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BYD is bringing its 5-min 'Flash' electric car charging to Canada

131 points by breve 4mo ago

throwatdem12311 4mo ago
Is “flash” the blinding light the car makes when it bursts into flames?
- THX1137 4mo ago
  No, it is a marketing term relating to the chargers BYD is deploying. According to the article the chargers can charge a car with enough electricity to provide a range of 400km in around 5 minutes. Another separate, but important, factor is that these chargers apparently work very well in winter and can provide a similar charging speed at -20°C.
- vel0city 4mo ago
  You must be confused with the Jeep recall where even parked cars just spotaneously catch fire. It's insane to me how so many people bring up the idea of EVs catching fire when ICE vehicles are constantly having recalls for spontaneously catching fire. I've had multiple recalls on multiple ICE cars advising me to not park the car near my house. I haven't with my EV.
  - lukan 4mo ago
    It is almost as if gasoline is not a total safe material either.
    - vel0city 4mo ago
      Its almost like there's some kind of risk in carrying around a pile of easy to use high energy materials, who would have thought.
- dormento 4mo ago
  > throwatdem12311 every time.
blondie9x 4mo ago
Does anyone know if they have looked at how charging quickly impacts the longevity of the battery? Can the cells be damaged by the rapid increase in temperature and current?
- bean469 4mo ago
  I looked, but didn't find anything. Perhaps it's too early to tell?
- Grombobulous 4mo ago
  Even if it did, this type of rapid charging only happens on long road trips. I don’t specifically know for this type of battery but I’ve looked at pretty in-depth analysis of smartphone batteries (way less sophisticated battery management tech) and fast versus slow charging made very little lifespan difference. The best mitigations were fewer cycles and keeping the battery in its sweet spot (not discharging to 0% and charging to 100%)
- verelo 4mo ago
  Probably a bit but here’s the thing: if charging fast is, well….faster…then people care less if they loose a little extra battery because getting it back is less inconvenient. There’s a graph i imagine here where slow charging, you want to retain all capacity. Faster it gets, you tolerate more battery loss.
- bryanlarsen 4mo ago
  Fast charging appears to damage batteries less than expected. There are lots of reports of taxis which almost exclusively used fast charging with over 200,000 miles on their battery. Of course that is normal fast charging. Flash charging is 3x or more faster, so that's unknown.
- Peanuts99 4mo ago
  There's been a lot of study into this already and the forming consensus is that fast DC charging is less of an issue on battery longevity than was first thought. In cars with decent thermal management systems it seems to have a fairly limited effect on battery lifetime as opposed to natural calendar aging.
bean469 4mo ago
> The automaker has built over 5,700 Flash Charging stations in China in about a year, and as we reported earlier today, it is now deploying 2.4 times more charging power per month than Tesla adds to its Supercharger network. Glad to hear this!
gcanyon 4mo ago
As an American, I'm going to be really sad when we miss this transition. Maybe there's still time?
- Grombobulous 4mo ago
  It will happen. My guess is that Canada is BYD’s pilot into the US. They have very similar buyer characteristics and the Canadian tariff deal allows them to enter the market without taking the risks of local factories. It won’t take much to get BYD access to the US. It’s a two-step process: - Toss a million bucks at Trump or wait for a Democratic administration - Build a plant in Alabama/Tennessee/South Carolina/Georgia That’s literally all it takes.
  - galangalalgol 4mo ago
    A million? 100M only gets you an ev advertisement on the Whitehouse lawn. It will need to be something more like Saudi Arabia's investment in ivanka, i mean the affinity group. 25M a year to his son in law gets your phone calls answered when you feel like Iran is acting up too much. I am not as optimistic. If that doesn't happen the only candidate likely to let china do as they wilt is aoc. Vance would happily start ww3 with them. Rubio/newsome/shapiro etc will all keep the full pressure of all allies in them, potentially kicking them out of places they already sell.
    - gpm 4mo ago
      > Rubio/newsome/shapiro etc will all keep the full pressure of all allies in them, potentially kicking them out of places they already sell. I sincerely doubt the US is capable of this. Trump has lit your soft power on fire. Trying to get people to give up a superior and cheaper product is an extremely large ask.
      - bluGill 4mo ago
        The leaders there know that China isn't exactly a friend of liberal western democracy. They have won the current round of propoganda, but that doesn't mean they are anyone's friend either.
close04 4mo ago
This will be a logistical challenge for the grid but absolutely fantastic for BYD owners in particular. > it is now deploying 2.4 times more charging power per month than Tesla adds to its Supercharger network And this is fantastic for EV owners in general, assuming the charging network is open to all. > In short, BYD isn’t just shipping cars to Canada – it’s planning to build and operate its own charging infrastructure They're mastering the "don't build on someone else's foundation" philosophy. Vertical integration is a very powerful tool.
