55 ms·

Ryanair dark UX patterns summer 2026 refresher

253 points by danosull 4mo ago

fredsted 4mo ago
I see EU always regulating all sorts of things, ostensibly to help consumers, but why aren't they doing something about scam airlines like Ryanair?
- w3ll_w3ll_w3ll 4mo ago
  Dark patterns are already regulated, but Ryanair does not comply.
sutib 4mo ago
Your comment form is broken on mobile. It asks for a captcha but doesn't prompt one
- danosull 4mo ago
  Thanks very much for letting me know. I've just starting blogging again and the old Wordpress instance needs some love (or replacing...) I think I maybe enabled some background Captcha thing back in the day. It obviously doesn't work well as I have thousands of spam comments sitting in the moderate queue.
- Oarch 4mo ago
  Classic dark pattern /s
bojangleslover 4mo ago
About 1/3 of their revenue is ancillary (the dark patterns are there to cause ancillary revenue). I just flew from Bournemouth to Alicante on Ryanair for £50. A similar flight in the US (DC to Miami, for example) would be easily 5x that, possibly 7-8x. The dark patterns took me about 10min to click through. Doing the math, that means my time would have to be worth $1500/hr which is higher than the take-home (not billable) of senior partners at law firms. Ryanair has severely improved my life, especially for my fellow sun-deprived Northern Europeans. [1] https://investor.ryanair.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Ryanair-Holdings-plc-20-F-FY25.pdf https://investor.ryanair.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Ryan...
- wodenokoto 4mo ago
  That math is completely off. Those incidentals would not increase your fare 5-8 times. So that some passengers fall into the dark patterns cannot possibly make up for the price difference nor can the price difference to US be the base for your cost savings.
  - bojangleslover 4mo ago
    >Those incidentals would not increase your fare 5-8 times Oh I see what you're saying. What I'm saying is, what's the alternative? Another more expensive airline whose online check-in takes 5min instead of 10min? I'm contending that even with the dark patterns, my downside is only 1.5x cost, which is still far, far below a non-budget airline. >nor can the price difference to US be the base for your cost savings Yeah I agree it's not perfect — but as someone who used to live in the US it's a base for me
    - matt-p 4mo ago
      I think that sometimes we think just in terms of the raw price of the incidentals rather than the effect of reducing demand for incidentals. The main reason Ryanair is so cheap is that they have the fastest turn around time in the industry. This means the utilisation rate is far higher. Part of the reason they're able to turn around so quickly is that they take less hold luggage (so unloading/loading is not holding them up), un-allocated seating means they get to overbook/bin pack better, worth thinking through the second order effects.
      - sceptic123 4mo ago
        Or to look at it another way, they're perfectly happy to let you stand in a queue, outside, on the runway, in the cold/heat, waiting for them to unload/load the plane that has just landed and is often already late.
        rsynnott 4mo ago
        My personal favourite is Ryanair in Brussels airport. Ryanair generally use airstairs, and, as you say, often queueing outside. Brussels airport doesn't allow the use of airstairs. So Ryanair found a solution to be appropriately annoying; you get on the plane via a jet bridge... from an isolated building which has to be reached by bus, and which has no inside waiting space so you still have the opportunity to queue in the rain! (In fairness, they don't _always_ do this at Brussels airport, sometimes using a normal jet bridge).
flemhans 4mo ago
I am now notoriously fast at speedrunning the various airlines and ticketing sites. Wonder if that could be a YouTube Channel
codingjoe 4mo ago
If it sounds illegal, it usually is. Tricking people into buying things usually doesn't hold up in court. However, few cases ever make it there and that's what companies like these successfully gamble on.
sverhagen 4mo ago
Oh, don't get me started on Ryanair, but alas. You go through what seems the entire check-in process, you get what seems like a summary at the end, with a link to a UK government site where you need to go next to get a travel authorization, I spend an hour doing that, finally finish that, I show up to the airport the next morning to be told I'm not checked in, having to pay a hefty fee to do a late check-in for each of my five passengers. The staff at the airport isn't really Ryanair's, so recourse there. (As if having real Ryanair staff would have made a difference.) Same trip, coming back, we wait in the central terminal building until our gate is published. We go over to the gate, one of our passengers being in a wheelchair, needing an elevator, which are out of service. Friendly airport staff help us with the long detour to get to our gate. By now the doors are closed, we missed our flight. Again, having to pay a hefty fee to rebook for each of my five passengers. This is Ryanair staff, still no recourse. (But plenty of contempt.) I admit defeat, but my wife is still motivated to talk to customer support. This is months ago, I don't think that went anywhere either. They're mostly impenetrable. I don't mind their baggage policies, it's a known thing that there's upsales every step of the way, that's baked in by now (pretty much across the industry). But there's still plenty deep-dark patterns left. Thank goodness that we can vote with our feet, right, and just don't buy from them anymore. But guess what, we booked another flight for next month :)
- Shish2k 4mo ago
  Followed the app's instructions to go to gate 15, sat there waiting for the gate to open, until eventually getting a notification that I'd missed the flight from gate 30. Went to the help desk, was told that since I was the only person who made that mistake it was clearly my fault rather than the app (which was still displaying the wrong gate, even while I was at the help desk). Got booked on a $400 replacement flight for a journey which was originally $50. In the queue to board the replacement flight, I meet around 20 other people who missed the same flight for the same reason, all being told "it's clearly your own fault, ryanair has no responsibility here"...
  - marysol5 4mo ago
    Where are Ryanair flying that you paid in dollars?
ifwinterco 4mo ago
I kind of rate Ryanair because while yes they are dodgy at least they’re honest about it and just own it, no fake niceties like you get from American companies. And I’ve saved thousands of pounds in flights around Europe over the years so can’t really complain
- musiciangames 4mo ago
  I feel like lots of people hate on Ryanair because of experiences from years ago. For me, both the booking experience and the actual flights are far better than they used to be. Legroom seems the same as other airlines. And I much prefer them being strict with carry on bags, compared with those National carriers that let people onto the plane with way too much baggage, then the flight is delayed while they try and sort out the mess. The loudspeakers are no longer turned up to excruciatingly high volumes. They don’t seem to make any effort to sell you scratch cards. They even seem to have removed their policy of preventing any staff from smiling. They run in time and they’re cheap.
mdorazio 4mo ago
My favorite is how if you buy a “premium” ticket that comes with a checked bag they still try to trick you into paying for a checked bag (again).
pjmlp 4mo ago
Unfortunately some of the airports I care about only have connections mostly with low cost, Ryanair and others. If regular lines would care to offer similar connections, I would gladly pay a bit more.
- sverhagen 4mo ago
  People often say they'd gladly pay a bit more, but I don't think that's how they act. In the case of Ryanair, I think not using them often means that a casual weekend away could become a much bigger dent in my family's monthly budget.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  - GJim 4mo ago
    > People often say they'd gladly pay a bit more, but I don't think that's how they act. No. I'd gladly pay more and do. However, Ryanair (piss be upon them) have a virtual monopoly on routes I need.
  - pjmlp 4mo ago
    True, however in many cases they, or other similar companies, are the only ones covering for the route.
  - brnt 4mo ago
    I've bought Ryanair tickets twice, but never flown with them. I used _them_ as insurance for possible issues on my preferred connection or for having a minimum viable travel path while I have time to look for a better flight. Because they're the only option for certain airports I expect to actually fly with them at some point. May that day never come though ;)
    - marysol5 4mo ago
      RyanAir is fine, and has one of the best safety records in the industry. I never quite understand the hate they get, they compartmentalise the various costs into options. I've had <2hr flights before that have had a meal service I didn't need/want, but it's baked into the price and unchangeable...
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
curiousgal 4mo ago
I have never flown with them only because they're the only airline I have come across that forces you to create an account to buy a ticket.
jdw64 4mo ago
The funny thing about our era is that there is no censorship on corporations, but the state is very active in censoring individuals. Sometimes I feel that legal action is needed against the UX dark patterns of these corporations
- LoganDark 4mo ago
  Sure there's censorship on corporations. Look at how PayPal and other payment processors have been treating Steam lately. And any other platform that promotes individual freedom. Corporations are no longer immune as long as they don't support the ideology.
  - justsid 4mo ago
    I think they meant state sponsored censorship. Which definitely does exist, but it seems companies are quite creative in circumnavigating a lot of it.
- carlosjobim 4mo ago
  Just a couple of days ago a German newspaper subscription seller successfully sued Google's Gemini for slander.
LoganDark 4mo ago
