6 ms·

I'm really curious if the people funding these projects have a good idea what they're going to get. I know that creative and inspired teams can do great things

I'm really curious if the people funding these projects have a good idea what they're going to get. I know that creative and inspired teams can do great things but ... for example Wasteland asked for $900k which is barely a budget for a SNES game. What I assume people expect though is a Fallout 3 level game. I'm guessing Fallout 3 cost $10-15 million to make. I don't know what the original Lucas adventure games costs to make in the early 90s. Double Fine asked for $1mill? I suspect that's close to what those original games cost. Things have changed. I'd argue it would be challenging to make those same games but at today's expected quality for the same price. Of course I hope they all do great and the games all rock and there's certainly plenty of smaller awesome games to be made. FTL for example. But, for certain games, sequels, or games that are supposed to be very inspired by older games there are expectations I think the developers will have a hard time meeting.

mattchew 14y ago
I backed Wasteland 2, and if I see voice acting with lip-synced animations I'll be disappointed at the waste of resources. Like the other guy said, I'm expecting a play experience similar to Fallout 1/2. However, if I end up getting nothing, that's OK. Backing a project on Kickstarter is a gamble. This is obvious to me but the rest of the world doesn't seem to get it. I can only hope that people adjust their expectations a little after a few spectacular splats, rather than, say, throwing around lawsuits and ruining the whole idea for everyone.
rrreese 14y ago
I backed Wasteland, and I'm expecting a game similar to Fallout 2 with modern graphics and probably little to no voice acting. They're using unity so they making big savings right away, but are constrained with what that engine can do. And that's fine. I think most people who backed it want a game that's true to its roots rather then has the latest graphics etc. Finally Kickstarter doesn't preclude additional funding sources. $900k might have gotten them half way there with the assumption that they can get additional sources of funding after that point. bear in mind that they will be getting sales to people other then current backers after they release. I think the key thing though is that a small focused team, using an engine like Unity can get a lot done, and the constraints will be excepted by a community who is far more interested in a classic RPG then the latest graphics.
- greggman 14y ago
  Engines are great but engines don't make games, people do. Mostly artist and designers. A typical AAA game is 80% non engineers. Lots of AAA teams use existing engines like Unreal. It still takes them teams of 70 to 200 people a couple of years to make all that content. My point is Unity may br great but it's not really the solving the harder issue in games, Asset Creation As for expectations you might be right. Time will tell.
ergo14 14y ago
Actually I think that people pledging there know exactly what they will get. Especially if you bring FO3 and a SNES game into the discussion - then I'm affraid that Fallout 3 has less depth than many SNES games. As I have personally pledged to some projects there I can tell you what I'm expecting from the projects. I want them to deliver good gameplay - and good gameplay equals good ideas - not great AAA visuals - and those cost a lot. I've also backed Elite:Dangerous - they wanted 1.25kk pounds - a massive amount of money - Have you seen what did they manage to do with Frontier First Encounters? Check how many people worked on it, I estimate that given realistic expectation of what we might get - we can have massive value for our money out of kickstarter.
- rrreese 14y ago
  Which SNES games have more depth then FO3? I understand a lot of people where disappointed with FO3 but this is a genuine question.
  - ergo14 14y ago
    Final fantasy, chrono trigger... any rpg basicly. Fallout 3 was a very bad game and was really dumbed down - New Vegas was way better. Hell... Another World (one of better games of all-time) was on SNES - and it cost the fraction of what Wasteland raised. Fallout 3 is just a shadow of the glory of previous games. One good example of an RPG made with a "modern engine" that would give a lot of freedom to the player would be Vampire:Bloodlines - although it had a fair share of bugs - it's one of best examples on how a great gameplay and story can be.
    - danso 14y ago
      Er...not sure if your definition of depth is the same as the commenter's...knows Square games may have been better games...but they were pretty linear with nlittle room for any deviation from the script or any real tactical challenge
      - ergo14 14y ago
kayoone 14y ago
As long as everybody doesnt develop its own engine and tech i think alot of stuff has changed today that makes game development cheaper. There are alot of good engines (Unity3D for example) that can get you going pretty quickly and still have a mighty set of features and possibilities.
tmh88j 14y ago
>for example Wasteland asked for $900k which is barely a budget for a SNES game >the original Lucas adventure games costs to make in the early 90s. Double Fine asked for $1mill I'm just curious, why are you comparing game development 20 years ago to current day standards? Is it just because games were much simpler back then? One of the guys from Hello Games did an AMA on reddit a little while back (creators of Joe Danger) . While he didn’t give a dollar amount, he made it seem like it cost several hundred thousand to develop. For what it cost, I'd say those guys did an awesome job. http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/117p42/i_quit_my_job_a.. http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/117p42/i_quit_my_job_a....
- lifeformed 14y ago
  Dustforce dev here (http://dustforce.com http://dustforce.com). Our game cost around $100k to make. It was basically just living expenses for 4 people for 1.5 years.
  - goldfeld 14y ago
    Haven't played yet, but I'm in love with the art style. Congrats.
  - tmh88j 14y ago
    I've never heard of it, looks very cool though. Definitely buying a copy tonight!
geon 14y ago
> $900k which is barely a budget for a SNES game. Just to be clear: Did you mean the budget for a SNES game back in the day, adjusted for inflation, or a new game today, with SNES quality?
DanBC 14y ago
It's a bit worrying when you see projects like the Yogscast game (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/winterkewlgames/yogventures?ref=live http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/winterkewlgames/yogventu...) - Yogscast have a young audience and I'm not sure they have any idea what happens in game development. And I get the impression that a lot of people think game dev is just plugging a bunch of graphics into a game engine and a little bit of scripting, with some level design. [1] Interesting to see that paypal froze a payment until they could be assured that a game was actually being released. There's not much information on the pre-order page (http://www.winterkewl.com/games/yogscast/ http://www.winterkewl.com/games/yogscast/) (and the forums link has an expired certificate).
- illuminate 14y ago
  If you're concerned about the audience, wouldn't you be more worried about an 8 year old with direct access to a credit card?
  - ANTSANTS 14y ago
    "Mom/dad, can I please please please have Minecraft? All my friends have it and it's only $15 and blah blah blah" Depending on the household, what follows is probably either loads more whining, the parent arranging some kind of deal involving chores and vegetables, or the parent acting as a broker ("give me $15 and I'll use my credit card"). In the end, the kid ends up with their copy of Minecraft, and promptly begins either building things or setting other peoples' things on fire. Imagine that scenario, but instead, the kid believes they are preordering a game that their heroes are making. Perhaps if they are a bit older but still naive, they understand that the game does not yet exist, but they cannot fathom the possibility that their heroes will not follow through. I can easily see that scenario playing out almost the same: "Mom/dad, can I please please please have the Yogscast game? All my friends are ordering it and it's only $15 and it's going to be amazing and blah blah blah..." The parent probably won't read far enough into it to understand that it's a Kickstarter for something that doesn't exist yet, and will do whatever they usually do in these situations.
    - 14y ago
Shorel 14y ago
'Quality' is something different for different people. For the big studios is about huge and complex environments that are indeed very costly to do. That's what sells in consoles for $59 a piece. But they refuse to try to make any other kind of game that does not bring the same profits. The end result is a series of similar games and no innovation in new genres or no new titles of other not so popular genres, because we want that but we are not profitable enough for the studios. Only Halo after Halo and Madden after Madden. We don't want that. This is a dedicated group of people voting with their wallets to get something that the big AAA studios will not give them. Different and engaging gameplay at a smaller scale than big budget games. Of course the environments will not be as detailed as the big budget games. But the gameplay will be different. The rules will be broken. We will get something like Braid, Limbo or Bastion. We will never get that with the Big Studios.

