4 ms·

I'm not convinced that's where we are heading. LLMs are really good at explaining things ("explain to me like I'm a 5 year old").

baq 5mo ago
Imagine someone in a position of power mandating that LLMs should not be good teachers.
- zx8080 5mo ago
  Some manager at LLM provider: "hey, we can sell 'education' ability as a separate product!".
  - baq 5mo ago
    You jest, but I’m actually convinced education-tuned LLMs are (today) the only way education outcomes can actually improve in the AI era. As is, students are leveraging them for doing homework which makes homework useless, you want and economically need a model which can work as a 1:1 tutor with minimal supervision (and some hardware so lessons aren’t keyboard-driven).
    - zx8080 5mo ago
      > and some hardware so lessons aren’t keyboard-driven). What's wrong with (screen-, probably) keyboard?
      - baq 5mo ago
        Writing with a pen or pencil has better learning outcomes than with a keyboard for neurological reasons. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11943480/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11943480/
        NonHyloMorph 4mo ago
        Most kids can't use a keyboard and never will. Their Apple Pencil scribbles don't seem to make them particularly smarter. Pen&pencil-> create something from (almost) nothing. Stylus input-> subpar slow interface for computation. Ipad data storage above par organisational help (no loosing lousy stuffed in bag paper). I kinda liked the AI to transpose handwritten/drawn notes into digitally orderable artifacts. Seen a couple Show HNs. Are there any advances in the field (preferably OSS or one time purchaseable as alternatively) (To add on to this: the utter physical imprecision of stylis pens is annoying. I can FEEL where a sharpt tip of a tool that is elongating my hand touches a surface and how it moves on a very fine scale/resolution. Probably not a problem for people who have not developed highly sensitive sensomotor perception because they grew up with a lot of flattness in there surrounding and not much plasticity, but: my god are these things clumsy. I always want to reach for a sharpener when i use an apple pencil lol.
        alchemism 4mo ago
        You can buy finer-tipped replacement caps for the mechanical pencil effect. Then there is the second problem: the texture of glass instead of paper.
zx8080 5mo ago
It's enough to make "explanation" a separate "educational" license to make it less broad used. Or disable it in some countries (this is happening already).
- fivestones 4mo ago
  Wait, really? Can you give specifics?
  - zx8080 4mo ago
    Use VPN and try switching countries for yourself. Start from non-EU ones. You'll see.
- Flere-Imsaho 4mo ago
  This is why locally running LLMs must be the future. We don't all need PHD level AIs to answer 99% of our queries, or to teach us a new thing. I'd encourage everyone to learn how to run and deploy local LLMs, even if they are not quite there yet in terms of performance.
ethbr1 5mo ago
There's a big difference between having something explained to you and developing expertise in it. I don't see an AI-as-explainer future where expertise isn't sacrificed en masse. Capitalism rarely supports a currently economically unproductive alternative for future good reasons. The recent AI tech layoffs are a warning sign that corporate leaders will happily shoot their company's (and the future's) expertise to pad next quarter's financials and trust in 90% correct, but much cheaper, AI.
- Beijinger 4mo ago
  "There's a big difference between having something explained to you and developing expertise in it." No, there isn't. You get things explained in University. Then you build on top of this knowledge.
  - ethbr1 4mo ago
    That's not at all how university works. You are explained things (least important part) and then you invest substantial amounts of time in practicing and exercising those new skills. Then, in your junior level jobs, the same cycle repeats. That exercise component isn't going to happen in university with AI in the loop, because AI will be able to shortcut basic practice. And it isn't going to happen in junior level work, because AI will be able to do those jobs more economically efficiently. See previous from HN fp for a more eloquent explanation: https://ergosphere.blog/posts/the-machines-are-fine/ https://ergosphere.blog/posts/the-machines-are-fine/
yen223 5mo ago
A post that lives rent-free in my head points out that a kid who is addicted to chatgpt is going to be more literate - and therefore likely better educated - than a kid who is addicted to tiktok
- sitzkrieg 5mo ago
  and both saw the world through an inherited training/feed bias and censorship, hurray!
  - lazyasciiart 4mo ago
    Just like they always have. There’s a reason religion is mostly inherited.
    - claysmithr 4mo ago
      Everything a human knows has to be learned
  - ssl-3 4mo ago
    Has there ever been a modern time when this wasn't the case? I mean: I can only go back so far, but I remember the 1980s well-enough. At that time, most of the new information that came into my brain from outside was sourced from public schools, newspapers, and the evening news on TV. None of these sources were particularly unfiltered, uncensored, or unbiased. It was always an abbreviated approximation of someone else's idea of the truth.
    - seanmcdirmid 4mo ago
      Even in pre-modern times censorship was the norm. Heck, it wasn’t until the printing press was invented that the powers that be had to start doing it explicitly.

