd these days), going stronger is often a good idea. If power savings is a concern, or if timing's somehow important (did you find another touchy badly behaved I²C device? say it isn't so!) then it might be time to break out the active pullup structures (mostly current source type things). Once this is done and tested it tends to get fossilized, for good reason, so this one won't usually get swept up in a standard-effort cost reduction pass.