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> Once it leaves the device Apple does not know what those other ai chat apps will do with the gathered data. It's the user's data. Not Apple's. And it should

by aprilthird2021 4mo ago

> Once it leaves the device Apple does not know what those other ai chat apps will do with the gathered data. It's the user's data. Not Apple's. And it should be the user's right to send it to whoever for whatever results, imo

koolala 4mo ago
Meta would probably start a massive ad campain to pay people money to install Meta iPhone AI.
- FridgeSeal 4mo ago
  They wouldn’t even need to do that. It’s pretty easy to come up with any number of pernicious approaches they’d use: - “instagram is better with MetaAi: yes/ask-me-later”. - updated ToS which bundles a “we’ll use our own ai, and do whatever we waaaaant” Lying, gaslighting and underhanded “growth hacking” tricks are their bread-and-butter, and you can be sure that whatever they’d have you install would blindly slurp up as much as they possibly can with zero regard for user privacy.
- benoau 4mo ago
  Meta already did that, right under Apple's nose for three years! https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/
Rohansi 4mo ago
And that's exactly how it works for apps you download from the App Store. Apple even makes app publishers declare data collection and privacy practices on the App Store before you install apps. It's clearly just Apple not wanting to further open up their platform to competition.
- benoau 4mo ago
  Not only that but it's an honour system they aren't checking any of the privacy policies or labels for accuracy, just last year a whole bunch of high-profile apps like Candy Crush Saga and Clash of Clans got caught claiming suitability for all ages while their privacy policies banned under 13s so they could advertise and collect data indiscriminately.
  - Rohansi 4mo ago
    They should be checking things like that. It's something that you'd expect to be covered by Apple's 30% cut.
e28eta 4mo ago
I think there’s a case that Apple’s commitment to privacy here will increase participation by 3rd party developers. For example, if I’m maintaining a secure chat app, I think I’d be more likely to adopt the APIs to share the chat messages with the system AI due to Apple’s promises that the data will either be processed On Device, or in their Private Compute Cloud. If I instead believe that sharing the chat messages with the system AI would cause those messages to be sent to unknown-to-me other entities, I think I’d be less likely to participate in the new API. This user might be okay with their data going to this other provider, but what about the people they’re messaging? I have a responsibility and a commitment to _all_ of my users to protect their data. I might not be able to control what any specific user does with the data, but proactively writing the code that sends the chat messages to this other system is something that I have control over.
- Rohansi 4mo ago
  > This user might be okay with their data going to this other provider, but what about the people they’re messaging? I have a responsibility and a commitment to _all_ of my users to protect their data. That's nice of you but your users are going to just copy-paste data to and from ChatGPT anyway.
  - e28eta 4mo ago
    I think the difference is in the scale. I think Apple’s asking you to index / share all of the data from your app. Virtually no user is going to copy & paste every single message into ChatGPT. And so I think there’s a meaningful difference between the app donating all the data automatically, vs making the data available to the user who is free to share what they want.
- ok_dad 4mo ago
  That’s not your data, why do you think you have the right to prevent the user from doing what they want? Other users shared that chat data with each other, you have no right to that data, so as an app developer I’d say you should not care about the API.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]

koolala 4mo ago

Meta would probably start a massive ad campain to pay people money to install Meta iPhone AI.

FridgeSeal 4mo ago
They wouldn’t even need to do that. It’s pretty easy to come up with any number of pernicious approaches they’d use: - “instagram is better with MetaAi: yes/ask-me-later”. - updated ToS which bundles a “we’ll use our own ai, and do whatever we waaaaant” Lying, gaslighting and underhanded “growth hacking” tricks are their bread-and-butter, and you can be sure that whatever they’d have you install would blindly slurp up as much as they possibly can with zero regard for user privacy.
benoau 4mo ago
Meta already did that, right under Apple's nose for three years! https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/01/29/facebook-project-atlas/

Rohansi 4mo ago

And that's exactly how it works for apps you download from the App Store. Apple even makes app publishers declare data collection and privacy practices on the App Store before you install apps. It's clearly just Apple not wanting to further open up their platform to competition.

benoau 4mo ago
Not only that but it's an honour system they aren't checking any of the privacy policies or labels for accuracy, just last year a whole bunch of high-profile apps like Candy Crush Saga and Clash of Clans got caught claiming suitability for all ages while their privacy policies banned under 13s so they could advertise and collect data indiscriminately.
- Rohansi 4mo ago
  They should be checking things like that. It's something that you'd expect to be covered by Apple's 30% cut.

e28eta 4mo ago

I think there’s a case that Apple’s commitment to privacy here will increase participation by 3rd party developers. For example, if I’m maintaining a secure chat app, I think I’d be more likely to adopt the APIs to share the chat messages with the system AI due to Apple’s promises that the data will either be processed On Device, or in their Private Compute Cloud. If I instead believe that sharing the chat messages with the system AI would cause those messages to be sent to unknown-to-me other entities, I think I’d be less likely to participate in the new API. This user might be okay with their data going to this other provider, but what about the people they’re messaging? I have a responsibility and a commitment to _all_ of my users to protect their data. I might not be able to control what any specific user does with the data, but proactively writing the code that sends the chat messages to this other system is something that I have control over.

Rohansi 4mo ago
> This user might be okay with their data going to this other provider, but what about the people they’re messaging? I have a responsibility and a commitment to _all_ of my users to protect their data. That's nice of you but your users are going to just copy-paste data to and from ChatGPT anyway.
- e28eta 4mo ago
  I think the difference is in the scale. I think Apple’s asking you to index / share all of the data from your app. Virtually no user is going to copy & paste every single message into ChatGPT. And so I think there’s a meaningful difference between the app donating all the data automatically, vs making the data available to the user who is free to share what they want.
ok_dad 4mo ago
That’s not your data, why do you think you have the right to prevent the user from doing what they want? Other users shared that chat data with each other, you have no right to that data, so as an app developer I’d say you should not care about the API.

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]