- fundatus 4mo ago
  > This will be a logistical challenge for the grid but absolutely fantastic for BYD owners in particular. Interestingly BYD actually puts batteries next to these chargers that they charge "off peak" to minimise the strain on the grid. So often times cars will actually charge from that battery instead of directly from the grid.
  - stymaar 4mo ago
    > batteries next to these chargers that they charge "off peak" I don't think that's what they'll do. Charging off peak means being able to store the entirety of the energy demand for the power station in a battery, which is going to be very expensive (assuming 20 cars charge during peak hours every day, that'd mean having to swallow the cost of 20 cars worth of battery per charging station. Good luck getting a good ROI with that). Instead I think they'll just use the battery so that they never drain the full power of a charge when a car is charging. Drawing a megawatt of current 5% of the time is putting lots of pressure on the local grid, and it can be mitigated by having a battery with the capacity of a car battery that you charge slowly during the whole day (including during peak hour) and discharge fast when a car is charging (for instance, if in average you have 2 cars charging for 5 minutes every hour, you can draw 166kW continuously instead of having bursts of 1MW consumption).
    - soco 4mo ago
      So do those batteries support fast charging AND fast discharging?
Grombobulous 4mo ago
I read an article recently that said something along the lines of “China is pausing on the idea of a BYD Mexico factory over fears of US stealing their technology.” Isn’t it ironic? Don’t ya think? Update: link to the article I was reading: https://electrek.co/2025/03/19/chinese-authorities-delay-approval-byd-ev-plant-mexico-fears-tech-leaking-us/ https://electrek.co/2025/03/19/chinese-authorities-delay-app...
- dev1ycan 4mo ago
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  - deleted 4mo ago
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- embedding-shape 4mo ago
  > Isn’t it ironic? Don’t ya think? Why is that ironic? The US talks about stealing/preventing others from stealing stuff from them too, not sure why this would be surprising.
  - Grombobulous 4mo ago
    That was the irony, that the US accuses China of stealing IP with the assumption that US IP is superior. Now the tables have turned and China is the country with the superior IP.
    - campbell000 4mo ago
      [dead]
    - embedding-shape 4mo ago
      Both countries have been accusing each other of stealing technologies since forever, nothing here is new. No tables have been turned, unless you've been sleeping under a rock for the last three decades.
madhacker 4mo ago
BYD's America containment policy to make Americans drool with jealousy. America will still be home to boring vanilla EVs that looked like it was stuck in the 2010s. BYD has a better chance of entering US market by offering tribute to Trump & Co over an inflexible protectionist / labor union friendly Democratic party.
christkv 4mo ago
I'm against BYD factories unless car parts shipped from china are not heavily tariffed. You don't want to allow them to ship entire kits from china to final assemble in Europe. You want them to buy from providers in Europe. Otherwise I'm in favor of massive tariffs on their cars to avoid dumping.
- madaxe_again 4mo ago
  That’s the exact model they follow in Brasil - they ship over the car without seats or a steering wheel, install them in Brazil with a Chinese labour force, declare it Brazilian made, pay no tariffs on the parts or the final vehicle. There’s an aspirational goal of at least 50% Brazilian parts, but its currently 0%.
  - christkv 4mo ago
    Ban them. Beyond cars is the fact that somehow its ok to buy unregulated chinese made products following no safety standards of the EU on temu, shein, aliexpress etc allowing them to skip all the costs of producing safe consumer goods in the EU. Ban all of them or put a 1000% tariff on all of the items. To long the EU has been followed the financial interests of German industry and their dealings in China. Since that phase is over we should treat China as the hostile power it is and force cuts to trade. Not a single Euro more in trade in than export to China.
    - cucumber3732842 4mo ago
      The current status quo is that the populace wants these products so badly that current rules that are supposedly about safety simply don't get enforced. A ban would be even less effectve it doesn't come with any of the "good marketing" that safety rules and regulations do so there would be even less political will to support enforcement.
    - ErneX 4mo ago
      How about we compete instead? It’s likely that for them it’s going to be cheaper to manufacture in some Europeans countries than in China soon enough. It’s appalling. And suggesting we will fix things by banning stuff in my opinion is just delaying the inevitable anyway. They are making better vehicles at better prices.
beloch 4mo ago
