3 ms·

No fan of Meta, but I think "staggering" is properly determined by the percent of users affected rather than the absolute number. It's staggering to an SMB with

No fan of Meta, but I think "staggering" is properly determined by the percent of users affected rather than the absolute number. It's staggering to an SMB with 100k customers; it's bad, but not "staggering" to an internet juggernaught with 3B MAU.

Gigachad 4mo ago
Twenty _thousand_ people had their personal data stolen, many of them relied on these accounts to run their business, many put at risk of hackers impersonating them. Meta in a fair world should be forced to financially compensate these people. They built a world where many people basically have to use their products for their jobs and then failed to look after the data because they wanted to replace customer support with a vibe coded AI tool.
- simpaticoder 4mo ago
  Over forty _thousand_ people die every year in the US from car accidents. Plenty of other preventable injustices happen in all areas of life. I wonder how many fathers are unjustly taken away from their children by a corrupt family court system, how many people die of treatable diseases denied treatment by insurance companies, how many kids lose interest in school because of bad teachers, how many customer service workers endure daily abuse because they need the job. It's not that the breach isn't bad, or that Meta is a sympathetic company. It's bad and they're not. I just find it hard to feel outraged about this particular incident affected 1 out of every 10k users of a social media site when we live in a world with citizen's united, qualified immunity, and $300 insulin.
  - Gigachad 4mo ago
    The US car deaths stat is also completely insane and way higher than other countries. I can recognize that at scale, securing every account is a very difficult task, but with scale comes responsibility. Meta plays fast and loose rushing in unsupervised vibeslop agents to save a penny. They should be significantly penalized for such a massive failure, particularly for how long this exploit was live and for how the victims were unable to get in contact with any human at Meta to restore their account.
    - iknowstuff 4mo ago
      1.2M car-related deaths worldwide every year. WW1 worth every decade.
      - mikrotikker 4mo ago
        [flagged]
    - reaperducer 4mo ago
      way higher than other countries You must live in Monaco. Wikipedia has the United States #80. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...
      - n0on3 4mo ago
        Sure, but #80 out of 190, still not great ain’t it?
        reassess_blind 4mo ago
        It's about average.
        kgwgk 4mo ago
        Not great, not exactly what “completely insane and way higher than other countries” evokes either.
      - frm88 4mo ago
        Wikipedia has the United States #80. Where do you see that? With 14.2/100K the US comes in at 111/190
        watwut 4mo ago
        Order by deaths per inhabitant and it is 80.
  - eddyfromtheblok 4mo ago
    ok, but we, as engineers, can do better. rather than leaning on lawyers as a crutch to eschew liability.
  - watwut 4mo ago
    Fathers who ask for custody are massively successfull statistically. Also, taking kids from father requires quite a lot. And no, actually proven domestic violence issue is not enough if it was not provably against the kid itself. Familly courts have flaws, but fathers with interest in kids having them stolwn en mass is not one of them.
  - me-vs-cat 4mo ago
    > Over forty thousand people die every year in the US from car accidents. If a single company was solely responsible for car accidents causing that many deaths in as short a time as this, the consequences would be severe.
- mikrotikker 4mo ago
  [flagged]
  - iamkrazy 4mo ago
    [dead]
- ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
  It's not staggering. I fully expect thousands of people to lose their IG accounts per day to other hacks before this bug. That's like 0.000001 percent of active users. It's a big platform with many people. But totally Meta should pay. There's not many people to pay. They should sue.
  - ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
    Here are some sources that show the amount of hacked accounts, daily, before this bug is thousands or even tens of thousands. Apparently 30%+ of all social media account takeovers happen on instagram and it's not even the largest platform. I didn't verify the sources, just searched how many. https://www.hackingloops.com/social-media-hacking-statistics-and-trends/ https://www.hackingloops.com/social-media-hacking-statistics... https://www.zerofox.com/blog/often-social-media-accounts-hacked/ https://www.zerofox.com/blog/often-social-media-accounts-hac... Downvotes are welcome to share their sources
- tjpnz 4mo ago
  If you're relying on Meta to operate your business you're on shaky ground and it's a strong hint it was never viable to begin with.
- latexr 4mo ago
  > Meta in a fair world should be forced to financially compensate these people. In a fair world, Meta and companies like it wouldn’t exist.
- onion2k 4mo ago
  Twenty _thousand_ people had their personal data stolen, many of them relied on these accounts to run their business, many put at risk of hackers impersonating them. It only worked for accounts that didn't have 2FA switched on. If your livelihood depends on your account and you're risking not turning on some pretty basic security features then you should accept partial responsibility.
  - hilariously 4mo ago
    Did they partially hack their accounts? No, why would you be saying its partially the victim's fault when the billion dollar corporation doesn't secure their shit?
madeofpalk 4mo ago
No. Percentages allow them to hide in the law of averages. Go tell those twenty thousand people that it's banal that Meta fucked up like this.
sandcat_ 4mo ago
Worth noting that Meta has a track record of revising breach numbers upwards. We may find out it’s a lot higher than this in the coming weeks.
gaiagraphia 4mo ago
Why does scale absolve you of crime? If you or me hacked 20,000 people and potentially fucked over their lives, what'd be the consequences? Who's going to attach their name to this negligent act and do time?

