4 ms·

I don't think Americans understand what US used to mean for the rest of the world. America was supposed to be the next step of humanity, a new land stripped fr

by mrtksn 4mo ago

I don't think Americans understand what US used to mean for the rest of the world. America was supposed to be the next step of humanity, a new land stripped from the ills of the old world where you invest or you go to build things, where your past or identity wasn't the primary concern but your dreams your abilities were. It wasn't nationalistic place, it was open to all and pretty much it was the group work of humanity. When aliens arrive, they arrived to US and even if not, they certainly wanted to speak to the US president as the leader of humanity. Unlike Europe it wasn't stuck into petty identity conflicts, unlike Russia or China it was governed by the law and the law would protect you from the sneaky politicians. Unlike Europe, US companies were fair businesses that could protect you the customer from bad things even if America developed European or Asian habits. Why wouldn't you use anything from America? Americans don't understand how transactional they are becoming and that from now on they will need to perform. Like the Tesla boycott, suddenly Tesla had to price their vehicles to match the functionality they provide in order to be able to sell cars again. Currently the US tech tools are better as they were refined for decades with huge resources and user bases, so it is hard to switch away and at this time it's the perception of risk and US no longer being cool are what pushes for the transition but if EU is lucky Trump will invade Greenland and will make people take the inconvenient path and US tech industry will compact into 350M US market. Europeans will have a few years of sub-par tech and then will have good sovereign tech.

hnben 4mo ago
> America was supposed to be the next step of humanity, a new land stripped from the ills of the old wor wat
- noir_lord 4mo ago
  Indeed, hilariously blind to the actual history of the US. They’ve (just like any powerful country) never been good though they do have excellent propaganda.
- AnthonyMouse 4mo ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus
icantevenhold 4mo ago
This kind of sums up my sentiment. All throughout my adult life the US (for all its apparent faults) was to me a shining example of progress and humanity. It was the best large scale implementation of human rights, laws, and democracy. Sure it was far from perfect but “as good as it gets, for now” Became very disillusioned with that image of the US in the last couple of years. Maybe it’s always been like that - but the recent cronyism, the blatant openly displayed corruption and complete disregard for all the values it used to champion really destroyed the good image I had of the US. In years to come they will realise what this loss of image (or “aura” as the kids would say) really means in a very practical and blunt sense.
- j_maffe 4mo ago
  > was to me a shining example of progress and humanity. Which country was the US bombing to the ground at this period you're reminiscing on?
  - mrtksn 4mo ago
    You don't get it, the US government could have been bad or good but that wasn't the concern when it comes to America. America was a separate thing from the folks in Washington, some politicians and might have done very bad things or the military industrial complex might have pushed the politicians to start wars but this wasn't what America stands for. Americans used to be the good guys, even when bombing kindergartens in the Middle East because whoever was responsible for that would have had paid for it in front of the American legal system or American people.
    - j_maffe 4mo ago
      > because whoever was responsible for that would have had paid for it in front of the American legal system or American people That literally never happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_massacre?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_massacre?wprov=sfla1 > By June 17, 2008, six defendants had their cases dropped and a seventh was found not guilty.[5] The only one of the eight charged to face punishment was Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich. On October 3, 2007, the Article 32 hearing investigating officer recommended that charges of murder be dropped and Wuterich be tried for negligent homicide in the deaths of two women and five children.[6] Further charges of assault and manslaughter were ultimately dropped. Wuterich pled guilty to the only remaining charge, one count of negligent dereliction of duty, and was convicted on January 24, 2012.[7][8]
Epa095 4mo ago
This reminds me of a 1995 Norwegian song, freely translated by me and chatgtp: We dreamed of America where the soft wind lives. We dreamed of America where honey flowers grow, where the sky is vast and blue with stars and stripes upon it too. We dreamed of America, but not anymore, no, not anymore. I don't know when people first began dreaming of America. Long before Columbus, people dreamed of America, I think. A place of everlasting flowers where everyone was free and happy, and no one had to take off their hat for anyone unless they wanted to themselves. A smiling paradise where love lasts forever, and old age is beautiful, a place without any smell. In 1945—before that too, but certainly in 1945—I knew what I was going to be when I grew up. I was going to be an *American*. That spring, the first films from the Pacific War arrived, where the Americans stood with bent knees on jungle paths and shot Japanese soldiers with U.S. carbines. The Japanese were ugly, with protruding teeth and protruding ribs, while the Americans were brave, handsome, clean-cut, and immortal. And even if they did die, they died with a courageous smile and said: "Give this letter to my mother; she will understand." While the Japanese died like grubs and worms, and we felt no pity for them. Besides being ugly, they were portrayed as horribly stupid—so stupid that they spoke broken English even when talking to each other. I know that we dreamed of America well into the 1960s. A scentless land beyond the sea, where everyone had cars and white teeth. I don't know exactly when it stopped. But one day in the 1960s, we not only stopped loving America as a god; we began hating America as a fallen god. And nothing falls so heavily, so hard, and so deep as a fallen god who turns out not to be a god at all, but merely America. Then America was blamed not only for the Vietnam War and environmental disasters, but also, for example, for car culture. And the greatest share of the blame fell on the man who discovered America. Now, 487 years after his death, Christopher Columbus is blamed not only for the slave trade from West Africa, but also for the murder of Kennedy, and for all the worlds traffic accidents. Now they say Columbus was a bastard. Because it was he who discovered America in 1492.
surgical_fire 4mo ago
Sometimes I envy the illiterate. At least they cannot read this ridiculous load of propaganda.
- mrtksn 4mo ago
  Don't go too hard on yourself on this, you are doing just fine.
  - surgical_fire 4mo ago
    Given enough time on HN, we will all get there someday.