This is bold considering the uncertainty in the Canadian market right now. For those not familiar with the situation... Before Trump 2.0: ---------------- The auto sectors of Canada, U.S. and Mexico were highly integrated with parts and vehicles crossing the border at scale. There wasn't much EV production and the NA auto sector probably wasn't up to competing with the Chinese auto sector on prices, but there were steep tariffs keeping Chinese vehicles out of NA markets and many foreign ones too. The highly integrated nature of the sector was seen, by most, as a competitive advantage. Trump 2.0: --------- Trump wanted vehicles to be manufactured in the U.S., not Canada or Mexico. Because... reasons. He slapped sectoral tariffs (that violate CUSMA/USMCA/T-MEC) on cars and parts from Mexico and Canada. His desire seems to be to cut Canada and Mexico out of the NA auto supply chain but somehow still force Canada and Mexico to buy only American, while maintaining tariffs on Chinese autos. It's not exactly easy or quick to just pick up an auto plant and move it, nor is it clear that being inside the U.S. tariff wall is better than being outside of it. These tariffs have mostly just caused the NA auto sector to become really uncompetitive right when people are starting to notice that Chinese autos are offering a lot more bang for the buck. Canada responds: --------------- Canada now allows in 49,000 autos to enter the country without facing the former 100% tariff rate. This was in exchange for China lifting tariffs on some Canola products. That's a small fraction of the Canadian auto market, but it's also 49,000 cars that won't be from the U.S. (or Canada). This prompted Trump to suggest that China will not allow Canada to play ice hockey anymore[1]... Hockey aside, this move has sent a message. If Trump does succeed in completely strangling the Canadian auto sector, why would Canada continue to give U.S. autos preferential access to their largest export market? The uncertainty going forward: ----------------------------- Is China's foothold in the Canadian market secure? Is it a bargaining chip that might be traded away, or is it permanent? Are trade talks between Canada, the U.S., and Mexico going to go so poorly that the 49,000 number gets upped significantly? China's response to this door cracking open is, evidently, to ram their foot in as fast as they can. A new EV brand or two would likely not make a huge impact in Canada, but a new rapid charging network might make itself indispensable in very short order. It's not like the U.S. has a response for this. Their main EV brand, Tesla, is poison in Canada because of Musk's links to Trump. [1]https://globalnews.ca/video/11645943/trump-warns-canada-that-china-wont-let-them-play-hockey-anymore https://globalnews.ca/video/11645943/trump-warns-canada-that...
varispeed 4mo ago
So if China attacks Taiwan and NATO intervenes, how Canada will ensure BYD will not remotely brick the charging infrastructure or will not make cars suddenly speed up and crash into oncoming traffic?
- pjc50 4mo ago
  Same question, but for Tesla and the proposed US invasion of Canada. (one of those things which the POTUS says that we're all told shouldn't be taken as serious or real, as if that wasn't a massive disqualification for him)
- mekdoonggi 4mo ago
  From Canada's perspective, China is willing to cooperate even through conflict, and the US is literally threatening to invade.
- jeromegv 4mo ago
  We already have US threatening to invade for absolutely no reason while the American people stand by and keeps arguing about the scandal of the day, I think this argument has sailed for Canadians. The US is now a very unreliable business partner, nothing else. We can get fucked on both sides but will do business with those that don't want to destroy our economy.
- red-iron-pine 4mo ago
  NATO cannot be called in to defend Taiwan. NATO article 6 makes this perfectly clear: "For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack: on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America... [or] on the islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer..." The US may invoke ANZUS or treaties with Japan and SK. If China attacks the US directly, such as attacks on US soil, that might change, but it is highly unlikely that NATO would ever get directly involved.
t1234s 4mo ago
Any long terms Europe BYD owners? How is the build quality of their export vehicles?
- kblazewicz2 4mo ago
  I own a Sealion 7 since August. Build quality is much better than European brands like BMW or Audi, it really feels premium. I'm loving this car.
  - usrnm 4mo ago
    What about the software side?
- pjc50 4mo ago
  Long-term reviews are available: https://driveauthority.com/is-byd-reliable-after-5-years/ https://driveauthority.com/is-byd-reliable-after-5-years/ https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/byd/dolphin-surf/long-term-reviews/surfs-six-months-byd%E2%80%99s-%C2%A318k-citroen-c3-rival https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/byd/dolphin-surf/long-t... https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/byd/atto-3/long-term-reviews/byd-atto-3-2024-long-term-test https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/byd/atto-3/long-term-re... They're now quite popular in the UK, along with Jaecoo, although not a huge number of them are pure-EV. Since I have been in the market for a car recently, I've been carspotting to see what's actually on the roads, and looking out for green-flash plates. VW and Tesla seem to be the carspotting winners so far. Autocar (and other reviewers) are mad about the Renault 5, which does look extremely good. I have an Abarth(!) 600E on lease-order, which I will review for HN eventually. It is very funny that the Seagull had to be renamed Surf because Brits hate seagulls, though.