No comment about how you must download the app and it is the only way to access your pass? There is not even a QR code or barcode for the pass available any other way?
- deepvibrations 4mo ago
  Yes - that's worth a mention!
- danosull 4mo ago
  Yes, great point. Privacy / dark pattern concerns aside, I used to like having a paper pass in case something happened to my device. I wonder what would happen in practice if you printed a screenshot of the app? After all, a screenshot on a phone works fine.
  - LoganDark 4mo ago
    My qualm is that corporate apps like this are malware and I don't want them on my device. Especially when they know the only way to get me to install it is to force it on me. That makes me especially not want it. So even installing the app in the first place just to get the code doesn't sit right. So this has nothing to do with where the code is, but that getting access to it at all requires the malware.
  - reddalo 4mo ago
    They currently don't check that at the gate. They just look if it's on a phone or not.
  - fractallyte 4mo ago
    I always use a screenshot – reliable, no internet connection needed. Never had a problem so far...
gib444 4mo ago
I am shocked that Ryanair stoop to such levels, because the Irish always come across as actually morally superior to many other people, and I thought that would extend to just implementing good and honest business practices at the expense of profit. I am also similarly shocked about past GDP shenanigans, aiding in tax evasion by large multinationals, and the Irish privacy regulator being so weak on GDPR violations. I don't get it - just an a few bad apples I guess. And also this happens in other countries so it's ok
- dbspin 4mo ago
  Irish person here... Ireland is a real country, with a wide diversity of human temperaments. Culture doesn't override greed, nor does it impart 'morality'. Moreover, Ireland is perhaps the most Americanised EU nation. Decades of neoliberal government, endemic corporate corruption and poor regulation of anything that threatens the corporate tax avoidance status quo.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
- rsynnott 4mo ago
  > because the Irish always come across as actually morally superior to many other people, and I thought that would extend to just implementing good and honest business practices at the expense of profit Ahahahahahah. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Haughey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Haughey (Things aren't as bad nowadays, but largely because the EU forced consumer protection and anti-corruption law upon us, certainly not because of any innate tendency to fairness.)
sylware 4mo ago
It is crazy how dark patterns are happening everywhere, for instance, in my country on post office automatons: basically in their UI, when they are asking to input your email address (which does not work with self-hosted email addresses without DNS, namely with IP literals, BTW), you cannot "see" the button to skip that step, since the button is different from all the others and clearly 'melted' in the background. I don't think this is a mistake, but something malicous clearly thought through.
gordian-mind 4mo ago
It's okay, the service they provide is invaluable: cheap movement. If anything, I wish the EU was regulated by Ryanair to stop taking all my money for zero result.
thimabi 4mo ago
That “Don’t Insure Me” option hidden in the middle of a country list is pure evil. I’m used to seeing dark patterns everywhere but that’s a first for me. From where I stand, it’s not fair to charge the hell out of people who fall for these tricks while giving steep discounts to the ones who don’t. Maybe there’s a “fool me once” aspect to Ryanair’s shenanigans, so at least their impact might be limited somehow.
- throwawaysleep 4mo ago
  Eh, we might be all better off if a lack of curiosity was more regularly financially excruciating.
  - rescripting 4mo ago
    I just want to see a price and book a flight, not engage in an online escape room with financial consequences.
  - piva00 4mo ago
    Better off by being exhausted on never trusting any purchasing process? No, thank you, I don't need nor want to be curious when I just want to purchase a flight ticket.
  - antiloper 4mo ago
    Eh, we might be collectively better of if we just all robbed your house
  - paranoidrobot 4mo ago
    I would counter this by saying we might all be better off if consumer protection laws were stronger and actively enforced against this. I don't really have a problem with offering discounts to members of X program, or if insurance is pre-selected. But the advertised price should be inclusive of everything (taxes, fees, charges, etc) and the price available to the general product before membership-exclusive pricing. So if you advertise a product for $100 then any normal person can pay $100 and get it for that. Want to sell it from cheaper to members of your reward program? Go ahead. But it can't be the most prominent price advertised for it. You want to sell insurance pre-selected? No problem but again the default advertised price needs to include it. Even if they can opt out for a cheaper price. There are sure to be edge cases. But the point being is that the price you advertise most prominently needs to be the all-inclusive price any member of the public can get without having to fight to select the correct option. We don't accept misleading and deceptive practices in other areas, why do we let airlines, hotels and hire car places do it?
neals 4mo ago
It's why they're cheap though. I fly around Europe for 30 euro's. If this is how that works, it works. And after hundred+ flights with them, believe me, I have had my share or RyanScam. I just play their game and laugh.
- tonyedgecombe 4mo ago
  There is definitely room for budget airlines but the sort of dark patterns Ryanair employs is dishonest. Personally I wouldn’t do business with someone who is constantly trying to scam me.
- csomar 4mo ago
  The problem is that they affect people unequally. I do benefit from this stuff because I can navigate the UX struggle but many people can’t and these happen to be the not so fortunate people in society and most vulnerable. It’s definitely why some stuff is regulated (ie: loan interest)
sva_ 4mo ago
When I was a broke student I used a script to observe the RyanAir prices and frequently flew around Europe for extremely cheap (10kg carry-on/backpack). Good times. These dark patterns are a nuisance but easy enough to navigate around.
alexhans 4mo ago
The Foil Arms & Hog 12 year old skit [1] is still relevant. - [1] https://youtu.be/Id-zzOGnN6A https://youtu.be/Id-zzOGnN6A (Website part at 1:42 calling out the insurance example).
Cider9986 4mo ago
Someone should make an extension that clarifies everything, kind of like the anti-enshitification extensions for youtube. https://unhook.app/ https://unhook.app/
- sph 4mo ago
  The problem is that, adapting Brandolini’s law, it is an order of magnitude harder to make an extension to circumvent these tricks when companies have teams that make daily changes to their applications to make it shittier than before
- wongarsu 4mo ago
  Last time I booked I was actually impressed with how well Ryanair was explaining everything. There is not much to clarify. You can see the same in the video in the post (which also features much clearer UX than the 8 year old example of the option in the country selector the article leads with). If anything, RyanAir's strategy is to overexplain things, in hopes that people are unwilling to read what's on the screen and just click the first thing that advances the process
sgt 4mo ago
"You must download the RyanAir app."
- markvdb 4mo ago
  Hint for dumbphone users. The app works in waydroid. Screenshot your ticket. Print it or dump it to your e-reader.
  - sgt 4mo ago
    "DRM blocked the screenshot" /s
- drnick1 4mo ago
  I refuse to download commercial apps. I exclusively book through the website and expect to receive a boarding pass by email. There is no Google Wallet on GrapheneOS anyway.
- wolvoleo 4mo ago
  This stupid change is being blocked by several countries now like Spain
jwpapi 4mo ago
I wonder if this makes the world a fairer place actually. Because it allows people that are attentive and have time to dig through this to save money. The lowest price would be higher without these patterns. It’s a polarizing idea, but frankly it’s what the world moves too and seem to work on the market. Some people are lazy or don’t have time and pay more money and some people have less time and dig through dark patterns, collect coupons or utilize ramp up subsidizing. All those people that actually "work" through it will have less of a prime as if these patterns wouldn’t exist. The question still remains would the world be a better place without these patterns,as it wastes time and acts against user intent. It’s just a fascinating question to me, because a lot of things are not as simple as they seem of the first glance.
- NicuCalcea 4mo ago
  Some people are also old, or not very technically literate, or have poor vision, or aren't experienced flyers. I can navigate around the dark patterns despite being very lazy, but my dad who only uses a computer occasionally would really struggle with them. That is not a fairer world to me.
  - marysol5 4mo ago
    If you can't navigate around "Would you like to choose this extra option", with a massive "no" button. You shouldn't be allowed outside.
    - NicuCalcea 4mo ago
      If you can't have a conversation without hyperbole and belittling others, you shouldn't be allowed inside.
- marysol5 4mo ago
  Seriously, other carriers just bundle in products/features into the cost of the ticket that you may not want or need. Like a meal service (I had that on a 90 minute flight where they woke me up for it)....I'd have paid extra to be able to avoid it. Of course these other carriers bundle it in at a premium too. I never understand the hate RyanAir gets, for splitting off services like this as a paid option.
flexagoon 4mo ago
Is seat selection really a dark pattern? Exit row seats are the most worthwhile add-on to buy when flying IMO, sometimes having even more leg room than business class seats for a fraction of the cost.
- marysol5 4mo ago
  Frustratingly my GF's first ever flight was in COVID, and she wanted to ensure we sat together, so I paid for seat selection, and for an exit row. We were one of the 10 people on the flight...including some of our friends who didn't select seats, but sat on the same row.....