Gigachad 4mo ago

Twenty _thousand_ people had their personal data stolen, many of them relied on these accounts to run their business, many put at risk of hackers impersonating them. Meta in a fair world should be forced to financially compensate these people. They built a world where many people basically have to use their products for their jobs and then failed to look after the data because they wanted to replace customer support with a vibe coded AI tool.

simpaticoder 4mo ago
Over forty _thousand_ people die every year in the US from car accidents. Plenty of other preventable injustices happen in all areas of life. I wonder how many fathers are unjustly taken away from their children by a corrupt family court system, how many people die of treatable diseases denied treatment by insurance companies, how many kids lose interest in school because of bad teachers, how many customer service workers endure daily abuse because they need the job. It's not that the breach isn't bad, or that Meta is a sympathetic company. It's bad and they're not. I just find it hard to feel outraged about this particular incident affected 1 out of every 10k users of a social media site when we live in a world with citizen's united, qualified immunity, and $300 insulin.
- Gigachad 4mo ago
  The US car deaths stat is also completely insane and way higher than other countries. I can recognize that at scale, securing every account is a very difficult task, but with scale comes responsibility. Meta plays fast and loose rushing in unsupervised vibeslop agents to save a penny. They should be significantly penalized for such a massive failure, particularly for how long this exploit was live and for how the victims were unable to get in contact with any human at Meta to restore their account.
  - iknowstuff 4mo ago
    1.2M car-related deaths worldwide every year. WW1 worth every decade.
    - mikrotikker 4mo ago
      [flagged]
  - reaperducer 4mo ago
    way higher than other countries You must live in Monaco. Wikipedia has the United States #80. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r...
    - n0on3 4mo ago
      Sure, but #80 out of 190, still not great ain’t it?
      - reassess_blind 4mo ago
        It's about average.
      - kgwgk 4mo ago
        Not great, not exactly what “completely insane and way higher than other countries” evokes either.
    - frm88 4mo ago
      Wikipedia has the United States #80. Where do you see that? With 14.2/100K the US comes in at 111/190
      - watwut 4mo ago
        Order by deaths per inhabitant and it is 80.
- eddyfromtheblok 4mo ago
  ok, but we, as engineers, can do better. rather than leaning on lawyers as a crutch to eschew liability.
- watwut 4mo ago
  Fathers who ask for custody are massively successfull statistically. Also, taking kids from father requires quite a lot. And no, actually proven domestic violence issue is not enough if it was not provably against the kid itself. Familly courts have flaws, but fathers with interest in kids having them stolwn en mass is not one of them.
- me-vs-cat 4mo ago
  > Over forty thousand people die every year in the US from car accidents. If a single company was solely responsible for car accidents causing that many deaths in as short a time as this, the consequences would be severe.
mikrotikker 4mo ago
[flagged]
- iamkrazy 4mo ago
  [dead]
ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
It's not staggering. I fully expect thousands of people to lose their IG accounts per day to other hacks before this bug. That's like 0.000001 percent of active users. It's a big platform with many people. But totally Meta should pay. There's not many people to pay. They should sue.
- ShinyLeftPad 4mo ago
  Here are some sources that show the amount of hacked accounts, daily, before this bug is thousands or even tens of thousands. Apparently 30%+ of all social media account takeovers happen on instagram and it's not even the largest platform. I didn't verify the sources, just searched how many. https://www.hackingloops.com/social-media-hacking-statistics-and-trends/ https://www.hackingloops.com/social-media-hacking-statistics... https://www.zerofox.com/blog/often-social-media-accounts-hacked/ https://www.zerofox.com/blog/often-social-media-accounts-hac... Downvotes are welcome to share their sources
tjpnz 4mo ago
If you're relying on Meta to operate your business you're on shaky ground and it's a strong hint it was never viable to begin with.
latexr 4mo ago
> Meta in a fair world should be forced to financially compensate these people. In a fair world, Meta and companies like it wouldn’t exist.
onion2k 4mo ago
Twenty _thousand_ people had their personal data stolen, many of them relied on these accounts to run their business, many put at risk of hackers impersonating them. It only worked for accounts that didn't have 2FA switched on. If your livelihood depends on your account and you're risking not turning on some pretty basic security features then you should accept partial responsibility.
- hilariously 4mo ago
  Did they partially hack their accounts? No, why would you be saying its partially the victim's fault when the billion dollar corporation doesn't secure their shit?

madeofpalk 4mo ago

No. Percentages allow them to hide in the law of averages. Go tell those twenty thousand people that it's banal that Meta fucked up like this.

sandcat_ 4mo ago

Worth noting that Meta has a track record of revising breach numbers upwards. We may find out it’s a lot higher than this in the coming weeks.

gaiagraphia 4mo ago

Why does scale absolve you of crime? If you or me hacked 20,000 people and potentially fucked over their lives, what'd be the consequences? Who's going to attach their name to this negligent act and do time?