6 ms·

Even light drinking raises risk of cancer, heart disease, and early death

26 points by stringfood 4mo ago

1shooner 4mo ago
>It turns out that two drinks per day, which might be considered ‘moderate’ from a social standpoint, is associated with a substantially elevated risk of a premature death caused by alcohol, they explain. Two drinks sounds moderate to me. Averaging two drinks a day does not.
- triceratops 4mo ago
  2 drinks a day is approaching Mad Men levels of alcohol consumption.
  - ChrisLTD 4mo ago
    more like 2 drinks per meal in Mad Men
    - triceratops 4mo ago
      2 and 6 are the same order of magnitude.
      - Clamchop 4mo ago
        They're within an order of magnitude of each other but they're not _in_ the same order of magnitude. 2 would be in the 0th order and 6 would be in the 1st. But even if it weren't so, I'm not sure what your point is. Do you have a reason for thinking that orders of magnitude is a good way to compare alcohol consumption?
  - 4fterd4rk 4mo ago
    The typical glass of wine you'd be served at a dinner party is actually two "standard" drinks. So... no. Not at all. Not even close.
    - triceratops 4mo ago
      The article says 5oz (approximately 150ml) of wine is one standard drink. Unless you're being served nearly half a wine bottle (300ml of a standard 750ml bottle) in a single glass at a dinner party, you're wrong about that. And if your dinner parties really are like that, cheers friend. Fun times.
      - 4fterd4rk 4mo ago
        haha I stand by my statement
- adjejmxbdjdn 4mo ago
  Alcohol education classes promote (or used to promote…I had to attend one a couple of decades ago in college), the 1-2-3 system. Not more than 1 unit an hour, don’t average more than 2 units a day over a week, and never exceed 3 units a day. The caveat here is that a unit is much less than a regular serving size. A pint of beer is usually closer to 2 units. So the recommendation was to not average more than a pint of beer a day, and to never drink more than about 1.5 pints in a day. It’s much more stringent than people imagine.
  - bluefirebrand 4mo ago
    > It’s much more stringent than people imagine Only from a perspective of "drinking any amount of alcohol daily is normal" I realize that I'm a pretty extreme outlier in that I don't drink alcohol almost at all anymore. Even when I did drink, drinking any amount daily would have been unfathomable to me. A couple of drinks on Friday and over the weekend was plenty. Maybe one drink after work on a weeknight if I went out with coworkers or something I don't really get why people love it so much, honestly
    - triceratops 4mo ago
      I agree with everything you wrote except that last paragraph.
  - triceratops 4mo ago
    A pint of beer a day is a lot. It's almost 500 calories - a meal by itself. EDIT: I multiplied wrong, it's more like 250 calories. I don't see how that's "stringent".
    - jdsnape 4mo ago
      Maybe there are different sized pints, but in the uk a pint of beer is about 200 calories. Depends on your social circle of course, but it’s pretty standard to have two or three pints if you meet up with friends in a pub.
- jerlam 4mo ago
  NIH would define this as "heavy alcohol use". According to their estimates, only 5.5% of adults did this in the past month: https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-topics-z/alcohol-facts-and-statistics/alcohol-use-united-states-age-groups-and-demographic-characteristics https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-to... (Search for "Prevalence of Past-Month Heavy Alcohol Use") Some interesting stats in there. Like only 85% of adults have drank ever in their lifetime.
utdoctor 4mo ago
You can spend your entire life minimizing risk, maximizing safety, and avoiding discomfort, or you can actually live. Either way you’re going to end up dead. Moderation > abstinence in most things.
- bluefirebrand 4mo ago
  Why is abstinence "not living" but drinking is? I'm not really anti drug or alcohol, but I am absolutely anti "substance use is the only way to truly live", even in moderation I spent my twenties drinking moderately, and I barely drink at all in my 30s. I don't miss it even a bit and I'm way more alive now than I was then.
  - arealaccount 4mo ago
    I guess if you enjoy drinking, and would miss it in its absence, then you can call it "not living"
    - bluefirebrand 4mo ago
      I dunno, that seems simplistic imo I was diagnosed as celiac only a year ago. Many of my favorite meals and desserts contain gluten because I didn't know I was celiac. I can't have those things anymore. I do miss them, but I don't think I'm "not living" now that I have to avoid them I'm just living differently and much more carefully about what I eat
      - stringfood 4mo ago
        You can spend your life avoiding grain, sugar, and alcohol... or you can actually live a real life /s
  - sublinear 4mo ago
    Whether you drink is probably irrelevant to why you feel more alive. Life experience opens up a ton of opportunities.
  - 4mo ago
Mathnerd314 4mo ago
So I'm looking at Figure 2 of the study and it shows that risk is negative (I.e. it's a benefit) below 7 drinks per week or 1 drink per day. And then they say "There was no protective net effect of alcohol observed at any level of alcohol consumption." And then they discuss the observed protective effects and just say "this body of evidence [that we used] has substantial limitations". They also say "Readers should therefore consider both the point estimates and their associated CIs when interpreting the risk thresholds presented in this study." but then their CI indicates only 2+ drinks per day can cause statistically significant issues. Overall, a very boring study. It would be more interesting if they published the code and we could play with the numbers, seeing as all the data they used is public, but we can't even do that.
4fterd4rk 4mo ago
And going outside increases your risk of getting hit by a car