mattchew 14y ago

I backed Wasteland 2, and if I see voice acting with lip-synced animations I'll be disappointed at the waste of resources. Like the other guy said, I'm expecting a play experience similar to Fallout 1/2. However, if I end up getting nothing, that's OK. Backing a project on Kickstarter is a gamble. This is obvious to me but the rest of the world doesn't seem to get it. I can only hope that people adjust their expectations a little after a few spectacular splats, rather than, say, throwing around lawsuits and ruining the whole idea for everyone.

rrreese 14y ago

I backed Wasteland, and I'm expecting a game similar to Fallout 2 with modern graphics and probably little to no voice acting. They're using unity so they making big savings right away, but are constrained with what that engine can do. And that's fine. I think most people who backed it want a game that's true to its roots rather then has the latest graphics etc. Finally Kickstarter doesn't preclude additional funding sources. $900k might have gotten them half way there with the assumption that they can get additional sources of funding after that point. bear in mind that they will be getting sales to people other then current backers after they release. I think the key thing though is that a small focused team, using an engine like Unity can get a lot done, and the constraints will be excepted by a community who is far more interested in a classic RPG then the latest graphics.

greggman 14y ago
Engines are great but engines don't make games, people do. Mostly artist and designers. A typical AAA game is 80% non engineers. Lots of AAA teams use existing engines like Unreal. It still takes them teams of 70 to 200 people a couple of years to make all that content. My point is Unity may br great but it's not really the solving the harder issue in games, Asset Creation As for expectations you might be right. Time will tell.

ergo14 14y ago

Actually I think that people pledging there know exactly what they will get. Especially if you bring FO3 and a SNES game into the discussion - then I'm affraid that Fallout 3 has less depth than many SNES games. As I have personally pledged to some projects there I can tell you what I'm expecting from the projects. I want them to deliver good gameplay - and good gameplay equals good ideas - not great AAA visuals - and those cost a lot. I've also backed Elite:Dangerous - they wanted 1.25kk pounds - a massive amount of money - Have you seen what did they manage to do with Frontier First Encounters? Check how many people worked on it, I estimate that given realistic expectation of what we might get - we can have massive value for our money out of kickstarter.

