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Never become dependent on doing hideously complicated things. You will eventually struggle to choose to do something more efficient, as the european auto indust

by eptcyka 4mo ago

Never become dependent on doing hideously complicated things. You will eventually struggle to choose to do something more efficient, as the european auto industry is currently displaying. The car where thid motor will be used will, given current market sentiment, be a massive flop. Here they are showing off how complex the manufacturing process is. Surely we’d all be better off with simpler and cheaper processes.

gman83 4mo ago
China is working on the same type of engine: https://interestingengineering.com/ai-robotics/chinese-axial-flux-motor-milestone https://interestingengineering.com/ai-robotics/chinese-axial...
- eptcyka 4mo ago
  Ye, and I’d wager China will put that motor into affordable vehicles first, not some BS AMG GT 4 door/4 seat hyper car.
  - epolanski 4mo ago
    Mercedes always brings their latest technologies to the highest tier of cars first. Almost every major innovation has first debuted on the S class
epolanski 4mo ago
> Never become dependent on doing hideously complicated things Is Mercedes stupid? How did Carl Benz dare to do something as hideously complicated as building the first gasoline-powered car in history? And why did they kept inventing complicated stuff that ended in all modern cars like ABS, adaptive cruise control, direct fuel injection, emergency brake assist, etc, etc?
- eptcyka 4mo ago
  Not all of those inventions are bad. But not all of them are coming from a place of necessity. All of them do increase complexity. My gripe with Mercedes is not that they are constantly pushing boundaries on what can be done with more tech. My main gripe is that the EVs they are building are essentially as complex as the ICE cars and follow largely the same design principles as the ICE cars. For instance, in the EQS, instead of applying engine breaking when the driver takes their foot off the pedal, they went to great lengths to _move the break pedal_ in proportion to the amount of engine breaking that is currently being applied as per the VCUs command. And yet the door cards on the EQS are not up to the standard of an S class. My main gripe with MB is that they have this new technology that could simplify things and let them build a better product. Instead of building around it, they shove it in to their existing designs. I was expecting an electric S class to be more akin to a Lucid Air sans the teething problems of a new company. Instead, we get weak attempts at solving non issues. And whilst they are certainly not in the market of producing affordable vehicles, I would hope that using EV tech they could create a better version of their existing fleet. I do not think anyone buying an A class cares about the 4 popper under the hood - losing it and simplifying radically, in my mind at least, would give them more budget and leeway to create a more compelling product.
  - manarth 4mo ago
    > "instead of applying engine breaking when the driver takes their foot off the pedal, they went to great lengths to _move the break pedal_ in proportion to the amount of engine breaking that is currently being applied as per the VCUs command" Regenerative braking slows the car more aggressively than an ICE where you take your foot of the gas, so the pedal change isn't putting on the brakes, it's communicating to a driver used to ICE that the car is slowing more than might be expected. There may also be a sports-related reason for people who habitually left-foot brake.
    - eptcyka 4mo ago
      You clearly have never used a car like that. You develop muscle memory for where the pedal is - finding that the pedal is not where it used to be does not inspire much confidence. Every other manufacturer has managed to control regen breaking via throttle modulation - even ICE hybrid cars have been doing that for ages.
- KingOfCoders 4mo ago
  And why had that cars be to be refueled in pharmacies? https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Wiesloch_Stadtapotheke_Erste_Tankstelle_20100620.jpg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Wiesloch_Stadtapotheke_E...
IshKebab 4mo ago
He says, typing on one of the most hideously complicated things humanity has created.
vrganj 4mo ago
By that logic we should all just be writing assembly manually. Screw hideously complicated higher level languages. Screw LLMs in particular, so complicated!
citrin_ru 4mo ago
A typical modern car is already hideously complicated and a different type of motor would not change this. What is the current market sentiment? Share of EVs is slowly rising so having a good motor as important as ever.
rcxdude 4mo ago
Efficiency and cost savings at scale usually involve an increase in complexity: in mass manufacturing, complexity is generally a fixed cost and so can be amortized over larger volumes.
rswail 4mo ago
This entire product is easier to build than the existing technology, has more simple tooling and will be simpler and cheaper. Designing the manufacturing machinery is exactly what happens in any manufacturing process. Those robots are general purpose that have been adapted for the required tasks, that's a normal process. Why would you build a motor that's twice as heavy with copper and much wider when you don't need to?