26 points by stringfood 4mo ago

>It turns out that two drinks per day, which might be considered ‘moderate’ from a social standpoint, is associated with a substantially elevated risk of a premature death caused by alcohol, they explain. Two drinks sounds moderate to me. Averaging two drinks a day does not.

triceratops 4mo ago
2 drinks a day is approaching Mad Men levels of alcohol consumption.
- ChrisLTD 4mo ago
  more like 2 drinks per meal in Mad Men
  - triceratops 4mo ago
    2 and 6 are the same order of magnitude.
    - Clamchop 4mo ago
      They're within an order of magnitude of each other but they're not _in_ the same order of magnitude. 2 would be in the 0th order and 6 would be in the 1st. But even if it weren't so, I'm not sure what your point is. Do you have a reason for thinking that orders of magnitude is a good way to compare alcohol consumption?
- 4fterd4rk 4mo ago
  The typical glass of wine you'd be served at a dinner party is actually two "standard" drinks. So... no. Not at all. Not even close.
  - triceratops 4mo ago
    The article says 5oz (approximately 150ml) of wine is one standard drink. Unless you're being served nearly half a wine bottle (300ml of a standard 750ml bottle) in a single glass at a dinner party, you're wrong about that. And if your dinner parties really are like that, cheers friend. Fun times.
    - 4fterd4rk 4mo ago
      haha I stand by my statement
adjejmxbdjdn 4mo ago
Alcohol education classes promote (or used to promote…I had to attend one a couple of decades ago in college), the 1-2-3 system. Not more than 1 unit an hour, don’t average more than 2 units a day over a week, and never exceed 3 units a day. The caveat here is that a unit is much less than a regular serving size. A pint of beer is usually closer to 2 units. So the recommendation was to not average more than a pint of beer a day, and to never drink more than about 1.5 pints in a day. It’s much more stringent than people imagine.
- bluefirebrand 4mo ago
  > It’s much more stringent than people imagine Only from a perspective of "drinking any amount of alcohol daily is normal" I realize that I'm a pretty extreme outlier in that I don't drink alcohol almost at all anymore. Even when I did drink, drinking any amount daily would have been unfathomable to me. A couple of drinks on Friday and over the weekend was plenty. Maybe one drink after work on a weeknight if I went out with coworkers or something I don't really get why people love it so much, honestly
  - triceratops 4mo ago
    I agree with everything you wrote except that last paragraph.
- triceratops 4mo ago
  A pint of beer a day is a lot. It's almost 500 calories - a meal by itself. EDIT: I multiplied wrong, it's more like 250 calories. I don't see how that's "stringent".
  - jdsnape 4mo ago
    Maybe there are different sized pints, but in the uk a pint of beer is about 200 calories. Depends on your social circle of course, but it’s pretty standard to have two or three pints if you meet up with friends in a pub.
jerlam 4mo ago
NIH would define this as "heavy alcohol use". According to their estimates, only 5.5% of adults did this in the past month: https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-topics-z/alcohol-facts-and-statistics/alcohol-use-united-states-age-groups-and-demographic-characteristics https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-to... (Search for "Prevalence of Past-Month Heavy Alcohol Use") Some interesting stats in there. Like only 85% of adults have drank ever in their lifetime.

utdoctor 4mo ago

You can spend your entire life minimizing risk, maximizing safety, and avoiding discomfort, or you can actually live. Either way you’re going to end up dead. Moderation > abstinence in most things.

bluefirebrand 4mo ago
Why is abstinence "not living" but drinking is? I'm not really anti drug or alcohol, but I am absolutely anti "substance use is the only way to truly live", even in moderation I spent my twenties drinking moderately, and I barely drink at all in my 30s. I don't miss it even a bit and I'm way more alive now than I was then.
- arealaccount 4mo ago
  I guess if you enjoy drinking, and would miss it in its absence, then you can call it "not living"
  - bluefirebrand 4mo ago
    I dunno, that seems simplistic imo I was diagnosed as celiac only a year ago. Many of my favorite meals and desserts contain gluten because I didn't know I was celiac. I can't have those things anymore. I do miss them, but I don't think I'm "not living" now that I have to avoid them I'm just living differently and much more carefully about what I eat
    - stringfood 4mo ago
      You can spend your life avoiding grain, sugar, and alcohol... or you can actually live a real life /s
- sublinear 4mo ago
  Whether you drink is probably irrelevant to why you feel more alive. Life experience opens up a ton of opportunities.
- 4mo ago

Mathnerd314 4mo ago

So I'm looking at Figure 2 of the study and it shows that risk is negative (I.e. it's a benefit) below 7 drinks per week or 1 drink per day. And then they say "There was no protective net effect of alcohol observed at any level of alcohol consumption." And then they discuss the observed protective effects and just say "this body of evidence [that we used] has substantial limitations". They also say "Readers should therefore consider both the point estimates and their associated CIs when interpreting the risk thresholds presented in this study." but then their CI indicates only 2+ drinks per day can cause statistically significant issues. Overall, a very boring study. It would be more interesting if they published the code and we could play with the numbers, seeing as all the data they used is public, but we can't even do that.

4fterd4rk 4mo ago

And going outside increases your risk of getting hit by a car