4 ms·

One understated outcome of Trump 2.0 is waking up some sections of the European intelligentsia to the risk of dependency on the United States. Trump 1.0 should

One understated outcome of Trump 2.0 is waking up some sections of the European intelligentsia to the risk of dependency on the United States. Trump 1.0 should've been enough, but instead European leaders were just too thankful for a Biden back-to-normal scenario that they basically took no action allowing the US to further extend its dominance. Better late than never. Incidentally, trying to build EU tech independence should produce job making industries, so can become a populist move also

Braxton1980 4mo ago
Because Trump has 2.5 years left and they may be hoping a Democrat wins
- usrnm 4mo ago
  Trump was elected. Twice. It was not a fluke, not a once in a lifetime event, he's a symptom of wider processes happening in the US. The world has changed and the old order is not coming back
  - captainbland 4mo ago
    Trump is one thing but the overall dynamic of similar politicians gaining footholds across the world is what worries me. If everyone is X nation first in the same way, you lose the ability to negotiate with compromises, people want to start expanding their borders and that just escalates into war. We're already seeing that in a few cases but it just stands to get worse if this carries on.
  - QuesnayJr 4mo ago
    Half the countries in Europe has their own Trump-equivalent politician heading one of the largest parties, and yet Europeans are imagining it's something happening "in the US" while they sleepwalk into disaster.
    - pjc50 4mo ago
      Yes, and: these are the same picture. They're all promoted by Russian-backed influencers on US-owned social media, or indigenous US racists. We've got Elon inciting race riots in Belfast now; several people left homeless after they were firebombed out. A lot of this was laundered through Hungary: https://www.politico.eu/article/hungary-viktor-orban-favorite-brussels-think-tank-down-not-out-conservative-euroskeptic/ https://www.politico.eu/article/hungary-viktor-orban-favorit... ; hopefully some of those involved can be jailed by the incoming administration for misusing government funds.
    - saulapremium 4mo ago
      I am European and I am all too aware that the trend exists here as well. I am just hoping that a majority will now be able to see what disasters that road can lead to.
  - tiahura 4mo ago
    Mostly it’s a symptom of Democrats nominating the two most unliked people in politics.
    - preg_match 4mo ago
      When the choices are “unlikable person” and “straight up agent of chaos set on destroying the US in every way he can” and you choose the latter, that’s on you. I think people like trump because the idea of burning it all to the ground and starting over sounds nice. It’s a very simple solution to a very complex problem, and dumb people really gravitate towards that. Of course they never really considered what “burn it all down” meant. It meant all, nobody is safe. No business is safe.
      - cindyllm 4mo ago
        [dead]
- graemep 4mo ago
  Does it matter who is president? The US was spying on European leaders before Trump's first term: "According to the investigation, which covered the period from 2012 to 2014, the NSA used Danish information cables to spy on senior officials in Sweden, Norway, France and Germany, including former German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and former German opposition leader Peer Steinbrück." https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spied-merkel-other-top-european-officials-through-danish-2021-05-30/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie...
  - Paradigma11 4mo ago
    Everybody always spies on everybody else. Even it only to check what they are really thinking.
    - graemep 4mo ago
      That is all the more reason for governments not to rely on foreign suppliers.
gib444 4mo ago
> basically took no action allowing the US to further extend its dominance. I love this. Do you think everything is in Europe's control? Do you know anything about the US has operated since WW2? Have you noticed the mismatch in economic and military might between the two regions? And what about all the US military bases in Europe? Do you think it's simply a case of asking them to please leave within 1 year, thanks, goodbye. They've had us in a headlock for a very very long time
- tiahura 4mo ago
  It’s a mismatch we’ve been asking Europe to do something about for 30+ years. Instead, they decided to turn their countries into third world refugee camps.
- hunglee2 4mo ago
  yeah true. Still, the primary problem was lack of consciousness about this state of affairs, especially at leadership level. One thing Trump 2.0 does take off the mask on this. It's a start

Braxton1980 4mo ago

Because Trump has 2.5 years left and they may be hoping a Democrat wins

usrnm 4mo ago
Trump was elected. Twice. It was not a fluke, not a once in a lifetime event, he's a symptom of wider processes happening in the US. The world has changed and the old order is not coming back
- captainbland 4mo ago
  Trump is one thing but the overall dynamic of similar politicians gaining footholds across the world is what worries me. If everyone is X nation first in the same way, you lose the ability to negotiate with compromises, people want to start expanding their borders and that just escalates into war. We're already seeing that in a few cases but it just stands to get worse if this carries on.
- QuesnayJr 4mo ago
  Half the countries in Europe has their own Trump-equivalent politician heading one of the largest parties, and yet Europeans are imagining it's something happening "in the US" while they sleepwalk into disaster.
  - pjc50 4mo ago
    Yes, and: these are the same picture. They're all promoted by Russian-backed influencers on US-owned social media, or indigenous US racists. We've got Elon inciting race riots in Belfast now; several people left homeless after they were firebombed out. A lot of this was laundered through Hungary: https://www.politico.eu/article/hungary-viktor-orban-favorite-brussels-think-tank-down-not-out-conservative-euroskeptic/ https://www.politico.eu/article/hungary-viktor-orban-favorit... ; hopefully some of those involved can be jailed by the incoming administration for misusing government funds.
  - saulapremium 4mo ago
    I am European and I am all too aware that the trend exists here as well. I am just hoping that a majority will now be able to see what disasters that road can lead to.
- tiahura 4mo ago
  Mostly it’s a symptom of Democrats nominating the two most unliked people in politics.
  - preg_match 4mo ago
    When the choices are “unlikable person” and “straight up agent of chaos set on destroying the US in every way he can” and you choose the latter, that’s on you. I think people like trump because the idea of burning it all to the ground and starting over sounds nice. It’s a very simple solution to a very complex problem, and dumb people really gravitate towards that. Of course they never really considered what “burn it all down” meant. It meant all, nobody is safe. No business is safe.
    - cindyllm 4mo ago
      [dead]
graemep 4mo ago
Does it matter who is president? The US was spying on European leaders before Trump's first term: "According to the investigation, which covered the period from 2012 to 2014, the NSA used Danish information cables to spy on senior officials in Sweden, Norway, France and Germany, including former German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier and former German opposition leader Peer Steinbrück." https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spied-merkel-other-top-european-officials-through-danish-2021-05-30/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/us-security-agency-spie...
- Paradigma11 4mo ago
  Everybody always spies on everybody else. Even it only to check what they are really thinking.
  - graemep 4mo ago
    That is all the more reason for governments not to rely on foreign suppliers.

gib444 4mo ago

> basically took no action allowing the US to further extend its dominance. I love this. Do you think everything is in Europe's control? Do you know anything about the US has operated since WW2? Have you noticed the mismatch in economic and military might between the two regions? And what about all the US military bases in Europe? Do you think it's simply a case of asking them to please leave within 1 year, thanks, goodbye. They've had us in a headlock for a very very long time

tiahura 4mo ago
It’s a mismatch we’ve been asking Europe to do something about for 30+ years. Instead, they decided to turn their countries into third world refugee camps.
hunglee2 4mo ago
yeah true. Still, the primary problem was lack of consciousness about this state of affairs, especially at leadership level. One thing Trump 2.0 does take off the mask on this. It's a start