by mrtksn 4mo ago

hnben 4mo ago

> America was supposed to be the next step of humanity, a new land stripped from the ills of the old wor wat

noir_lord 4mo ago
Indeed, hilariously blind to the actual history of the US. They’ve (just like any powerful country) never been good though they do have excellent propaganda.
AnthonyMouse 4mo ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_New_Colossus

icantevenhold 4mo ago

This kind of sums up my sentiment. All throughout my adult life the US (for all its apparent faults) was to me a shining example of progress and humanity. It was the best large scale implementation of human rights, laws, and democracy. Sure it was far from perfect but “as good as it gets, for now” Became very disillusioned with that image of the US in the last couple of years. Maybe it’s always been like that - but the recent cronyism, the blatant openly displayed corruption and complete disregard for all the values it used to champion really destroyed the good image I had of the US. In years to come they will realise what this loss of image (or “aura” as the kids would say) really means in a very practical and blunt sense.

j_maffe 4mo ago
> was to me a shining example of progress and humanity. Which country was the US bombing to the ground at this period you're reminiscing on?
- mrtksn 4mo ago
  You don't get it, the US government could have been bad or good but that wasn't the concern when it comes to America. America was a separate thing from the folks in Washington, some politicians and might have done very bad things or the military industrial complex might have pushed the politicians to start wars but this wasn't what America stands for. Americans used to be the good guys, even when bombing kindergartens in the Middle East because whoever was responsible for that would have had paid for it in front of the American legal system or American people.
  - j_maffe 4mo ago
    > because whoever was responsible for that would have had paid for it in front of the American legal system or American people That literally never happened. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_massacre?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_massacre?wprov=sfla1 > By June 17, 2008, six defendants had their cases dropped and a seventh was found not guilty.[5] The only one of the eight charged to face punishment was Staff Sergeant Frank Wuterich. On October 3, 2007, the Article 32 hearing investigating officer recommended that charges of murder be dropped and Wuterich be tried for negligent homicide in the deaths of two women and five children.[6] Further charges of assault and manslaughter were ultimately dropped. Wuterich pled guilty to the only remaining charge, one count of negligent dereliction of duty, and was convicted on January 24, 2012.[7][8]

Epa095 4mo ago

This reminds me of a 1995 Norwegian song, freely translated by me and chatgtp: We dreamed of America where the soft wind lives. We dreamed of America where honey flowers grow, where the sky is vast and blue with stars and stripes upon it too. We dreamed of America, but not anymore, no, not anymore. I don't know when people first began dreaming of America. Long before Columbus, people dreamed of America, I think. A place of everlasting flowers where everyone was free and happy, and no one had to take off their hat for anyone unless they wanted to themselves. A smiling paradise where love lasts forever, and old age is beautiful, a place without any smell. In 1945—before that too, but certainly in 1945—I knew what I was going to be when I grew up. I was going to be an *American*. That spring, the first films from the Pacific War arrived, where the Americans stood with bent knees on jungle paths and shot Japanese soldiers with U.S. carbines. The Japanese were ugly, with protruding teeth and protruding ribs, while the Americans were brave, handsome, clean-cut, and immortal. And even if they did die, they died with a courageous smile and said: "Give this letter to my mother; she will understand." While the Japanese died like grubs and worms, and we felt no pity for them. Besides being ugly, they were portrayed as horribly stupid—so stupid that they spoke broken English even when talking to each other. I know that we dreamed of America well into the 1960s. A scentless land beyond the sea, where everyone had cars and white teeth. I don't know exactly when it stopped. But one day in the 1960s, we not only stopped loving America as a god; we began hating America as a fallen god. And nothing falls so heavily, so hard, and so deep as a fallen god who turns out not to be a god at all, but merely America. Then America was blamed not only for the Vietnam War and environmental disasters, but also, for example, for car culture. And the greatest share of the blame fell on the man who discovered America. Now, 487 years after his death, Christopher Columbus is blamed not only for the slave trade from West Africa, but also for the murder of Kennedy, and for all the worlds traffic accidents. Now they say Columbus was a bastard. Because it was he who discovered America in 1492.

surgical_fire 4mo ago

Sometimes I envy the illiterate. At least they cannot read this ridiculous load of propaganda.

mrtksn 4mo ago
Don't go too hard on yourself on this, you are doing just fine.
- surgical_fire 4mo ago
  Given enough time on HN, we will all get there someday.