5 ms·

> it was $0 of my own money thanks to a grant and interest free loan. Pretty sure it's all tax funded. Where I am as soon as the government introduced subsidi

> it was $0 of my own money thanks to a grant and interest free loan. Pretty sure it's all tax funded. Where I am as soon as the government introduced subsidies every single installer jacked their price 2-5x, now they all start right at the threshold at which the subsidies kicks in, amazing... it costs twice as much to the community but "0" to the individual

baal80spam 5mo ago
It ALWAYS happens.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
bgirard 5mo ago
Similarly my friend swaps electric cars every couple of years (Volt -> Bolt -> Equinox) bragging about all the discounts and subsidies he's gotten. Maybe it's still beneficial through the used car market but it doesn't feel like an effective subsidy for the government to be handing out.
- baq 5mo ago
  it's a way to get infrastructure built up. the tax dollars pay for bootstrapping of the ecosystem. it's actually smart in principle if you think about it, but obviously there's room for abuse and outright fraud.
  - teiferer 5mo ago
    Exactly. Sadly, it gets overlooked how much subsidies nuclear and even oil+gas have received over the years. Nuclear energy wouldn't even be a thing without heavy govt subsidies. And it keeps needing subsidies. No nuclear plant is economical without subsidies. (The operators admit this themselves.) In contrast, the solar and wind industry is eventually carrying itself without subsidies. In many parts of the world that's already the case since tech and market have matured.
    - rjrjrjrj 5mo ago
      Not an exaggeration to say that oil and gas is the most subsidized enterprise in human history.
    - alexey-salmin 5mo ago
      The total cost of the French nuclear program since the beginning was estimated at 228 billion euros at 2012 prices, including both research and construction costs. By that time Germany cumulatively poured around a trilling euros into the green energy and still had coal power plants and 2x the CO2 per capita compared to France. As of 2026, in Germany 22.5% of electricity still comes from coal and CO2 per capita is still 1.7x of France. The hard numbers so far are extremely favorable towards nuclear. Roughly speaking you get 1.7x better results at a 1/4 of the cost.
      - teiferer 5mo ago
        Using German coal dependence as a baseline statistic to prove that nuclear is more economical than green energy is a remarkable stunt.
        alexey-salmin 5mo ago
        What's the stunt? France built reactors for modest cost and phased out coal. Germany wasted enormous amounts of money on green energy and made very little progress. Which country is more "green"? Which technology is more "green"?
        teiferer 5mo ago
        I'd say you are comparing different things in different eras. When France built the majority of its nuclear plants, 70s-90s, Germany didn't do anything renewable to speak of but sunk billions into the dying coal industry. Unions and other worker movements put lots of pressure on policy makers to keep subsidizing coal long after it was remotely meaningful to do so, mainly to avoid coal workers getting unemployed and whole regions dying out. Would have been cheaper to just give all those workers a sizeable pension and kick-start other tech, nuclear or not. When Germany started serious bets on wind and solar, after 2000, France didn't really add much nuclear anymore. So, the comparison you are making just doesn't work well, no matter if one likes nuclear or not.
teiferer 5mo ago
> Pretty sure it's all tax funded. That's too simple of a statement. Sure, govt grants are involved in subsidies for installation and the loan interest. But that thing is then generating electricity, which is what saves them the money. So it's not "all" tax funded. Some of it is the sun's energy, and that was the whole point.
1123581321 5mo ago
Where do you live? There should still be price competition on types of inverters, aesthetics, focus on highest ROI, etc. I live in a heavily subsidized state and quotes ranged from (after subsidies/incentives) 5-6 year ROI to 20-25 year ROI.
testing22321 5mo ago
> Pretty sure it's all tax funded Yes. I’m very happy my taxes are spent on things that improve the lives of everyday people rather than endless wars. Either spend it on productive things, or have zero taxes.

baal80spam 5mo ago

It ALWAYS happens.

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]

bgirard 5mo ago

Similarly my friend swaps electric cars every couple of years (Volt -> Bolt -> Equinox) bragging about all the discounts and subsidies he's gotten. Maybe it's still beneficial through the used car market but it doesn't feel like an effective subsidy for the government to be handing out.

baq 5mo ago
it's a way to get infrastructure built up. the tax dollars pay for bootstrapping of the ecosystem. it's actually smart in principle if you think about it, but obviously there's room for abuse and outright fraud.
- teiferer 5mo ago
  Exactly. Sadly, it gets overlooked how much subsidies nuclear and even oil+gas have received over the years. Nuclear energy wouldn't even be a thing without heavy govt subsidies. And it keeps needing subsidies. No nuclear plant is economical without subsidies. (The operators admit this themselves.) In contrast, the solar and wind industry is eventually carrying itself without subsidies. In many parts of the world that's already the case since tech and market have matured.
  - rjrjrjrj 5mo ago
    Not an exaggeration to say that oil and gas is the most subsidized enterprise in human history.
  - alexey-salmin 5mo ago
    The total cost of the French nuclear program since the beginning was estimated at 228 billion euros at 2012 prices, including both research and construction costs. By that time Germany cumulatively poured around a trilling euros into the green energy and still had coal power plants and 2x the CO2 per capita compared to France. As of 2026, in Germany 22.5% of electricity still comes from coal and CO2 per capita is still 1.7x of France. The hard numbers so far are extremely favorable towards nuclear. Roughly speaking you get 1.7x better results at a 1/4 of the cost.
    - teiferer 5mo ago
      Using German coal dependence as a baseline statistic to prove that nuclear is more economical than green energy is a remarkable stunt.
      - alexey-salmin 5mo ago
        What's the stunt? France built reactors for modest cost and phased out coal. Germany wasted enormous amounts of money on green energy and made very little progress. Which country is more "green"? Which technology is more "green"?
        teiferer 5mo ago
        I'd say you are comparing different things in different eras. When France built the majority of its nuclear plants, 70s-90s, Germany didn't do anything renewable to speak of but sunk billions into the dying coal industry. Unions and other worker movements put lots of pressure on policy makers to keep subsidizing coal long after it was remotely meaningful to do so, mainly to avoid coal workers getting unemployed and whole regions dying out. Would have been cheaper to just give all those workers a sizeable pension and kick-start other tech, nuclear or not. When Germany started serious bets on wind and solar, after 2000, France didn't really add much nuclear anymore. So, the comparison you are making just doesn't work well, no matter if one likes nuclear or not.

teiferer 5mo ago

> Pretty sure it's all tax funded. That's too simple of a statement. Sure, govt grants are involved in subsidies for installation and the loan interest. But that thing is then generating electricity, which is what saves them the money. So it's not "all" tax funded. Some of it is the sun's energy, and that was the whole point.

1123581321 5mo ago

Where do you live? There should still be price competition on types of inverters, aesthetics, focus on highest ROI, etc. I live in a heavily subsidized state and quotes ranged from (after subsidies/incentives) 5-6 year ROI to 20-25 year ROI.

testing22321 5mo ago

> Pretty sure it's all tax funded Yes. I’m very happy my taxes are spent on things that improve the lives of everyday people rather than endless wars. Either spend it on productive things, or have zero taxes.