baq 5mo ago

Imagine someone in a position of power mandating that LLMs should not be good teachers.

zx8080 5mo ago
Some manager at LLM provider: "hey, we can sell 'education' ability as a separate product!".
- baq 5mo ago
  You jest, but I’m actually convinced education-tuned LLMs are (today) the only way education outcomes can actually improve in the AI era. As is, students are leveraging them for doing homework which makes homework useless, you want and economically need a model which can work as a 1:1 tutor with minimal supervision (and some hardware so lessons aren’t keyboard-driven).
  - zx8080 5mo ago
    > and some hardware so lessons aren’t keyboard-driven). What's wrong with (screen-, probably) keyboard?
    - baq 5mo ago
      Writing with a pen or pencil has better learning outcomes than with a keyboard for neurological reasons. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11943480/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11943480/
      - NonHyloMorph 4mo ago
        Most kids can't use a keyboard and never will. Their Apple Pencil scribbles don't seem to make them particularly smarter. Pen&pencil-> create something from (almost) nothing. Stylus input-> subpar slow interface for computation. Ipad data storage above par organisational help (no loosing lousy stuffed in bag paper). I kinda liked the AI to transpose handwritten/drawn notes into digitally orderable artifacts. Seen a couple Show HNs. Are there any advances in the field (preferably OSS or one time purchaseable as alternatively) (To add on to this: the utter physical imprecision of stylis pens is annoying. I can FEEL where a sharpt tip of a tool that is elongating my hand touches a surface and how it moves on a very fine scale/resolution. Probably not a problem for people who have not developed highly sensitive sensomotor perception because they grew up with a lot of flattness in there surrounding and not much plasticity, but: my god are these things clumsy. I always want to reach for a sharpener when i use an apple pencil lol.
        alchemism 4mo ago
        You can buy finer-tipped replacement caps for the mechanical pencil effect. Then there is the second problem: the texture of glass instead of paper.

zx8080 5mo ago

It's enough to make "explanation" a separate "educational" license to make it less broad used. Or disable it in some countries (this is happening already).

fivestones 4mo ago
Wait, really? Can you give specifics?
- zx8080 4mo ago
  Use VPN and try switching countries for yourself. Start from non-EU ones. You'll see.
Flere-Imsaho 4mo ago
This is why locally running LLMs must be the future. We don't all need PHD level AIs to answer 99% of our queries, or to teach us a new thing. I'd encourage everyone to learn how to run and deploy local LLMs, even if they are not quite there yet in terms of performance.

ethbr1 5mo ago

There's a big difference between having something explained to you and developing expertise in it. I don't see an AI-as-explainer future where expertise isn't sacrificed en masse. Capitalism rarely supports a currently economically unproductive alternative for future good reasons. The recent AI tech layoffs are a warning sign that corporate leaders will happily shoot their company's (and the future's) expertise to pad next quarter's financials and trust in 90% correct, but much cheaper, AI.

Beijinger 4mo ago
"There's a big difference between having something explained to you and developing expertise in it." No, there isn't. You get things explained in University. Then you build on top of this knowledge.
- ethbr1 4mo ago
  That's not at all how university works. You are explained things (least important part) and then you invest substantial amounts of time in practicing and exercising those new skills. Then, in your junior level jobs, the same cycle repeats. That exercise component isn't going to happen in university with AI in the loop, because AI will be able to shortcut basic practice. And it isn't going to happen in junior level work, because AI will be able to do those jobs more economically efficiently. See previous from HN fp for a more eloquent explanation: https://ergosphere.blog/posts/the-machines-are-fine/ https://ergosphere.blog/posts/the-machines-are-fine/

yen223 5mo ago

A post that lives rent-free in my head points out that a kid who is addicted to chatgpt is going to be more literate - and therefore likely better educated - than a kid who is addicted to tiktok

sitzkrieg 5mo ago
and both saw the world through an inherited training/feed bias and censorship, hurray!
- lazyasciiart 4mo ago
  Just like they always have. There’s a reason religion is mostly inherited.
  - claysmithr 4mo ago
    Everything a human knows has to be learned
- ssl-3 4mo ago
  Has there ever been a modern time when this wasn't the case? I mean: I can only go back so far, but I remember the 1980s well-enough. At that time, most of the new information that came into my brain from outside was sourced from public schools, newspapers, and the evening news on TV. None of these sources were particularly unfiltered, uncensored, or unbiased. It was always an abbreviated approximation of someone else's idea of the truth.
  - seanmcdirmid 4mo ago
    Even in pre-modern times censorship was the norm. Heck, it wasn’t until the printing press was invented that the powers that be had to start doing it explicitly.