4 ms·

> I’ll probably make a lot of enemies by saying this, do people realize that code is just a means to an end? You will need a lot more to make yourself my enemy

> I’ll probably make a lot of enemies by saying this, do people realize that code is just a means to an end? You will need a lot more to make yourself my enemy, but this is the divisor between us... not that you like to use Claude and I don't. I think it depends a lot on where your interest in (self) development lies. My main motivator has always been to understand how things work, and myself being able to create as elegant solutions as my technical role models (in the range from colleagues and mentors to the elders of our field), hopefully even pushing it further. Having the LLM just create the product robs me of that, or at least of the most rewarding parts of that. And that's why I don't like to use it. Different people are driven by different things, I don't think either trumps the other in the objective sense, we're just wired differently.

bontaq 4mo ago
That's well said and where I ended up as well. This whole thing did reveal that a lot of people really never enjoyed programming at all and only saw it as some irritating necessity. I don't really like that crowds presumption that everyone else disliked it too. For me working through the programming part is the understanding and solving. Programming languages are pretty beautiful and encourage different ways of thinking. Hopefully we can understand it and contribute.
DonsDiscountGas 4mo ago
> My main motivator has always been to understand how things work Which things, specifically? I got started programming in order to control scientific instruments and analyze the data I collected. I care about the systems I'm studying. I don't really care much about the software I'm programming. As OP said it's a means to an end. I think you're right that people on HN are generally more curious but it doesn't have to be curiosity about every single element of software. We don't write assembly code anymore either, half of software is about making software easier and faster to write.
- rakel_rakel 4mo ago
  > Which things, specifically? Low level systems programming mostly. Embedded systems, *nix userland programs, API and library design, sometimes including writing assembly although in very small fractions.
juanre 4mo ago
I am with you. Over the last 40 years I've spent a great many hours enjoying the process of creating software. I did a PhD in mechanical engineering, but the ductility of programming won me over. I started following PG when I read his two Lisp books many years ago, and some of his examples (implement OOP in one chapter!) blew my mind. And they enabled my first company. These days, however, my time is spent managing agents. I have lost the joy of craftsmanship. I don't spend my day in emacs anymore. But I am learning to enjoy it. Maybe because I have always had a utilitarian streak, and I actually care for the ends, so husbanding incredibly efficient means is thrilling. I am actually having fun.
metalspot 4mo ago
> people are driven by different things This is important to understand. I have been coding since I was 11 when I got my first C64, and it is a genuine passion for me, but I also love working with LLM tooling. One of the biggest things for me is that after decades of sitting in front of a computer I have chronic back and wrist pain that makes it impossible to do the long deep focus sessions that were normal when I was younger. Using AI tooling to handle all of the procedural tasks (running tests, debugging, managing git, etc) dramatically reduces the physical strain of programming, and allows for a much healthier workflow, with regular short breaks.
- rakel_rakel 4mo ago
  That's awesome, I'm happy for you finding such great value in it! Not sure if it's important or not, but for the sake of OP's discussion I note that your value is not necessarily tied to "speed of execution".

bontaq 4mo ago

That's well said and where I ended up as well. This whole thing did reveal that a lot of people really never enjoyed programming at all and only saw it as some irritating necessity. I don't really like that crowds presumption that everyone else disliked it too. For me working through the programming part is the understanding and solving. Programming languages are pretty beautiful and encourage different ways of thinking. Hopefully we can understand it and contribute.

DonsDiscountGas 4mo ago

> My main motivator has always been to understand how things work Which things, specifically? I got started programming in order to control scientific instruments and analyze the data I collected. I care about the systems I'm studying. I don't really care much about the software I'm programming. As OP said it's a means to an end. I think you're right that people on HN are generally more curious but it doesn't have to be curiosity about every single element of software. We don't write assembly code anymore either, half of software is about making software easier and faster to write.

rakel_rakel 4mo ago
> Which things, specifically? Low level systems programming mostly. Embedded systems, *nix userland programs, API and library design, sometimes including writing assembly although in very small fractions.

juanre 4mo ago

I am with you. Over the last 40 years I've spent a great many hours enjoying the process of creating software. I did a PhD in mechanical engineering, but the ductility of programming won me over. I started following PG when I read his two Lisp books many years ago, and some of his examples (implement OOP in one chapter!) blew my mind. And they enabled my first company. These days, however, my time is spent managing agents. I have lost the joy of craftsmanship. I don't spend my day in emacs anymore. But I am learning to enjoy it. Maybe because I have always had a utilitarian streak, and I actually care for the ends, so husbanding incredibly efficient means is thrilling. I am actually having fun.

metalspot 4mo ago

> people are driven by different things This is important to understand. I have been coding since I was 11 when I got my first C64, and it is a genuine passion for me, but I also love working with LLM tooling. One of the biggest things for me is that after decades of sitting in front of a computer I have chronic back and wrist pain that makes it impossible to do the long deep focus sessions that were normal when I was younger. Using AI tooling to handle all of the procedural tasks (running tests, debugging, managing git, etc) dramatically reduces the physical strain of programming, and allows for a much healthier workflow, with regular short breaks.

rakel_rakel 4mo ago
That's awesome, I'm happy for you finding such great value in it! Not sure if it's important or not, but for the sake of OP's discussion I note that your value is not necessarily tied to "speed of execution".