  - giarc 4mo ago
    Canadians also hate seagulls, so I wonder if they will do the same (although I'm not sure the Seagull was intended to come to Canada).
    - 4mo ago
ck2 4mo ago
There is a huge startup opportunity, steal this idea: US Governement doesn't allow BYD imports BUT you can lease a car from Canada for a year in US So lease BYD a year at a time with Canadian plates, etc. to US drivers
- pjc50 4mo ago
  Some US politicians were proposing a total ban on allowing cars of Chinese origin into the US, which is rather extreme. They don't want to risk US nationals seeing them and wanting them.
  - gedy 4mo ago
    You see them occasionally in southern California with Mexican plates
    - ck2 4mo ago
      There you go, so someone turn that into a frictionless service Every year you just exchange the car/lease/plate whatever Once enough people drive $5000 electric cars they will insist politicians allow them officially Detroit is doomed anyway once 9 out of 10 workers is replaced with "AI" controlled bots
      - ben_w 4mo ago
        > Detroit is doomed anyway once 9 out of 10 workers is replaced with "AI" controlled bots As a non-American, I'd kinda assumed Detroit's car industry was already long-gone. Wasn't its industrial decline the inspiration for a bunch of dystopian films in the 80s and 90s?
  - ck2 4mo ago
    Canadian snowbirds drive their cars and RVs into the US all the time all the way down to the southern states There's just a limit to how long the car can be in the US So lease for a year at a time from Canada Musk himself was an illegal Canadian import so hey only fair lol
ErneX 4mo ago
Also to Europe.
gwbas1c 4mo ago
Anyone know if it's NACS or a proprietary connector?
yabones 4mo ago
Seems like a good plan. Canada has the third largest hydroelectric power production in the world, and quite a bit of nuclear, so let's use it properly. People talk about transmission infrastructure like it's difficult, but we're the ones who made the ~5,000 KM HVDC system that feeds the northern US from James Bay! I don't see why we can't quickly electrify transportation, it's the kind of project Canada seems to be pretty good at. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_%E2%80%93_New_England_Transmission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_%E2%80%93_New_England_T...
- cmrdporcupine 4mo ago
  I mean, this is hiding a lot of geographic reality. You're using the word Canada pretty broadly here, when the reality is that the left-half of the country past Ontario (or arguably Quebec) is pretty shit in this regard. Quebec has that hydroelectric power production. And their power grid is cheap and pretty clean. And their government and populace is highly pro-EV and yeah, it's great. Ontario a bit second to that but reliant on nuclear, and those nuclear plants will be going offline for maintenance and its ... a whole thing. Under Doug Ford we just keep increasing the amount of natural gas in the mix and the prices keep going up on electricity. (This being the guy who lied his way into power claiming that under the Ontario Liberals we had "the most expensive power in North America" [again a total lie]) The rest of the country? Oof. Have you looked at the prairie provinces power generation?
  - maximilianburke 4mo ago
    But if you keep looking past the prairies you’ll find another province, one that also has invested heavily in hydroelectric power.
    - tonyarkles 4mo ago
      That's the thing about SK... we do actually have a pretty significant hydro investment. Problem is that the untapped hydro resources are quite remote. We can't really extract a whole lot more energy out of the South Saskatchewan River without causing upstream and downstream problems. My own research and modelling basically showed... if we're going to remain energy independent (i.e. the ability for SaskPower to power the entire province without net imports), including riding out the worst scenario (cold, dark, and calm in the winter) for a week while moving towards minimum carbon, it's going to pretty much need to be a strong mix of nuclear, solar, wind, and natural gas peakers. We keep the existing hydro capacity because it's great, but there isn't much more to be had. Where it gets really gnarly is looking at also eliminating SaskEnergy and transitioning residential and commercial heating and cooling to electric (e.g. heat pumps) is going to require at least 3x the nuclear buildout that we've got planned PLUS significant energy retrofits to every house. Trying to move to electric-only HVAC without energy retrotifts adds like another 33% nuclear capacity requirements (+ additional solar and wind of course) and it starts to get financially infeasible.
LaSombra 4mo ago
This might be the move that cements BYD in western markets.