  - flexagoon 4mo ago
    Yep, that sucks. But on the other hand, overbooking is a thing, so if you buy a ticket without seat selection for a popular flight there's a chance you literally won't be let into the plane you paid for because all the seats are already taken. Happened to me once, I had to agree to a free replacement ticket to a different city in an entirely different European country (Brussels instead of Cologne) and spend about 200€ on a late night taxi to my destination.
bz_bz_bz 4mo ago
I would argue that 4 and 6 are not dark patterns but necessary CYA given they cover two of their most common complaints.
drooopy 4mo ago
The Ryanair website is a who's who of everything you're supposed to avoid in UI/UX design.
jen729w 4mo ago
I just ordered a pizza from Uber Eats here in Taiwan and was offered the option to "Try Uber One". Clicking "Try now" in fact just signs you up for Uber One. So I suppose you are, technically, trying it. For money. Dirty. I'm Australian and I'm sure that wouldn't be legal.
- csomar 4mo ago
  When I am looking at airbnb I use an Australian VPN to get pricing to work as it should.
- marysol5 4mo ago
  Uber Taxis has started pushing "Uber Comfort" to the top of the list too, you get a discounted rate that's lower then the standard one. But you have to wait longer, and I assume it signs you up to another premium product. I had "Uber One" for a month then cancelled just before renewal around Christmas. :D
  - Tade0 4mo ago
    "wait longer" - the other day I had two drivers cancel on me and the third only accept because he was within line of sight to my location. We talked and turns out the driver can earn as little as 1/3 of the price you paid. I asked if tips are also "taxed" like that and apparently no, so I just left a 100% tip. I'm getting a normal taxi next time.
- wolvoleo 4mo ago
  And Uber one doesn't really offer much. Even with the discount they are still more expensive than local alternative Glovo and Cabify.
amiga386 4mo ago
Fascinating Aida: Cheap Flights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAg0lUYHHFc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAg0lUYHHFc After studying the website we decided it was best to pay priority boarding so we'd sit three abreast (three abreast, that's the best) And of course we'd all have luggage, so that's an extra cost And then we paid insurance in case our cases might get lost
debarshri 4mo ago
Ryanair is genuinely a good product. You get what you pay for. The website reflects their corporate attitude, which i think is okay.
- Grombobulous 4mo ago
  Maybe I am conditioned but I totally agree. I think what makes this kind of stuff not feel like a dark pattern to me is that they are very up-front about this setup being their business model. They are offering a cheap seat which may even be below their cost if you avoid all the add-ons. The consumer who skips all these add-ons feels smart. They feel like someone else is subsidizing their flight. Perhaps we can even call this booking process a game where the customer comes out at the end feeling like they beat the level. If any of you have seen Ryanair’s social media marketing you’ll know exactly what I mean. They make jokes about how cheap they are, like this one: https://www.instagram.com/p/DRWGfNvDryu/ https://www.instagram.com/p/DRWGfNvDryu/
  - macintux 4mo ago
    The dark patterns are one thing; the criminal customer service once you're booked, however, seems much harder to game. Stories from this thread mean I'd never fly them (admittedly, I'll probably never have the opportunity): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48502935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48502935
    - marysol5 4mo ago
      But that was this persons mistake, I'm still not sure what a "Travel Authorisation" even is outside of COVID checks. Not checking into a flight, because you wont onto an entirely different website, to complete an entirely different form isn't the airline.... Services for wheelchair are handled by the airport, not the airline, again, I don't see anything in this comment where they sorted out the services that are required prior.
    - basisword 4mo ago
      1. They make the online check-in thing ridiculously clear and it's been like that for at least a decade now. They send multiple emails warning people too. 2. Having utilised wheelchairs at airports you need to go very early. The airports don't have enough staff and they basically have to assign you someone for an hour to get you through security and on to the plane. The times I've done it, it's always airport staff and nothing to do with the airline.
not-kinsale-joe 4mo ago
I find the dark patterns here acceptable because the prices on their flights are so grossly cheap. I can always fly on KLM, British Airways ect
rsynnott 4mo ago
It's amazing; I take maybe five or six Ryanair flights a year, and every single time checkin is worse than the time before. Unfortunately, they're often the only option from Dublin->wherever with reasonable times; unless I want to go at five in the morning or something I am stuck with them.
- iamflimflam1 4mo ago
  And this the big problem. Normally, competition would take care of this. Someone would come along and offer a better service. Unfortunately there are many instances of no competition - which then leads to abuse.
  - macintux 4mo ago
    It's difficult to compete in a highly price-sensitive market with a company that is effectively scamming its customers. Better service doesn't show up on the price comparison page everyone starts out with.
Grombobulous 4mo ago
I want to remind everyone just how bad of a deal travel insurance is. Yes, there are instances where travel insurance makes sense or may be practically a requirement. Health and/or evacuation insurance for foreign travel and/or cruising may be practically a necessity. You don’t want to be paying tens of thousands of dollars when you need a helicopter to take you off your cruise ship to a hospital. But if your primary reason for purchasing insurance is insuring yourself against a trip that has to be skipped or modified last minute, you can probably skip it. The way I insure against these sort of things: - Buying hotel rooms that are not prepaid and refundable up until the day before check-in - Paying attention to airline policies. Sure, my United airlines fare isn’t refundable, but if I cancel the flights I get all the money back in flight credits I can use within 6 months. - Rental cars, same deal as hotels. They’re easy to book with no payment up front. - Use a good travel credit card with its own trip insurance perks (usually not as comprehensive) Do I pay more to book flexible like this? Yeah, but I can also keep my money gaining interest until the day of the trip. And the thing about travel insurance is that you still have to deal with the claims process if you need to use it.
- brnt 4mo ago
  > Rental cars That's a whole new can of worms though. Their scams can be a lot more expensive, and are usually after the fact (although they'll try them at the pickup counter too). It's one of those things I will specifically always arrange through a third party that covers insurance as well, which is really an insurance against the rental companies scams.
  - PxldLtd 4mo ago
    Yeah, I don't think I'm ever getting that €600 back from Hertz Calais. Still bitter about it.
  - Grombobulous 4mo ago
    My credit card pretty much covers anything that can go wrong with car insurance, as well as insures the full value of the vehicle. I do realize that this may not be available in countries that properly regulate credit cards so that they don’t create a caste system of rewards card benefits.
mapkkk 4mo ago
Let us not forget that, low cost carriers and full service carriers alike _all_ have artificially lower prices, prices below what it would actually cost to render their services, as the entire commercial aviation industry is subsidized in the form of fuel, tax and other subsidies. At least in the EU. They wouldn't be able to turn a profit even if they squeezed you hard enough.
leni536 4mo ago
And a last, most sneaky one: At checkout if you pay with credit/debit card don't use Ryanair's "guaranteed exhange rate" if the cost of the flight is not in your card's currency (ticket by default, at least two clicks to find and untick it). That's ~6% gap from mid-market exhange rate, the worst cards do better than that.
- reddalo 4mo ago
  Yeah but that's general advice, you shouldn't also do that with PayPal, or while paying abroad. ALWAYS pay in the local currency, never in your own.
- chatmasta 4mo ago
  Even Amazon does this. So scummy. This exchange rate trick should be illegal everywhere.
- ProllyInfamous 4mo ago
  This is like in stocktrading platforms where "best rate" is offered, and is in fact the worst of several options. ---- Can we stop with all this Newspeak, already? Words should flow with the conversationalists, not political spindoctor lexicologists.
eithed 4mo ago
Leaving this here, as I couldn't leave it on authors blogpost: I grew accustomed to these choices, so would navigate through them on autopilot. Once I was quick enough to get "We noticed suspicious activity indicating that you're a bot"; had to retry everything from beginning and hesitate when clicking :)
- rsynnott 4mo ago
  Ah, yes, but they're onto you; they've started _changing_ it quite regularly.
forgingahead 4mo ago
I understand the frustrations, but...we're all grown adults here right? Who DOESN'T pay for seat selection if you want or need a good one? The insurance item is ridiculous, but...again, for grown adults with families/kids, do you really fly Ryanair?
- rsynnott 4mo ago
  > but...again, for grown adults with families/kids, do you really fly Ryanair? Every time I'm on a Ryanair flight to Spain, it's very family-heavy. Like, why wouldn't families go on Ryanair? If nothing else, they have a near-monopoly on certain routes.
- tim333 4mo ago
  As a many times Ryanair user I don't. I get allocated some crappy random seat, enter the plane last and sit somewhere else, often a row to myself.
maxehmookau 4mo ago
