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The Chinese "Neijuan" is real & well reported: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/what-is-involution-chinas-race-to-the-bottom-competition-tr

The Chinese "Neijuan" is real & well reported: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/what-is-involution-chinas-race-to-the-bottom-competition-trend-2025-09-14/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/what-i... It is another thing the BigLabs accuse open weight models of benefiting from distillation & other techniques & essentially avoid higher training costs (which typically bleed into bills end users pay for inference). Ex A: https://www.anthropic.com/research/2028-ai-leadership https://www.anthropic.com/research/2028-ai-leadership Ex B: https://www.reuters.com/world/china/openai-accuses-deepseek-distilling-us-models-gain-advantage-bloomberg-news-2026-02-12/ https://www.reuters.com/world/china/openai-accuses-deepseek-...

flexagoon 4mo ago
True, but why would end users care about that? If anything, training on synthetic AI output is more ethical than on scraped human works (of course, not to say the Chinese labs aren't doing the latter)
trollbridge 4mo ago
We buy cheap Chinese goods all the time. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. In this case, at least it’s threatening multimillion dollar salary jobs instead of entire towns of working class people in America or Mexico. And the Chinese labs actually release their weights. You could call it… open AI.
- ncr100 4mo ago
  Lololol.
overfeed 4mo ago
Big labs ripped videos off YouTube without caring about the ToS, and grabbed as much published literature they could get their hands on, regardless of legality (Books3, The Pile). The goal of "democratizing human knowledge" by way of thinking machines is far too noble to worry about frivolities like copyright and authorial consent, they said. Until it was their output being exploited, and their earning potential threatened.
amunozo 4mo ago
Chinese are also simply better at making a lot of things cheaper, e.g. solar panels or electric vehicles.
drawfloat 4mo ago
We just had years of US model providers arguing it was fine to rip off the world’s cultural output for their own profit, why should their work be treated any different?

flexagoon 4mo ago

True, but why would end users care about that? If anything, training on synthetic AI output is more ethical than on scraped human works (of course, not to say the Chinese labs aren't doing the latter)

trollbridge 4mo ago

We buy cheap Chinese goods all the time. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. In this case, at least it’s threatening multimillion dollar salary jobs instead of entire towns of working class people in America or Mexico. And the Chinese labs actually release their weights. You could call it… open AI.

ncr100 4mo ago
Lololol.

overfeed 4mo ago

Big labs ripped videos off YouTube without caring about the ToS, and grabbed as much published literature they could get their hands on, regardless of legality (Books3, The Pile). The goal of "democratizing human knowledge" by way of thinking machines is far too noble to worry about frivolities like copyright and authorial consent, they said. Until it was their output being exploited, and their earning potential threatened.

amunozo 4mo ago

Chinese are also simply better at making a lot of things cheaper, e.g. solar panels or electric vehicles.

drawfloat 4mo ago

We just had years of US model providers arguing it was fine to rip off the world’s cultural output for their own profit, why should their work be treated any different?