131 points by breve 4mo ago

throwatdem12311 4mo ago

Is “flash” the blinding light the car makes when it bursts into flames?

THX1137 4mo ago
No, it is a marketing term relating to the chargers BYD is deploying. According to the article the chargers can charge a car with enough electricity to provide a range of 400km in around 5 minutes. Another separate, but important, factor is that these chargers apparently work very well in winter and can provide a similar charging speed at -20°C.
vel0city 4mo ago
You must be confused with the Jeep recall where even parked cars just spotaneously catch fire. It's insane to me how so many people bring up the idea of EVs catching fire when ICE vehicles are constantly having recalls for spontaneously catching fire. I've had multiple recalls on multiple ICE cars advising me to not park the car near my house. I haven't with my EV.
- lukan 4mo ago
  It is almost as if gasoline is not a total safe material either.
  - vel0city 4mo ago
    Its almost like there's some kind of risk in carrying around a pile of easy to use high energy materials, who would have thought.
dormento 4mo ago
> throwatdem12311 every time.

blondie9x 4mo ago

Does anyone know if they have looked at how charging quickly impacts the longevity of the battery? Can the cells be damaged by the rapid increase in temperature and current?

bean469 4mo ago
I looked, but didn't find anything. Perhaps it's too early to tell?
Grombobulous 4mo ago
Even if it did, this type of rapid charging only happens on long road trips. I don’t specifically know for this type of battery but I’ve looked at pretty in-depth analysis of smartphone batteries (way less sophisticated battery management tech) and fast versus slow charging made very little lifespan difference. The best mitigations were fewer cycles and keeping the battery in its sweet spot (not discharging to 0% and charging to 100%)
verelo 4mo ago
Probably a bit but here’s the thing: if charging fast is, well….faster…then people care less if they loose a little extra battery because getting it back is less inconvenient. There’s a graph i imagine here where slow charging, you want to retain all capacity. Faster it gets, you tolerate more battery loss.
bryanlarsen 4mo ago
Fast charging appears to damage batteries less than expected. There are lots of reports of taxis which almost exclusively used fast charging with over 200,000 miles on their battery. Of course that is normal fast charging. Flash charging is 3x or more faster, so that's unknown.
Peanuts99 4mo ago
There's been a lot of study into this already and the forming consensus is that fast DC charging is less of an issue on battery longevity than was first thought. In cars with decent thermal management systems it seems to have a fairly limited effect on battery lifetime as opposed to natural calendar aging.

bean469 4mo ago

> The automaker has built over 5,700 Flash Charging stations in China in about a year, and as we reported earlier today, it is now deploying 2.4 times more charging power per month than Tesla adds to its Supercharger network. Glad to hear this!

gcanyon 4mo ago

As an American, I'm going to be really sad when we miss this transition. Maybe there's still time?

Grombobulous 4mo ago
It will happen. My guess is that Canada is BYD’s pilot into the US. They have very similar buyer characteristics and the Canadian tariff deal allows them to enter the market without taking the risks of local factories. It won’t take much to get BYD access to the US. It’s a two-step process: - Toss a million bucks at Trump or wait for a Democratic administration - Build a plant in Alabama/Tennessee/South Carolina/Georgia That’s literally all it takes.
- galangalalgol 4mo ago
  A million? 100M only gets you an ev advertisement on the Whitehouse lawn. It will need to be something more like Saudi Arabia's investment in ivanka, i mean the affinity group. 25M a year to his son in law gets your phone calls answered when you feel like Iran is acting up too much. I am not as optimistic. If that doesn't happen the only candidate likely to let china do as they wilt is aoc. Vance would happily start ww3 with them. Rubio/newsome/shapiro etc will all keep the full pressure of all allies in them, potentially kicking them out of places they already sell.
  - gpm 4mo ago
    > Rubio/newsome/shapiro etc will all keep the full pressure of all allies in them, potentially kicking them out of places they already sell. I sincerely doubt the US is capable of this. Trump has lit your soft power on fire. Trying to get people to give up a superior and cheaper product is an extremely large ask.
    - bluGill 4mo ago
      The leaders there know that China isn't exactly a friend of liberal western democracy. They have won the current round of propoganda, but that doesn't mean they are anyone's friend either.

close04 4mo ago

This will be a logistical challenge for the grid but absolutely fantastic for BYD owners in particular. > it is now deploying 2.4 times more charging power per month than Tesla adds to its Supercharger network And this is fantastic for EV owners in general, assuming the charging network is open to all. > In short, BYD isn’t just shipping cars to Canada – it’s planning to build and operate its own charging infrastructure They're mastering the "don't build on someone else's foundation" philosophy. Vertical integration is a very powerful tool.