Using the Ryanair website makes me feel icky. The whole thing feels like you have to be constantly on guard not to get tricked - and I'm relatively wise to these things. I dread to think how much of their revenue is generated from people buying stuff they don't want or need. I will always pay more to not use Ryanair, given the choice. Unfortunately I don't always have a choice.
- aembleton 4mo ago
  If its happening often, create some uBO rules to block the worst of it
hzwanip 4mo ago
When is the EU fining these morons?
DimitriBouriez 4mo ago
[dead]
mschuster91 4mo ago
> Don’t rent a car, don’t buy parking, don’t buy a train(?) In Europe, it is pretty common to continue onwards to your actual destination by train!
- rsynnott 4mo ago
  They will, entertainingly, try to sell you train tickets even if the airport doesn't have a train station. They also send _constant_ emails about car rental (I assume it must be a profit centre for them). Yes, Ryanair, I will definitely want to rent a car for my weekend trip to notoriously-car-friendly _London_.
- tim333 4mo ago
  But it's usually better to buy the train ticket at the station rather than from Ryanair.
  - mschuster91 4mo ago
    Better, yes. More convenient, no. That's why Bookingcom offers to load you with a rental car, train ticket and god knows what else, why Ryanair offers train tickets and why hotels do the same - massively reduced friction.
    - tim333 4mo ago
      Slightly reduced friction but it locks you into whichever service they sell which isn't always the most convenient at airports with multiple travel options.
frictasolver 4mo ago
[flagged]
Toutouxc 4mo ago
I consider myself kind of sensitive to being forced to do stuff, but Ryanair just doesn't seem that bad. Of course, you get a million offers for things you probably don't need, but I genuinely don't feel like they're trying to scam me. It's like ad-supported Spotify or something. Annoying, but not actively trying to vacuum up my credit card.
- vachina 4mo ago
  Yeah. I fly budget and mid tier all the time, they’re all the same trying to upsell a bazillion services. Just click no/decline/reject all the way, what’s so difficult about it?
  - josephcsible 4mo ago
    > Just click no/decline/reject all the way, what’s so difficult about it? Things like this: > Don’t click “Upgrade to Priority & 2 Cabin Bags”. This one is particularly sneaky as it doesn’t have a “No” option, you must dismiss the window.
- justsid 4mo ago
  “Ad” supported? It’s other people holding the bag for falling for these.
  - Toutouxc 4mo ago
    Do we have any numbers for this? Are those people “falling” for it or are they just choosing to buy the upgrades? I’ve paid for good (window!) seats on Ryanair flights, I’ve paid for luggage, I’ve bought a snack from the trolley. It would make sense to me that other people might be paying for other services.
    - justsid 3mo ago
      I assume if the people willingly wanting all these extras were enough, their business wasn’t an exercise in adding as many dark patterns as possible. But you are right, I don’t have direct evidence or numbers, but the behaviour doesn’t track with a company that isn’t trying to exploit its customers.
shark1 4mo ago
They managed to create a business model relying in some sort of "slot machine" where customers buy the ticket to discover later they are "stupid" not noticing some rule hidden in the meticulously engineered dark patterns and, to board now and do not miss the planned trip, they will have to pay an expensive fee. It is still impressive for me they managing to be this good in being nefarious at same time they have to worry about executing the service in such a complex industry. The cherry on top is their social media, successfully bringing humour to alleviate and to make all of this acceptable, as it was just part of a bigger joke.
jrflo 4mo ago
I feel like this is only slightly worse than booking on any other airline. Even the supposedly "good" ones like Delta do a lot of these tricks. No reason not to, it's basically free revenue for them.
RobotToaster 4mo ago
The airline so bad there's an entire song about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPyl2tOaKxM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPyl2tOaKxM
markvdb 4mo ago
About ten years ago, Ryanaiar suffered a booking system malfunction. My ticket was wrongly booked to "John Smith" and apparently sent to an email address "joxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx" due to a flaw in their booking system. I noticed when trying to check in online far in advance. After many hours spent fruitlessly fighting the Ryanair customer disservice desk, I decided to enlist the help of my local ECC [0]. I paid Ryanair a 120€ name change fee and had the ECC claim it back for me. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Consumer_Centres_Network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Consumer_Centres_Netw...
- burlistic 4mo ago
  Email addressing being recycled is a valid problem and challenge. Many sites use an email address as the main unique ID for customers, yet this email address and the account can expire if not used for a prolonged period, hence being recycled and then re-registered by someone else. It doesn't sound like this caused your issue. But it is a genuine challenge for large companies like Ryanair and for users who might have registered using an old email they no longer own. MFA and getting a reset confirmation via your mobile as an example can help people from resetting the password and logging in to see personal information which isn't theirs. Companies need a way of recycling this accounts and letting people re-register, ideally not having to call a support line.
bux93 4mo ago
If you book Ryanair, and your concentration slips up for a second, you WILL make a mistake and it WILL cost you money and/or inconvenience you. Then you might complain about that, and be met with smarmy, smug, smarter-than-you people who insist that they fly with Ryanair all the time and never pay too much, people who can't read shouldn't be allowed to book flights, etc. etc. It's worth avoiding Ryanair just to avoid that scenario.
- basisword 4mo ago
  Maybe it's just me but I can't imagine booking a flight and not paying serious attention the whole time and double checking everything. Even with the high-end airlines you don't want to make mistakes. I think a lot of the 'attitude' you see is when people complain publicly about things that are entirely their fault. e.g. "They charged me to print my boarding pass, I didn't know I had to do it digitally" - probably because you ignored the multiple emails they sent you over the last month warning you. Or "my bag was fine on the way over and now they say it's too big" - you never bothered to check the size and got lucky on the way over. All of these types of rules have been in place for decades now and it's always the seem people holding everyone up because they think the rules don't apply to them. The worst experience I've had with booking _ever_ was recently and it wasn't Ryanair. Whizzair rejected my cards (all of them) and then said the only option was a bank transfer. No fucking way am I doing that. Then my partner tried on her app. Every time she went from the payment screen to her banking app to approve the transaction, she'd go back and the entire app had lost state.
- cryo32 4mo ago
  There is a somewhat weird Ryanair loyalist contingent.
abc123abc123 4mo ago
The ryanair experience is so abysmal, so revolting, that I gladly pay 2x-3x the price with regular state backed carriers, just to avoid ryanair. I feel sad when I think about people who can not afford to do that, and must tolerate being pissed in the face, repeatedly, every time they travel with ryanair. I do hope they disappear from the planet. The planet and the human race would be better off.
cromka 4mo ago
When checking in, Ryanair UI makes you click "I don't want a seat" instead of "I don't want TO CHOOSE a seat" when you want to opt out from paying for one. This should be punishable by law.
cryo32 4mo ago
I refuse to fly Ryanair. Total bastards from end to end. Easyjet are several hundred percent less clowns. Actually anyone else is.
aquir 4mo ago
The whole "digital boarding pass" is a lie. My dad don't have a smartphone so you check in at home and at the airport at the desk they print the boarding pass for you if you checked in. Sorted.
4rt 4mo ago
Another one not mentioned is trying to book a trip for e.g. 3 people, but only one item of hold luggage. You just can't do it, you have to add it later in an amend-booking. Jet2's not quite as bad, its possible but difficult.
tim333 4mo ago
Ryanair isn't that bad hence their ascent from a small airline to Europe's largest. The flights are usually cheap, on time and clicking through the junk only takes five minutes. They do occasionally get you with stupid charges. I think the worst I had was being charged £200 or so because I tried checking in online 1hr55m before takeoff and you were supposed to do it 2 hrs ahead. (2 passengers x £100). Swings and roundabouts.
arch_deluxe 4mo ago
I don’t think the neologism “dark patterns” is necessary or adds any clarity; it’s almost a euphemism. Can’t we just call this “dishonest design”? I would personally find that a lot clearer.
burlistic 4mo ago
Love the blog post and was curious to see what the Ryan air flow and ux patterns looked like these days. I've found that not selecting a seat often works out best for me and my family. Regardless of when I check in. The algorithms for seat selection seem to always auto allocate you and your party together. If you have young kids they are obligated for them to be seated with their parents. Same for people with disabilities I would guess - although I'm not sure if this would be flagged online. This could be sorted at the check-in counter. If your kids are older they are probably quite happy not sitting next to you anyway! For years I've not selected seating and it's worked out well. On our last trip with BA we actually ended up with premium seats with extra leg room. Nine times out of ten we've been all together. Plus if you really want to sit together. People are often happy to swap like for like seats. P.S I tried to post this on the blog comments but kept getting blocked by capture. Saying I need to solve correctly. I tried about five times. Looks to be an issue
mokaytianao 4mo ago
[flagged]
mokaytianao 4mo ago
[dead]