by eptcyka 4mo ago

gman83 4mo ago

China is working on the same type of engine: https://interestingengineering.com/ai-robotics/chinese-axial-flux-motor-milestone https://interestingengineering.com/ai-robotics/chinese-axial...

eptcyka 4mo ago
Ye, and I’d wager China will put that motor into affordable vehicles first, not some BS AMG GT 4 door/4 seat hyper car.
- epolanski 4mo ago
  Mercedes always brings their latest technologies to the highest tier of cars first. Almost every major innovation has first debuted on the S class

epolanski 4mo ago

> Never become dependent on doing hideously complicated things Is Mercedes stupid? How did Carl Benz dare to do something as hideously complicated as building the first gasoline-powered car in history? And why did they kept inventing complicated stuff that ended in all modern cars like ABS, adaptive cruise control, direct fuel injection, emergency brake assist, etc, etc?

eptcyka 4mo ago
Not all of those inventions are bad. But not all of them are coming from a place of necessity. All of them do increase complexity. My gripe with Mercedes is not that they are constantly pushing boundaries on what can be done with more tech. My main gripe is that the EVs they are building are essentially as complex as the ICE cars and follow largely the same design principles as the ICE cars. For instance, in the EQS, instead of applying engine breaking when the driver takes their foot off the pedal, they went to great lengths to _move the break pedal_ in proportion to the amount of engine breaking that is currently being applied as per the VCUs command. And yet the door cards on the EQS are not up to the standard of an S class. My main gripe with MB is that they have this new technology that could simplify things and let them build a better product. Instead of building around it, they shove it in to their existing designs. I was expecting an electric S class to be more akin to a Lucid Air sans the teething problems of a new company. Instead, we get weak attempts at solving non issues. And whilst they are certainly not in the market of producing affordable vehicles, I would hope that using EV tech they could create a better version of their existing fleet. I do not think anyone buying an A class cares about the 4 popper under the hood - losing it and simplifying radically, in my mind at least, would give them more budget and leeway to create a more compelling product.
- manarth 4mo ago
  > "instead of applying engine breaking when the driver takes their foot off the pedal, they went to great lengths to _move the break pedal_ in proportion to the amount of engine breaking that is currently being applied as per the VCUs command" Regenerative braking slows the car more aggressively than an ICE where you take your foot of the gas, so the pedal change isn't putting on the brakes, it's communicating to a driver used to ICE that the car is slowing more than might be expected. There may also be a sports-related reason for people who habitually left-foot brake.
  - eptcyka 4mo ago
    You clearly have never used a car like that. You develop muscle memory for where the pedal is - finding that the pedal is not where it used to be does not inspire much confidence. Every other manufacturer has managed to control regen breaking via throttle modulation - even ICE hybrid cars have been doing that for ages.
KingOfCoders 4mo ago
And why had that cars be to be refueled in pharmacies? https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Wiesloch_Stadtapotheke_Erste_Tankstelle_20100620.jpg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Wiesloch_Stadtapotheke_E...

IshKebab 4mo ago

He says, typing on one of the most hideously complicated things humanity has created.

vrganj 4mo ago

By that logic we should all just be writing assembly manually. Screw hideously complicated higher level languages. Screw LLMs in particular, so complicated!

citrin_ru 4mo ago

A typical modern car is already hideously complicated and a different type of motor would not change this. What is the current market sentiment? Share of EVs is slowly rising so having a good motor as important as ever.

rcxdude 4mo ago

Efficiency and cost savings at scale usually involve an increase in complexity: in mass manufacturing, complexity is generally a fixed cost and so can be amortized over larger volumes.

rswail 4mo ago

This entire product is easier to build than the existing technology, has more simple tooling and will be simpler and cheaper. Designing the manufacturing machinery is exactly what happens in any manufacturing process. Those robots are general purpose that have been adapted for the required tasks, that's a normal process. Why would you build a motor that's twice as heavy with copper and much wider when you don't need to?