rrreese 14y ago
Which SNES games have more depth then FO3? I understand a lot of people where disappointed with FO3 but this is a genuine question.
- ergo14 14y ago
  Final fantasy, chrono trigger... any rpg basicly. Fallout 3 was a very bad game and was really dumbed down - New Vegas was way better. Hell... Another World (one of better games of all-time) was on SNES - and it cost the fraction of what Wasteland raised. Fallout 3 is just a shadow of the glory of previous games. One good example of an RPG made with a "modern engine" that would give a lot of freedom to the player would be Vampire:Bloodlines - although it had a fair share of bugs - it's one of best examples on how a great gameplay and story can be.
  - danso 14y ago
    Er...not sure if your definition of depth is the same as the commenter's...knows Square games may have been better games...but they were pretty linear with nlittle room for any deviation from the script or any real tactical challenge
    - ergo14 14y ago

kayoone 14y ago

As long as everybody doesnt develop its own engine and tech i think alot of stuff has changed today that makes game development cheaper. There are alot of good engines (Unity3D for example) that can get you going pretty quickly and still have a mighty set of features and possibilities.

tmh88j 14y ago

>for example Wasteland asked for $900k which is barely a budget for a SNES game >the original Lucas adventure games costs to make in the early 90s. Double Fine asked for $1mill I'm just curious, why are you comparing game development 20 years ago to current day standards? Is it just because games were much simpler back then? One of the guys from Hello Games did an AMA on reddit a little while back (creators of Joe Danger) . While he didn’t give a dollar amount, he made it seem like it cost several hundred thousand to develop. For what it cost, I'd say those guys did an awesome job. http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/117p42/i_quit_my_job_a.. http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/117p42/i_quit_my_job_a....

lifeformed 14y ago
Dustforce dev here (http://dustforce.com http://dustforce.com). Our game cost around $100k to make. It was basically just living expenses for 4 people for 1.5 years.
- goldfeld 14y ago
  Haven't played yet, but I'm in love with the art style. Congrats.
- tmh88j 14y ago
  I've never heard of it, looks very cool though. Definitely buying a copy tonight!

geon 14y ago

> $900k which is barely a budget for a SNES game. Just to be clear: Did you mean the budget for a SNES game back in the day, adjusted for inflation, or a new game today, with SNES quality?

DanBC 14y ago

It's a bit worrying when you see projects like the Yogscast game (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/winterkewlgames/yogventures?ref=live http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/winterkewlgames/yogventu...) - Yogscast have a young audience and I'm not sure they have any idea what happens in game development. And I get the impression that a lot of people think game dev is just plugging a bunch of graphics into a game engine and a little bit of scripting, with some level design. [1] Interesting to see that paypal froze a payment until they could be assured that a game was actually being released. There's not much information on the pre-order page (http://www.winterkewl.com/games/yogscast/ http://www.winterkewl.com/games/yogscast/) (and the forums link has an expired certificate).

illuminate 14y ago
If you're concerned about the audience, wouldn't you be more worried about an 8 year old with direct access to a credit card?
- ANTSANTS 14y ago
  "Mom/dad, can I please please please have Minecraft? All my friends have it and it's only $15 and blah blah blah" Depending on the household, what follows is probably either loads more whining, the parent arranging some kind of deal involving chores and vegetables, or the parent acting as a broker ("give me $15 and I'll use my credit card"). In the end, the kid ends up with their copy of Minecraft, and promptly begins either building things or setting other peoples' things on fire. Imagine that scenario, but instead, the kid believes they are preordering a game that their heroes are making. Perhaps if they are a bit older but still naive, they understand that the game does not yet exist, but they cannot fathom the possibility that their heroes will not follow through. I can easily see that scenario playing out almost the same: "Mom/dad, can I please please please have the Yogscast game? All my friends are ordering it and it's only $15 and it's going to be amazing and blah blah blah..." The parent probably won't read far enough into it to understand that it's a Kickstarter for something that doesn't exist yet, and will do whatever they usually do in these situations.
  - 14y ago

Shorel 14y ago

'Quality' is something different for different people. For the big studios is about huge and complex environments that are indeed very costly to do. That's what sells in consoles for $59 a piece. But they refuse to try to make any other kind of game that does not bring the same profits. The end result is a series of similar games and no innovation in new genres or no new titles of other not so popular genres, because we want that but we are not profitable enough for the studios. Only Halo after Halo and Madden after Madden. We don't want that. This is a dedicated group of people voting with their wallets to get something that the big AAA studios will not give them. Different and engaging gameplay at a smaller scale than big budget games. Of course the environments will not be as detailed as the big budget games. But the gameplay will be different. The rules will be broken. We will get something like Braid, Limbo or Bastion. We will never get that with the Big Studios.