253 points by danosull 4mo ago

I see EU always regulating all sorts of things, ostensibly to help consumers, but why aren't they doing something about scam airlines like Ryanair?

w3ll_w3ll_w3ll 4mo ago
Dark patterns are already regulated, but Ryanair does not comply.

sutib 4mo ago

Your comment form is broken on mobile. It asks for a captcha but doesn't prompt one

danosull 4mo ago
Thanks very much for letting me know. I've just starting blogging again and the old Wordpress instance needs some love (or replacing...) I think I maybe enabled some background Captcha thing back in the day. It obviously doesn't work well as I have thousands of spam comments sitting in the moderate queue.
Oarch 4mo ago
Classic dark pattern /s

bojangleslover 4mo ago

About 1/3 of their revenue is ancillary (the dark patterns are there to cause ancillary revenue). I just flew from Bournemouth to Alicante on Ryanair for £50. A similar flight in the US (DC to Miami, for example) would be easily 5x that, possibly 7-8x. The dark patterns took me about 10min to click through. Doing the math, that means my time would have to be worth $1500/hr which is higher than the take-home (not billable) of senior partners at law firms. Ryanair has severely improved my life, especially for my fellow sun-deprived Northern Europeans. [1] https://investor.ryanair.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Ryanair-Holdings-plc-20-F-FY25.pdf https://investor.ryanair.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/Ryan...

wodenokoto 4mo ago
That math is completely off. Those incidentals would not increase your fare 5-8 times. So that some passengers fall into the dark patterns cannot possibly make up for the price difference nor can the price difference to US be the base for your cost savings.
- bojangleslover 4mo ago
  >Those incidentals would not increase your fare 5-8 times Oh I see what you're saying. What I'm saying is, what's the alternative? Another more expensive airline whose online check-in takes 5min instead of 10min? I'm contending that even with the dark patterns, my downside is only 1.5x cost, which is still far, far below a non-budget airline. >nor can the price difference to US be the base for your cost savings Yeah I agree it's not perfect — but as someone who used to live in the US it's a base for me
  - matt-p 4mo ago
    I think that sometimes we think just in terms of the raw price of the incidentals rather than the effect of reducing demand for incidentals. The main reason Ryanair is so cheap is that they have the fastest turn around time in the industry. This means the utilisation rate is far higher. Part of the reason they're able to turn around so quickly is that they take less hold luggage (so unloading/loading is not holding them up), un-allocated seating means they get to overbook/bin pack better, worth thinking through the second order effects.
    - sceptic123 4mo ago
      Or to look at it another way, they're perfectly happy to let you stand in a queue, outside, on the runway, in the cold/heat, waiting for them to unload/load the plane that has just landed and is often already late.
      - rsynnott 4mo ago
        My personal favourite is Ryanair in Brussels airport. Ryanair generally use airstairs, and, as you say, often queueing outside. Brussels airport doesn't allow the use of airstairs. So Ryanair found a solution to be appropriately annoying; you get on the plane via a jet bridge... from an isolated building which has to be reached by bus, and which has no inside waiting space so you still have the opportunity to queue in the rain! (In fairness, they don't _always_ do this at Brussels airport, sometimes using a normal jet bridge).

flemhans 4mo ago

I am now notoriously fast at speedrunning the various airlines and ticketing sites. Wonder if that could be a YouTube Channel

codingjoe 4mo ago

If it sounds illegal, it usually is. Tricking people into buying things usually doesn't hold up in court. However, few cases ever make it there and that's what companies like these successfully gamble on.

sverhagen 4mo ago

Oh, don't get me started on Ryanair, but alas. You go through what seems the entire check-in process, you get what seems like a summary at the end, with a link to a UK government site where you need to go next to get a travel authorization, I spend an hour doing that, finally finish that, I show up to the airport the next morning to be told I'm not checked in, having to pay a hefty fee to do a late check-in for each of my five passengers. The staff at the airport isn't really Ryanair's, so recourse there. (As if having real Ryanair staff would have made a difference.) Same trip, coming back, we wait in the central terminal building until our gate is published. We go over to the gate, one of our passengers being in a wheelchair, needing an elevator, which are out of service. Friendly airport staff help us with the long detour to get to our gate. By now the doors are closed, we missed our flight. Again, having to pay a hefty fee to rebook for each of my five passengers. This is Ryanair staff, still no recourse. (But plenty of contempt.) I admit defeat, but my wife is still motivated to talk to customer support. This is months ago, I don't think that went anywhere either. They're mostly impenetrable. I don't mind their baggage policies, it's a known thing that there's upsales every step of the way, that's baked in by now (pretty much across the industry). But there's still plenty deep-dark patterns left. Thank goodness that we can vote with our feet, right, and just don't buy from them anymore. But guess what, we booked another flight for next month :)

Shish2k 4mo ago
Followed the app's instructions to go to gate 15, sat there waiting for the gate to open, until eventually getting a notification that I'd missed the flight from gate 30. Went to the help desk, was told that since I was the only person who made that mistake it was clearly my fault rather than the app (which was still displaying the wrong gate, even while I was at the help desk). Got booked on a $400 replacement flight for a journey which was originally $50. In the queue to board the replacement flight, I meet around 20 other people who missed the same flight for the same reason, all being told "it's clearly your own fault, ryanair has no responsibility here"...
- marysol5 4mo ago
  Where are Ryanair flying that you paid in dollars?

ifwinterco 4mo ago

I kind of rate Ryanair because while yes they are dodgy at least they’re honest about it and just own it, no fake niceties like you get from American companies. And I’ve saved thousands of pounds in flights around Europe over the years so can’t really complain

musiciangames 4mo ago
I feel like lots of people hate on Ryanair because of experiences from years ago. For me, both the booking experience and the actual flights are far better than they used to be. Legroom seems the same as other airlines. And I much prefer them being strict with carry on bags, compared with those National carriers that let people onto the plane with way too much baggage, then the flight is delayed while they try and sort out the mess. The loudspeakers are no longer turned up to excruciatingly high volumes. They don’t seem to make any effort to sell you scratch cards. They even seem to have removed their policy of preventing any staff from smiling. They run in time and they’re cheap.

mdorazio 4mo ago

My favorite is how if you buy a “premium” ticket that comes with a checked bag they still try to trick you into paying for a checked bag (again).

pjmlp 4mo ago

Unfortunately some of the airports I care about only have connections mostly with low cost, Ryanair and others. If regular lines would care to offer similar connections, I would gladly pay a bit more.

sverhagen 4mo ago
People often say they'd gladly pay a bit more, but I don't think that's how they act. In the case of Ryanair, I think not using them often means that a casual weekend away could become a much bigger dent in my family's monthly budget.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- GJim 4mo ago
  > People often say they'd gladly pay a bit more, but I don't think that's how they act. No. I'd gladly pay more and do. However, Ryanair (piss be upon them) have a virtual monopoly on routes I need.
- pjmlp 4mo ago
  True, however in many cases they, or other similar companies, are the only ones covering for the route.
- brnt 4mo ago
  I've bought Ryanair tickets twice, but never flown with them. I used _them_ as insurance for possible issues on my preferred connection or for having a minimum viable travel path while I have time to look for a better flight. Because they're the only option for certain airports I expect to actually fly with them at some point. May that day never come though ;)
  - marysol5 4mo ago
    RyanAir is fine, and has one of the best safety records in the industry. I never quite understand the hate they get, they compartmentalise the various costs into options. I've had <2hr flights before that have had a meal service I didn't need/want, but it's baked into the price and unchangeable...

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

curiousgal 4mo ago

I have never flown with them only because they're the only airline I have come across that forces you to create an account to buy a ticket.

jdw64 4mo ago

The funny thing about our era is that there is no censorship on corporations, but the state is very active in censoring individuals. Sometimes I feel that legal action is needed against the UX dark patterns of these corporations

LoganDark 4mo ago
Sure there's censorship on corporations. Look at how PayPal and other payment processors have been treating Steam lately. And any other platform that promotes individual freedom. Corporations are no longer immune as long as they don't support the ideology.
- justsid 4mo ago
  I think they meant state sponsored censorship. Which definitely does exist, but it seems companies are quite creative in circumnavigating a lot of it.
carlosjobim 4mo ago
Just a couple of days ago a German newspaper subscription seller successfully sued Google's Gemini for slander.