fundatus 4mo ago
> This will be a logistical challenge for the grid but absolutely fantastic for BYD owners in particular. Interestingly BYD actually puts batteries next to these chargers that they charge "off peak" to minimise the strain on the grid. So often times cars will actually charge from that battery instead of directly from the grid.
- stymaar 4mo ago
  > batteries next to these chargers that they charge "off peak" I don't think that's what they'll do. Charging off peak means being able to store the entirety of the energy demand for the power station in a battery, which is going to be very expensive (assuming 20 cars charge during peak hours every day, that'd mean having to swallow the cost of 20 cars worth of battery per charging station. Good luck getting a good ROI with that). Instead I think they'll just use the battery so that they never drain the full power of a charge when a car is charging. Drawing a megawatt of current 5% of the time is putting lots of pressure on the local grid, and it can be mitigated by having a battery with the capacity of a car battery that you charge slowly during the whole day (including during peak hour) and discharge fast when a car is charging (for instance, if in average you have 2 cars charging for 5 minutes every hour, you can draw 166kW continuously instead of having bursts of 1MW consumption).
  - soco 4mo ago
    So do those batteries support fast charging AND fast discharging?

Grombobulous 4mo ago

I read an article recently that said something along the lines of “China is pausing on the idea of a BYD Mexico factory over fears of US stealing their technology.” Isn’t it ironic? Don’t ya think? Update: link to the article I was reading: https://electrek.co/2025/03/19/chinese-authorities-delay-approval-byd-ev-plant-mexico-fears-tech-leaking-us/ https://electrek.co/2025/03/19/chinese-authorities-delay-app...

dev1ycan 4mo ago
[flagged]
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
embedding-shape 4mo ago
> Isn’t it ironic? Don’t ya think? Why is that ironic? The US talks about stealing/preventing others from stealing stuff from them too, not sure why this would be surprising.
- Grombobulous 4mo ago
  That was the irony, that the US accuses China of stealing IP with the assumption that US IP is superior. Now the tables have turned and China is the country with the superior IP.
  - campbell000 4mo ago
    [dead]
  - embedding-shape 4mo ago
    Both countries have been accusing each other of stealing technologies since forever, nothing here is new. No tables have been turned, unless you've been sleeping under a rock for the last three decades.

madhacker 4mo ago

BYD's America containment policy to make Americans drool with jealousy. America will still be home to boring vanilla EVs that looked like it was stuck in the 2010s. BYD has a better chance of entering US market by offering tribute to Trump & Co over an inflexible protectionist / labor union friendly Democratic party.

christkv 4mo ago

I'm against BYD factories unless car parts shipped from china are not heavily tariffed. You don't want to allow them to ship entire kits from china to final assemble in Europe. You want them to buy from providers in Europe. Otherwise I'm in favor of massive tariffs on their cars to avoid dumping.

madaxe_again 4mo ago
That’s the exact model they follow in Brasil - they ship over the car without seats or a steering wheel, install them in Brazil with a Chinese labour force, declare it Brazilian made, pay no tariffs on the parts or the final vehicle. There’s an aspirational goal of at least 50% Brazilian parts, but its currently 0%.
- christkv 4mo ago
  Ban them. Beyond cars is the fact that somehow its ok to buy unregulated chinese made products following no safety standards of the EU on temu, shein, aliexpress etc allowing them to skip all the costs of producing safe consumer goods in the EU. Ban all of them or put a 1000% tariff on all of the items. To long the EU has been followed the financial interests of German industry and their dealings in China. Since that phase is over we should treat China as the hostile power it is and force cuts to trade. Not a single Euro more in trade in than export to China.
  - cucumber3732842 4mo ago
    The current status quo is that the populace wants these products so badly that current rules that are supposedly about safety simply don't get enforced. A ban would be even less effectve it doesn't come with any of the "good marketing" that safety rules and regulations do so there would be even less political will to support enforcement.
  - ErneX 4mo ago
    How about we compete instead? It’s likely that for them it’s going to be cheaper to manufacture in some Europeans countries than in China soon enough. It’s appalling. And suggesting we will fix things by banning stuff in my opinion is just delaying the inevitable anyway. They are making better vehicles at better prices.

