4 ms·

I'm not going to continue with someone like you who'd equate concentration camp contidions to working in a factory. It is simply highly disrespectful to those w

I'm not going to continue with someone like you who'd equate concentration camp contidions to working in a factory. It is simply highly disrespectful to those who've actually lived through or died in them. Have a good day.

ceejayoz 5mo ago
> equate concentration camp contidions to working in a factory Oh no, not accurately stating history! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_under_German_rule_during_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_under_German_rul... > The use of slave and forced labour in Nazi Germany (German: Zwangsarbeit) and throughout German-occupied Europe during World War II took place on an unprecedented scale. It was a vital part of the German economic exploitation of conquered territories. It also contributed to the mass extermination of populations in occupied Europe. Titrating the nastiness of it from "will definitely kill you" to "will make you die miserable, broke, and broken" isn't, IMO, a great fix. People are not required to be satisfied with a tiny pittance just because it's more than their neighbor has.
- satvikpendem 5mo ago
  Not sure what you're talking about, I explicitly said those are concentration camp conditions, so obviously yes Nazis murdered many people while making them work in factories. Seems like you think I think they didn't. But modern factory conditions are nowhere near what that regime did. If you want to know, work in a factory. That is what I mean by not equating concentration camp contidions to working in a modern factory.
  - ceejayoz 5mo ago
    > But modern factory conditions are nowhere near what that regime did. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53481253 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53481253 > Reports by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) and the US Congress, among others, have found that thousands of Uighurs have been transferred to work in factories across China, under conditions the ASPI report said "strongly suggest forced labour". It linked those factories to more than 80 high-profile brands, including Nike, Apple and Gap. > China, which is believed to have detained more than one million Uighurs in internment camps in Xinjiang, has described its programmes - which reportedly include forced sterilisation - as job training and education.
    - satvikpendem 5mo ago
      China is a different story altogether. They're not democratic so of course you'd expect to see things like that.
      - ceejayoz 5mo ago
        China is where all our billionaire companies have outsourced their factories to, to take advantage of those conditions for profit! They are an integral part of the story. (We're not above doing a little bit of it ourselves, as a treat, either. We left slavery legal in the Thirteenth Amendment, even. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/15/us-prison-workers-low-wages-exploited https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/15/us-prison-wo...)
  - inigyou 5mo ago
    Do modern factories hire enough people to absorb the whole population as workers?
- ToValueFunfetti 5mo ago
  You seem to be missing a very important part of that history when you make this comparison, and it's a part that I can't imagine you aren't aware of. Not stating that is not "accurately stating history", it's lying by a vile glaring omission. The US also rounded up racial undesirables into camps and used them for labor, but there's a reason that Roosevelt is looked upon more fondly than goddamn Hitler.
  - ceejayoz 5mo ago
    > The US also rounded up racial undesirables into camps and used them for labor This was also bad, yes. > there's a reason that Roosevelt is looked upon more fondly than goddamn Hitler Sure, but "less bad" isn't the same as "internment good", and the winners write the history. I am a fan of FDR! But he did some miserable shit to win a war that needed to be won, some of which we cringe at now. A handful of Nazi war crime prosecutions fell apart because Allied troops widely did the same thing, for example.
    - ToValueFunfetti 5mo ago
      This doesn't respond to my point at all. I tell you that it is ahistorical, dishonest, and disrespecful to equate subsistence farmers being forced into subsistence factory work by globalization and economic conditions with the holocaust, the mass deliberate extermination of Jews, Romani, Slavs, the disabled, etc. because one uses slavery and the other uses something that you consider comparable to slavery. Your answer is that less bad things are also bad? Sure, yeah, but they're nevertheless less bad and shouldn't be treated as equal. Not to make light of poor working conditions, dirt wages, and child labor. They can be and should be addressed. But they're not genocide and throwing out a "Arbeit macht frei!" is gross here.
      - ceejayoz 5mo ago
        "It's fine if we mistreat this subgroup, they should be grateful for what we let them have" is a shared theme between the two. And as noted elsewhere in the conversation, American companies are benefiting from actual concentration camp labor (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/aug/30/revealed-major-nba-brands-linked-to-forced-labor-in-china https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/aug/30/revealed-major...) that some deem genocide (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55973215 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55973215). https://www.yadvashem.org/articles/academic/poverty-and-persecution-the-reichsvereinigung.html https://www.yadvashem.org/articles/academic/poverty-and-pers... > Jewish institutions sought to grapple with the consequences of a process of structural pauperization as driven by deliberate policy