LoganDark 4mo ago

No comment about how you must download the app and it is the only way to access your pass? There is not even a QR code or barcode for the pass available any other way?

deepvibrations 4mo ago
Yes - that's worth a mention!
danosull 4mo ago
Yes, great point. Privacy / dark pattern concerns aside, I used to like having a paper pass in case something happened to my device. I wonder what would happen in practice if you printed a screenshot of the app? After all, a screenshot on a phone works fine.
- LoganDark 4mo ago
  My qualm is that corporate apps like this are malware and I don't want them on my device. Especially when they know the only way to get me to install it is to force it on me. That makes me especially not want it. So even installing the app in the first place just to get the code doesn't sit right. So this has nothing to do with where the code is, but that getting access to it at all requires the malware.
- reddalo 4mo ago
  They currently don't check that at the gate. They just look if it's on a phone or not.
- fractallyte 4mo ago
  I always use a screenshot – reliable, no internet connection needed. Never had a problem so far...

gib444 4mo ago

I am shocked that Ryanair stoop to such levels, because the Irish always come across as actually morally superior to many other people, and I thought that would extend to just implementing good and honest business practices at the expense of profit. I am also similarly shocked about past GDP shenanigans, aiding in tax evasion by large multinationals, and the Irish privacy regulator being so weak on GDPR violations. I don't get it - just an a few bad apples I guess. And also this happens in other countries so it's ok

dbspin 4mo ago
Irish person here... Ireland is a real country, with a wide diversity of human temperaments. Culture doesn't override greed, nor does it impart 'morality'. Moreover, Ireland is perhaps the most Americanised EU nation. Decades of neoliberal government, endemic corporate corruption and poor regulation of anything that threatens the corporate tax avoidance status quo.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
rsynnott 4mo ago
> because the Irish always come across as actually morally superior to many other people, and I thought that would extend to just implementing good and honest business practices at the expense of profit Ahahahahahah. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Haughey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Haughey (Things aren't as bad nowadays, but largely because the EU forced consumer protection and anti-corruption law upon us, certainly not because of any innate tendency to fairness.)

sylware 4mo ago

It is crazy how dark patterns are happening everywhere, for instance, in my country on post office automatons: basically in their UI, when they are asking to input your email address (which does not work with self-hosted email addresses without DNS, namely with IP literals, BTW), you cannot "see" the button to skip that step, since the button is different from all the others and clearly 'melted' in the background. I don't think this is a mistake, but something malicous clearly thought through.

gordian-mind 4mo ago

It's okay, the service they provide is invaluable: cheap movement. If anything, I wish the EU was regulated by Ryanair to stop taking all my money for zero result.

thimabi 4mo ago

That “Don’t Insure Me” option hidden in the middle of a country list is pure evil. I’m used to seeing dark patterns everywhere but that’s a first for me. From where I stand, it’s not fair to charge the hell out of people who fall for these tricks while giving steep discounts to the ones who don’t. Maybe there’s a “fool me once” aspect to Ryanair’s shenanigans, so at least their impact might be limited somehow.

throwawaysleep 4mo ago
Eh, we might be all better off if a lack of curiosity was more regularly financially excruciating.
- rescripting 4mo ago
  I just want to see a price and book a flight, not engage in an online escape room with financial consequences.
- piva00 4mo ago
  Better off by being exhausted on never trusting any purchasing process? No, thank you, I don't need nor want to be curious when I just want to purchase a flight ticket.
- antiloper 4mo ago
  Eh, we might be collectively better of if we just all robbed your house
- paranoidrobot 4mo ago
  I would counter this by saying we might all be better off if consumer protection laws were stronger and actively enforced against this. I don't really have a problem with offering discounts to members of X program, or if insurance is pre-selected. But the advertised price should be inclusive of everything (taxes, fees, charges, etc) and the price available to the general product before membership-exclusive pricing. So if you advertise a product for $100 then any normal person can pay $100 and get it for that. Want to sell it from cheaper to members of your reward program? Go ahead. But it can't be the most prominent price advertised for it. You want to sell insurance pre-selected? No problem but again the default advertised price needs to include it. Even if they can opt out for a cheaper price. There are sure to be edge cases. But the point being is that the price you advertise most prominently needs to be the all-inclusive price any member of the public can get without having to fight to select the correct option. We don't accept misleading and deceptive practices in other areas, why do we let airlines, hotels and hire car places do it?

neals 4mo ago

It's why they're cheap though. I fly around Europe for 30 euro's. If this is how that works, it works. And after hundred+ flights with them, believe me, I have had my share or RyanScam. I just play their game and laugh.

tonyedgecombe 4mo ago
There is definitely room for budget airlines but the sort of dark patterns Ryanair employs is dishonest. Personally I wouldn’t do business with someone who is constantly trying to scam me.
csomar 4mo ago
The problem is that they affect people unequally. I do benefit from this stuff because I can navigate the UX struggle but many people can’t and these happen to be the not so fortunate people in society and most vulnerable. It’s definitely why some stuff is regulated (ie: loan interest)

sva_ 4mo ago

When I was a broke student I used a script to observe the RyanAir prices and frequently flew around Europe for extremely cheap (10kg carry-on/backpack). Good times. These dark patterns are a nuisance but easy enough to navigate around.

alexhans 4mo ago

The Foil Arms & Hog 12 year old skit [1] is still relevant. - [1] https://youtu.be/Id-zzOGnN6A https://youtu.be/Id-zzOGnN6A (Website part at 1:42 calling out the insurance example).

Cider9986 4mo ago

Someone should make an extension that clarifies everything, kind of like the anti-enshitification extensions for youtube. https://unhook.app/ https://unhook.app/

sph 4mo ago
The problem is that, adapting Brandolini’s law, it is an order of magnitude harder to make an extension to circumvent these tricks when companies have teams that make daily changes to their applications to make it shittier than before
wongarsu 4mo ago
Last time I booked I was actually impressed with how well Ryanair was explaining everything. There is not much to clarify. You can see the same in the video in the post (which also features much clearer UX than the 8 year old example of the option in the country selector the article leads with). If anything, RyanAir's strategy is to overexplain things, in hopes that people are unwilling to read what's on the screen and just click the first thing that advances the process

sgt 4mo ago

"You must download the RyanAir app."

markvdb 4mo ago
Hint for dumbphone users. The app works in waydroid. Screenshot your ticket. Print it or dump it to your e-reader.
- sgt 4mo ago
  "DRM blocked the screenshot" /s
drnick1 4mo ago
I refuse to download commercial apps. I exclusively book through the website and expect to receive a boarding pass by email. There is no Google Wallet on GrapheneOS anyway.
wolvoleo 4mo ago
This stupid change is being blocked by several countries now like Spain

jwpapi 4mo ago

I wonder if this makes the world a fairer place actually. Because it allows people that are attentive and have time to dig through this to save money. The lowest price would be higher without these patterns. It’s a polarizing idea, but frankly it’s what the world moves too and seem to work on the market. Some people are lazy or don’t have time and pay more money and some people have less time and dig through dark patterns, collect coupons or utilize ramp up subsidizing. All those people that actually "work" through it will have less of a prime as if these patterns wouldn’t exist. The question still remains would the world be a better place without these patterns,as it wastes time and acts against user intent. It’s just a fascinating question to me, because a lot of things are not as simple as they seem of the first glance.

NicuCalcea 4mo ago
Some people are also old, or not very technically literate, or have poor vision, or aren't experienced flyers. I can navigate around the dark patterns despite being very lazy, but my dad who only uses a computer occasionally would really struggle with them. That is not a fairer world to me.
- marysol5 4mo ago
  If you can't navigate around "Would you like to choose this extra option", with a massive "no" button. You shouldn't be allowed outside.
  - NicuCalcea 4mo ago
    If you can't have a conversation without hyperbole and belittling others, you shouldn't be allowed inside.
marysol5 4mo ago
Seriously, other carriers just bundle in products/features into the cost of the ticket that you may not want or need. Like a meal service (I had that on a 90 minute flight where they woke me up for it)....I'd have paid extra to be able to avoid it. Of course these other carriers bundle it in at a premium too. I never understand the hate RyanAir gets, for splitting off services like this as a paid option.

flexagoon 4mo ago

Is seat selection really a dark pattern? Exit row seats are the most worthwhile add-on to buy when flying IMO, sometimes having even more leg room than business class seats for a fraction of the cost.