beloch 4mo ago

This is bold considering the uncertainty in the Canadian market right now. For those not familiar with the situation... Before Trump 2.0: ---------------- The auto sectors of Canada, U.S. and Mexico were highly integrated with parts and vehicles crossing the border at scale. There wasn't much EV production and the NA auto sector probably wasn't up to competing with the Chinese auto sector on prices, but there were steep tariffs keeping Chinese vehicles out of NA markets and many foreign ones too. The highly integrated nature of the sector was seen, by most, as a competitive advantage. Trump 2.0: --------- Trump wanted vehicles to be manufactured in the U.S., not Canada or Mexico. Because... reasons. He slapped sectoral tariffs (that violate CUSMA/USMCA/T-MEC) on cars and parts from Mexico and Canada. His desire seems to be to cut Canada and Mexico out of the NA auto supply chain but somehow still force Canada and Mexico to buy only American, while maintaining tariffs on Chinese autos. It's not exactly easy or quick to just pick up an auto plant and move it, nor is it clear that being inside the U.S. tariff wall is better than being outside of it. These tariffs have mostly just caused the NA auto sector to become really uncompetitive right when people are starting to notice that Chinese autos are offering a lot more bang for the buck. Canada responds: --------------- Canada now allows in 49,000 autos to enter the country without facing the former 100% tariff rate. This was in exchange for China lifting tariffs on some Canola products. That's a small fraction of the Canadian auto market, but it's also 49,000 cars that won't be from the U.S. (or Canada). This prompted Trump to suggest that China will not allow Canada to play ice hockey anymore[1]... Hockey aside, this move has sent a message. If Trump does succeed in completely strangling the Canadian auto sector, why would Canada continue to give U.S. autos preferential access to their largest export market? The uncertainty going forward: ----------------------------- Is China's foothold in the Canadian market secure? Is it a bargaining chip that might be traded away, or is it permanent? Are trade talks between Canada, the U.S., and Mexico going to go so poorly that the 49,000 number gets upped significantly? China's response to this door cracking open is, evidently, to ram their foot in as fast as they can. A new EV brand or two would likely not make a huge impact in Canada, but a new rapid charging network might make itself indispensable in very short order. It's not like the U.S. has a response for this. Their main EV brand, Tesla, is poison in Canada because of Musk's links to Trump. [1]https://globalnews.ca/video/11645943/trump-warns-canada-that-china-wont-let-them-play-hockey-anymore https://globalnews.ca/video/11645943/trump-warns-canada-that...

varispeed 4mo ago

So if China attacks Taiwan and NATO intervenes, how Canada will ensure BYD will not remotely brick the charging infrastructure or will not make cars suddenly speed up and crash into oncoming traffic?

pjc50 4mo ago
Same question, but for Tesla and the proposed US invasion of Canada. (one of those things which the POTUS says that we're all told shouldn't be taken as serious or real, as if that wasn't a massive disqualification for him)
mekdoonggi 4mo ago
From Canada's perspective, China is willing to cooperate even through conflict, and the US is literally threatening to invade.
jeromegv 4mo ago
We already have US threatening to invade for absolutely no reason while the American people stand by and keeps arguing about the scandal of the day, I think this argument has sailed for Canadians. The US is now a very unreliable business partner, nothing else. We can get fucked on both sides but will do business with those that don't want to destroy our economy.
red-iron-pine 4mo ago
NATO cannot be called in to defend Taiwan. NATO article 6 makes this perfectly clear: "For the purpose of Article 5, an armed attack on one or more of the Parties is deemed to include an armed attack: on the territory of any of the Parties in Europe or North America... [or] on the islands under the jurisdiction of any of the Parties in the North Atlantic area north of the Tropic of Cancer..." The US may invoke ANZUS or treaties with Japan and SK. If China attacks the US directly, such as attacks on US soil, that might change, but it is highly unlikely that NATO would ever get directly involved.

t1234s 4mo ago

Any long terms Europe BYD owners? How is the build quality of their export vehicles?

kblazewicz2 4mo ago
I own a Sealion 7 since August. Build quality is much better than European brands like BMW or Audi, it really feels premium. I'm loving this car.
- usrnm 4mo ago
  What about the software side?
pjc50 4mo ago
Long-term reviews are available: https://driveauthority.com/is-byd-reliable-after-5-years/ https://driveauthority.com/is-byd-reliable-after-5-years/ https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/byd/dolphin-surf/long-term-reviews/surfs-six-months-byd%E2%80%99s-%C2%A318k-citroen-c3-rival https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/byd/dolphin-surf/long-t... https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/byd/atto-3/long-term-reviews/byd-atto-3-2024-long-term-test https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/byd/atto-3/long-term-re... They're now quite popular in the UK, along with Jaecoo, although not a huge number of them are pure-EV. Since I have been in the market for a car recently, I've been carspotting to see what's actually on the roads, and looking out for green-flash plates. VW and Tesla seem to be the carspotting winners so far. Autocar (and other reviewers) are mad about the Renault 5, which does look extremely good. I have an Abarth(!) 600E on lease-order, which I will review for HN eventually. It is very funny that the Seagull had to be renamed Surf because Brits hate seagulls, though.
- giarc 4mo ago
  Canadians also hate seagulls, so I wonder if they will do the same (although I'm not sure the Seagull was intended to come to Canada).
  - 4mo ago