ceejayoz 5mo ago

> equate concentration camp contidions to working in a factory Oh no, not accurately stating history! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_under_German_rule_during_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_labour_under_German_rul... > The use of slave and forced labour in Nazi Germany (German: Zwangsarbeit) and throughout German-occupied Europe during World War II took place on an unprecedented scale. It was a vital part of the German economic exploitation of conquered territories. It also contributed to the mass extermination of populations in occupied Europe. Titrating the nastiness of it from "will definitely kill you" to "will make you die miserable, broke, and broken" isn't, IMO, a great fix. People are not required to be satisfied with a tiny pittance just because it's more than their neighbor has.

satvikpendem 5mo ago
Not sure what you're talking about, I explicitly said those are concentration camp conditions, so obviously yes Nazis murdered many people while making them work in factories. Seems like you think I think they didn't. But modern factory conditions are nowhere near what that regime did. If you want to know, work in a factory. That is what I mean by not equating concentration camp contidions to working in a modern factory.
- ceejayoz 5mo ago
  > But modern factory conditions are nowhere near what that regime did. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53481253 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-53481253 > Reports by the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI) and the US Congress, among others, have found that thousands of Uighurs have been transferred to work in factories across China, under conditions the ASPI report said "strongly suggest forced labour". It linked those factories to more than 80 high-profile brands, including Nike, Apple and Gap. > China, which is believed to have detained more than one million Uighurs in internment camps in Xinjiang, has described its programmes - which reportedly include forced sterilisation - as job training and education.
  - satvikpendem 5mo ago
    China is a different story altogether. They're not democratic so of course you'd expect to see things like that.
    - ceejayoz 5mo ago
      China is where all our billionaire companies have outsourced their factories to, to take advantage of those conditions for profit! They are an integral part of the story. (We're not above doing a little bit of it ourselves, as a treat, either. We left slavery legal in the Thirteenth Amendment, even. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/15/us-prison-workers-low-wages-exploited https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/15/us-prison-wo...)
- inigyou 5mo ago
  Do modern factories hire enough people to absorb the whole population as workers?
ToValueFunfetti 5mo ago
You seem to be missing a very important part of that history when you make this comparison, and it's a part that I can't imagine you aren't aware of. Not stating that is not "accurately stating history", it's lying by a vile glaring omission. The US also rounded up racial undesirables into camps and used them for labor, but there's a reason that Roosevelt is looked upon more fondly than goddamn Hitler.
- ceejayoz 5mo ago
  > The US also rounded up racial undesirables into camps and used them for labor This was also bad, yes. > there's a reason that Roosevelt is looked upon more fondly than goddamn Hitler Sure, but "less bad" isn't the same as "internment good", and the winners write the history. I am a fan of FDR! But he did some miserable shit to win a war that needed to be won, some of which we cringe at now. A handful of Nazi war crime prosecutions fell apart because Allied troops widely did the same thing, for example.
  - ToValueFunfetti 5mo ago
    This doesn't respond to my point at all. I tell you that it is ahistorical, dishonest, and disrespecful to equate subsistence farmers being forced into subsistence factory work by globalization and economic conditions with the holocaust, the mass deliberate extermination of Jews, Romani, Slavs, the disabled, etc. because one uses slavery and the other uses something that you consider comparable to slavery. Your answer is that less bad things are also bad? Sure, yeah, but they're nevertheless less bad and shouldn't be treated as equal. Not to make light of poor working conditions, dirt wages, and child labor. They can be and should be addressed. But they're not genocide and throwing out a "Arbeit macht frei!" is gross here.
    - ceejayoz 5mo ago
      "It's fine if we mistreat this subgroup, they should be grateful for what we let them have" is a shared theme between the two. And as noted elsewhere in the conversation, American companies are benefiting from actual concentration camp labor (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/aug/30/revealed-major-nba-brands-linked-to-forced-labor-in-china https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/aug/30/revealed-major...) that some deem genocide (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55973215 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-55973215). https://www.yadvashem.org/articles/academic/poverty-and-persecution-the-reichsvereinigung.html https://www.yadvashem.org/articles/academic/poverty-and-pers... > Jewish institutions sought to grapple with the consequences of a process of structural pauperization as driven by deliberate policy