marysol5 4mo ago
Frustratingly my GF's first ever flight was in COVID, and she wanted to ensure we sat together, so I paid for seat selection, and for an exit row. We were one of the 10 people on the flight...including some of our friends who didn't select seats, but sat on the same row.....
- flexagoon 4mo ago
  Yep, that sucks. But on the other hand, overbooking is a thing, so if you buy a ticket without seat selection for a popular flight there's a chance you literally won't be let into the plane you paid for because all the seats are already taken. Happened to me once, I had to agree to a free replacement ticket to a different city in an entirely different European country (Brussels instead of Cologne) and spend about 200€ on a late night taxi to my destination.

bz_bz_bz 4mo ago

I would argue that 4 and 6 are not dark patterns but necessary CYA given they cover two of their most common complaints.

drooopy 4mo ago

The Ryanair website is a who's who of everything you're supposed to avoid in UI/UX design.

jen729w 4mo ago

I just ordered a pizza from Uber Eats here in Taiwan and was offered the option to "Try Uber One". Clicking "Try now" in fact just signs you up for Uber One. So I suppose you are, technically, trying it. For money. Dirty. I'm Australian and I'm sure that wouldn't be legal.

csomar 4mo ago
When I am looking at airbnb I use an Australian VPN to get pricing to work as it should.
marysol5 4mo ago
Uber Taxis has started pushing "Uber Comfort" to the top of the list too, you get a discounted rate that's lower then the standard one. But you have to wait longer, and I assume it signs you up to another premium product. I had "Uber One" for a month then cancelled just before renewal around Christmas. :D
- Tade0 4mo ago
  "wait longer" - the other day I had two drivers cancel on me and the third only accept because he was within line of sight to my location. We talked and turns out the driver can earn as little as 1/3 of the price you paid. I asked if tips are also "taxed" like that and apparently no, so I just left a 100% tip. I'm getting a normal taxi next time.
wolvoleo 4mo ago
And Uber one doesn't really offer much. Even with the discount they are still more expensive than local alternative Glovo and Cabify.

amiga386 4mo ago

Fascinating Aida: Cheap Flights https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAg0lUYHHFc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAg0lUYHHFc After studying the website we decided it was best to pay priority boarding so we'd sit three abreast (three abreast, that's the best) And of course we'd all have luggage, so that's an extra cost And then we paid insurance in case our cases might get lost

debarshri 4mo ago

Ryanair is genuinely a good product. You get what you pay for. The website reflects their corporate attitude, which i think is okay.

Grombobulous 4mo ago
Maybe I am conditioned but I totally agree. I think what makes this kind of stuff not feel like a dark pattern to me is that they are very up-front about this setup being their business model. They are offering a cheap seat which may even be below their cost if you avoid all the add-ons. The consumer who skips all these add-ons feels smart. They feel like someone else is subsidizing their flight. Perhaps we can even call this booking process a game where the customer comes out at the end feeling like they beat the level. If any of you have seen Ryanair’s social media marketing you’ll know exactly what I mean. They make jokes about how cheap they are, like this one: https://www.instagram.com/p/DRWGfNvDryu/ https://www.instagram.com/p/DRWGfNvDryu/
- macintux 4mo ago
  The dark patterns are one thing; the criminal customer service once you're booked, however, seems much harder to game. Stories from this thread mean I'd never fly them (admittedly, I'll probably never have the opportunity): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48502935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48502935
  - marysol5 4mo ago
    But that was this persons mistake, I'm still not sure what a "Travel Authorisation" even is outside of COVID checks. Not checking into a flight, because you wont onto an entirely different website, to complete an entirely different form isn't the airline.... Services for wheelchair are handled by the airport, not the airline, again, I don't see anything in this comment where they sorted out the services that are required prior.
  - basisword 4mo ago
    1. They make the online check-in thing ridiculously clear and it's been like that for at least a decade now. They send multiple emails warning people too. 2. Having utilised wheelchairs at airports you need to go very early. The airports don't have enough staff and they basically have to assign you someone for an hour to get you through security and on to the plane. The times I've done it, it's always airport staff and nothing to do with the airline.

not-kinsale-joe 4mo ago

I find the dark patterns here acceptable because the prices on their flights are so grossly cheap. I can always fly on KLM, British Airways ect

rsynnott 4mo ago

It's amazing; I take maybe five or six Ryanair flights a year, and every single time checkin is worse than the time before. Unfortunately, they're often the only option from Dublin->wherever with reasonable times; unless I want to go at five in the morning or something I am stuck with them.

iamflimflam1 4mo ago
And this the big problem. Normally, competition would take care of this. Someone would come along and offer a better service. Unfortunately there are many instances of no competition - which then leads to abuse.
- macintux 4mo ago
  It's difficult to compete in a highly price-sensitive market with a company that is effectively scamming its customers. Better service doesn't show up on the price comparison page everyone starts out with.

Grombobulous 4mo ago

I want to remind everyone just how bad of a deal travel insurance is. Yes, there are instances where travel insurance makes sense or may be practically a requirement. Health and/or evacuation insurance for foreign travel and/or cruising may be practically a necessity. You don’t want to be paying tens of thousands of dollars when you need a helicopter to take you off your cruise ship to a hospital. But if your primary reason for purchasing insurance is insuring yourself against a trip that has to be skipped or modified last minute, you can probably skip it. The way I insure against these sort of things: - Buying hotel rooms that are not prepaid and refundable up until the day before check-in - Paying attention to airline policies. Sure, my United airlines fare isn’t refundable, but if I cancel the flights I get all the money back in flight credits I can use within 6 months. - Rental cars, same deal as hotels. They’re easy to book with no payment up front. - Use a good travel credit card with its own trip insurance perks (usually not as comprehensive) Do I pay more to book flexible like this? Yeah, but I can also keep my money gaining interest until the day of the trip. And the thing about travel insurance is that you still have to deal with the claims process if you need to use it.

brnt 4mo ago
> Rental cars That's a whole new can of worms though. Their scams can be a lot more expensive, and are usually after the fact (although they'll try them at the pickup counter too). It's one of those things I will specifically always arrange through a third party that covers insurance as well, which is really an insurance against the rental companies scams.
- PxldLtd 4mo ago
  Yeah, I don't think I'm ever getting that €600 back from Hertz Calais. Still bitter about it.
- Grombobulous 4mo ago
  My credit card pretty much covers anything that can go wrong with car insurance, as well as insures the full value of the vehicle. I do realize that this may not be available in countries that properly regulate credit cards so that they don’t create a caste system of rewards card benefits.

mapkkk 4mo ago

Let us not forget that, low cost carriers and full service carriers alike _all_ have artificially lower prices, prices below what it would actually cost to render their services, as the entire commercial aviation industry is subsidized in the form of fuel, tax and other subsidies. At least in the EU. They wouldn't be able to turn a profit even if they squeezed you hard enough.

leni536 4mo ago

And a last, most sneaky one: At checkout if you pay with credit/debit card don't use Ryanair's "guaranteed exhange rate" if the cost of the flight is not in your card's currency (ticket by default, at least two clicks to find and untick it). That's ~6% gap from mid-market exhange rate, the worst cards do better than that.

reddalo 4mo ago
Yeah but that's general advice, you shouldn't also do that with PayPal, or while paying abroad. ALWAYS pay in the local currency, never in your own.
chatmasta 4mo ago
Even Amazon does this. So scummy. This exchange rate trick should be illegal everywhere.
ProllyInfamous 4mo ago
This is like in stocktrading platforms where "best rate" is offered, and is in fact the worst of several options. ---- Can we stop with all this Newspeak, already? Words should flow with the conversationalists, not political spindoctor lexicologists.

eithed 4mo ago

Leaving this here, as I couldn't leave it on authors blogpost: I grew accustomed to these choices, so would navigate through them on autopilot. Once I was quick enough to get "We noticed suspicious activity indicating that you're a bot"; had to retry everything from beginning and hesitate when clicking :)

rsynnott 4mo ago
Ah, yes, but they're onto you; they've started _changing_ it quite regularly.

forgingahead 4mo ago

I understand the frustrations, but...we're all grown adults here right? Who DOESN'T pay for seat selection if you want or need a good one? The insurance item is ridiculous, but...again, for grown adults with families/kids, do you really fly Ryanair?

rsynnott 4mo ago
> but...again, for grown adults with families/kids, do you really fly Ryanair? Every time I'm on a Ryanair flight to Spain, it's very family-heavy. Like, why wouldn't families go on Ryanair? If nothing else, they have a near-monopoly on certain routes.
tim333 4mo ago
As a many times Ryanair user I don't. I get allocated some crappy random seat, enter the plane last and sit somewhere else, often a row to myself.

maxehmookau 4mo ago

Using the Ryanair website makes me feel icky. The whole thing feels like you have to be constantly on guard not to get tricked - and I'm relatively wise to these things. I dread to think how much of their revenue is generated from people buying stuff they don't want or need. I will always pay more to not use Ryanair, given the choice. Unfortunately I don't always have a choice.

aembleton 4mo ago
If its happening often, create some uBO rules to block the worst of it

hzwanip 4mo ago

When is the EU fining these morons?