ck2 4mo ago

There is a huge startup opportunity, steal this idea: US Governement doesn't allow BYD imports BUT you can lease a car from Canada for a year in US So lease BYD a year at a time with Canadian plates, etc. to US drivers

pjc50 4mo ago
Some US politicians were proposing a total ban on allowing cars of Chinese origin into the US, which is rather extreme. They don't want to risk US nationals seeing them and wanting them.
- gedy 4mo ago
  You see them occasionally in southern California with Mexican plates
  - ck2 4mo ago
    There you go, so someone turn that into a frictionless service Every year you just exchange the car/lease/plate whatever Once enough people drive $5000 electric cars they will insist politicians allow them officially Detroit is doomed anyway once 9 out of 10 workers is replaced with "AI" controlled bots
    - ben_w 4mo ago
      > Detroit is doomed anyway once 9 out of 10 workers is replaced with "AI" controlled bots As a non-American, I'd kinda assumed Detroit's car industry was already long-gone. Wasn't its industrial decline the inspiration for a bunch of dystopian films in the 80s and 90s?
- ck2 4mo ago
  Canadian snowbirds drive their cars and RVs into the US all the time all the way down to the southern states There's just a limit to how long the car can be in the US So lease for a year at a time from Canada Musk himself was an illegal Canadian import so hey only fair lol

ErneX 4mo ago

Also to Europe.

gwbas1c 4mo ago

Anyone know if it's NACS or a proprietary connector?

yabones 4mo ago

Seems like a good plan. Canada has the third largest hydroelectric power production in the world, and quite a bit of nuclear, so let's use it properly. People talk about transmission infrastructure like it's difficult, but we're the ones who made the ~5,000 KM HVDC system that feeds the northern US from James Bay! I don't see why we can't quickly electrify transportation, it's the kind of project Canada seems to be pretty good at. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_%E2%80%93_New_England_Transmission https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_%E2%80%93_New_England_T...

cmrdporcupine 4mo ago
I mean, this is hiding a lot of geographic reality. You're using the word Canada pretty broadly here, when the reality is that the left-half of the country past Ontario (or arguably Quebec) is pretty shit in this regard. Quebec has that hydroelectric power production. And their power grid is cheap and pretty clean. And their government and populace is highly pro-EV and yeah, it's great. Ontario a bit second to that but reliant on nuclear, and those nuclear plants will be going offline for maintenance and its ... a whole thing. Under Doug Ford we just keep increasing the amount of natural gas in the mix and the prices keep going up on electricity. (This being the guy who lied his way into power claiming that under the Ontario Liberals we had "the most expensive power in North America" [again a total lie]) The rest of the country? Oof. Have you looked at the prairie provinces power generation?
- maximilianburke 4mo ago
  But if you keep looking past the prairies you’ll find another province, one that also has invested heavily in hydroelectric power.
  - tonyarkles 4mo ago
    That's the thing about SK... we do actually have a pretty significant hydro investment. Problem is that the untapped hydro resources are quite remote. We can't really extract a whole lot more energy out of the South Saskatchewan River without causing upstream and downstream problems. My own research and modelling basically showed... if we're going to remain energy independent (i.e. the ability for SaskPower to power the entire province without net imports), including riding out the worst scenario (cold, dark, and calm in the winter) for a week while moving towards minimum carbon, it's going to pretty much need to be a strong mix of nuclear, solar, wind, and natural gas peakers. We keep the existing hydro capacity because it's great, but there isn't much more to be had. Where it gets really gnarly is looking at also eliminating SaskEnergy and transitioning residential and commercial heating and cooling to electric (e.g. heat pumps) is going to require at least 3x the nuclear buildout that we've got planned PLUS significant energy retrofits to every house. Trying to move to electric-only HVAC without energy retrotifts adds like another 33% nuclear capacity requirements (+ additional solar and wind of course) and it starts to get financially infeasible.

LaSombra 4mo ago

This might be the move that cements BYD in western markets.