DimitriBouriez 4mo ago

[dead]

mschuster91 4mo ago

> Don’t rent a car, don’t buy parking, don’t buy a train(?) In Europe, it is pretty common to continue onwards to your actual destination by train!

rsynnott 4mo ago
They will, entertainingly, try to sell you train tickets even if the airport doesn't have a train station. They also send _constant_ emails about car rental (I assume it must be a profit centre for them). Yes, Ryanair, I will definitely want to rent a car for my weekend trip to notoriously-car-friendly _London_.
tim333 4mo ago
But it's usually better to buy the train ticket at the station rather than from Ryanair.
- mschuster91 4mo ago
  Better, yes. More convenient, no. That's why Bookingcom offers to load you with a rental car, train ticket and god knows what else, why Ryanair offers train tickets and why hotels do the same - massively reduced friction.
  - tim333 4mo ago
    Slightly reduced friction but it locks you into whichever service they sell which isn't always the most convenient at airports with multiple travel options.

frictasolver 4mo ago

[flagged]

Toutouxc 4mo ago

I consider myself kind of sensitive to being forced to do stuff, but Ryanair just doesn't seem that bad. Of course, you get a million offers for things you probably don't need, but I genuinely don't feel like they're trying to scam me. It's like ad-supported Spotify or something. Annoying, but not actively trying to vacuum up my credit card.

vachina 4mo ago
Yeah. I fly budget and mid tier all the time, they’re all the same trying to upsell a bazillion services. Just click no/decline/reject all the way, what’s so difficult about it?
- josephcsible 4mo ago
  > Just click no/decline/reject all the way, what’s so difficult about it? Things like this: > Don’t click “Upgrade to Priority & 2 Cabin Bags”. This one is particularly sneaky as it doesn’t have a “No” option, you must dismiss the window.
justsid 4mo ago
“Ad” supported? It’s other people holding the bag for falling for these.
- Toutouxc 4mo ago
  Do we have any numbers for this? Are those people “falling” for it or are they just choosing to buy the upgrades? I’ve paid for good (window!) seats on Ryanair flights, I’ve paid for luggage, I’ve bought a snack from the trolley. It would make sense to me that other people might be paying for other services.
  - justsid 3mo ago
    I assume if the people willingly wanting all these extras were enough, their business wasn’t an exercise in adding as many dark patterns as possible. But you are right, I don’t have direct evidence or numbers, but the behaviour doesn’t track with a company that isn’t trying to exploit its customers.

shark1 4mo ago

They managed to create a business model relying in some sort of "slot machine" where customers buy the ticket to discover later they are "stupid" not noticing some rule hidden in the meticulously engineered dark patterns and, to board now and do not miss the planned trip, they will have to pay an expensive fee. It is still impressive for me they managing to be this good in being nefarious at same time they have to worry about executing the service in such a complex industry. The cherry on top is their social media, successfully bringing humour to alleviate and to make all of this acceptable, as it was just part of a bigger joke.

jrflo 4mo ago

I feel like this is only slightly worse than booking on any other airline. Even the supposedly "good" ones like Delta do a lot of these tricks. No reason not to, it's basically free revenue for them.

RobotToaster 4mo ago

The airline so bad there's an entire song about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPyl2tOaKxM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPyl2tOaKxM

markvdb 4mo ago

About ten years ago, Ryanaiar suffered a booking system malfunction. My ticket was wrongly booked to "John Smith" and apparently sent to an email address "joxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx" due to a flaw in their booking system. I noticed when trying to check in online far in advance. After many hours spent fruitlessly fighting the Ryanair customer disservice desk, I decided to enlist the help of my local ECC [0]. I paid Ryanair a 120€ name change fee and had the ECC claim it back for me. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Consumer_Centres_Network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Consumer_Centres_Netw...

burlistic 4mo ago
Email addressing being recycled is a valid problem and challenge. Many sites use an email address as the main unique ID for customers, yet this email address and the account can expire if not used for a prolonged period, hence being recycled and then re-registered by someone else. It doesn't sound like this caused your issue. But it is a genuine challenge for large companies like Ryanair and for users who might have registered using an old email they no longer own. MFA and getting a reset confirmation via your mobile as an example can help people from resetting the password and logging in to see personal information which isn't theirs. Companies need a way of recycling this accounts and letting people re-register, ideally not having to call a support line.

bux93 4mo ago

If you book Ryanair, and your concentration slips up for a second, you WILL make a mistake and it WILL cost you money and/or inconvenience you. Then you might complain about that, and be met with smarmy, smug, smarter-than-you people who insist that they fly with Ryanair all the time and never pay too much, people who can't read shouldn't be allowed to book flights, etc. etc. It's worth avoiding Ryanair just to avoid that scenario.

basisword 4mo ago
Maybe it's just me but I can't imagine booking a flight and not paying serious attention the whole time and double checking everything. Even with the high-end airlines you don't want to make mistakes. I think a lot of the 'attitude' you see is when people complain publicly about things that are entirely their fault. e.g. "They charged me to print my boarding pass, I didn't know I had to do it digitally" - probably because you ignored the multiple emails they sent you over the last month warning you. Or "my bag was fine on the way over and now they say it's too big" - you never bothered to check the size and got lucky on the way over. All of these types of rules have been in place for decades now and it's always the seem people holding everyone up because they think the rules don't apply to them. The worst experience I've had with booking _ever_ was recently and it wasn't Ryanair. Whizzair rejected my cards (all of them) and then said the only option was a bank transfer. No fucking way am I doing that. Then my partner tried on her app. Every time she went from the payment screen to her banking app to approve the transaction, she'd go back and the entire app had lost state.
cryo32 4mo ago
There is a somewhat weird Ryanair loyalist contingent.

abc123abc123 4mo ago

The ryanair experience is so abysmal, so revolting, that I gladly pay 2x-3x the price with regular state backed carriers, just to avoid ryanair. I feel sad when I think about people who can not afford to do that, and must tolerate being pissed in the face, repeatedly, every time they travel with ryanair. I do hope they disappear from the planet. The planet and the human race would be better off.

cromka 4mo ago

When checking in, Ryanair UI makes you click "I don't want a seat" instead of "I don't want TO CHOOSE a seat" when you want to opt out from paying for one. This should be punishable by law.

cryo32 4mo ago

I refuse to fly Ryanair. Total bastards from end to end. Easyjet are several hundred percent less clowns. Actually anyone else is.

aquir 4mo ago

The whole "digital boarding pass" is a lie. My dad don't have a smartphone so you check in at home and at the airport at the desk they print the boarding pass for you if you checked in. Sorted.

4rt 4mo ago

Another one not mentioned is trying to book a trip for e.g. 3 people, but only one item of hold luggage. You just can't do it, you have to add it later in an amend-booking. Jet2's not quite as bad, its possible but difficult.

tim333 4mo ago

Ryanair isn't that bad hence their ascent from a small airline to Europe's largest. The flights are usually cheap, on time and clicking through the junk only takes five minutes. They do occasionally get you with stupid charges. I think the worst I had was being charged £200 or so because I tried checking in online 1hr55m before takeoff and you were supposed to do it 2 hrs ahead. (2 passengers x £100). Swings and roundabouts.

arch_deluxe 4mo ago

I don’t think the neologism “dark patterns” is necessary or adds any clarity; it’s almost a euphemism. Can’t we just call this “dishonest design”? I would personally find that a lot clearer.

burlistic 4mo ago

Love the blog post and was curious to see what the Ryan air flow and ux patterns looked like these days. I've found that not selecting a seat often works out best for me and my family. Regardless of when I check in. The algorithms for seat selection seem to always auto allocate you and your party together. If you have young kids they are obligated for them to be seated with their parents. Same for people with disabilities I would guess - although I'm not sure if this would be flagged online. This could be sorted at the check-in counter. If your kids are older they are probably quite happy not sitting next to you anyway! For years I've not selected seating and it's worked out well. On our last trip with BA we actually ended up with premium seats with extra leg room. Nine times out of ten we've been all together. Plus if you really want to sit together. People are often happy to swap like for like seats. P.S I tried to post this on the blog comments but kept getting blocked by capture. Saying I need to solve correctly. I tried about five times. Looks to be an issue

mokaytianao 4mo ago

[flagged]

mokaytianao 4mo ago

[dead]