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Pre-Modern Armies for Worldbuilders, Part I: Why They Fight
- vishnugupta 4mo ago"I have written this maxim a few different ways, but it is worth writing again: no army can help but recreate its civilian social structures on the battlefield." Interesting to see Conway's law show up here. Companies tend to ship their org structure in a product.
- asdff 4mo agoReminds me of the whole "Python is for Brahmins" stuff at Microsoft India office.
- ralfd 4mo agoWhat? Can you explain?
- ZiiS 4mo agoThe was a lawsuit that they only allowed favoured castes to use Python.
- orsorna 4mo agoThe exact quote "python is for brahmins" brings up top links on incels.is and 4chan, so perhaps OC's character is something worth dismissing.
- quibono 4mo agoThis is a bizarre reply? IIRC there was a law suit involved
- margalabargala 4mo agoThat's how the story goes, yes. It's satirical fiction. There was no lawsuit, just blogs saying there was. https://www.m9.news/social-media-viral/viral-microsoft-caste-bias-claim-satire-fact-check/ https://www.m9.news/social-media-viral/viral-microsoft-caste...
- vishnugupta 4mo agoI think it’s about software engineers, who are supposed to be impervious about effects of caste structures and hierarchy, judging programming languages from the caste lens. That is my interpretation, please don’t hold me against it
- rufdhxd 4mo agoSomeone once told me Indian software companies deliberately hold "secondary" staff like support etc under worse conditions than engineers (smaller monitors, less windows on walls, etc), because there was some law that said if they would get the same treatment, they would be eligible for same pay. So they made sure the treatment was obviously inferior. So, no idea but the Python restriction might have been only one more deliberate hardship on some poor folks. If someone knows something more accurate, happy to learn.
- vishnugupta 4mo agoLooks like it was a satire? I couldn’t find any authoritative sources on it. https://www.m9.news/social-media-viral/viral-microsoft-caste-bias-claim-satire-fact-check/ https://www.m9.news/social-media-viral/viral-microsoft-caste...
- bjackman 4mo agoI think Conway's law is more interesting. It seems natural that networks of human relationships would mirror each other when the same groups of humans translate themselves into a new context. Whereas the structure of technological products is a "different thing" than the human relationships that created it, it's less obvious that it would translate across that boundary.
- xtiansimon 4mo ago> “structure of technological products” Unless the technology is glued together with ad-hoc systems using email, slack, Dropbox, and the like. At least that’s my experience in small businesses.
- baybal2 4mo ago[dead]
- jhbadger 4mo ago"it is very hard to square the circle whereby coexisting in alliance with the Klingon Empire as we see it is the right and moral thing for the Federation to do." You have to understand that the Klingons in TOS were a metaphor for the Soviets/Russians and TNG was reflecting the 1980s/1990s hope that democracy was taking root there and by working with them they would be Westernized.
- RobotToaster 4mo agoIt's also stated in enterprise that Klingons do have other castes, the warrior caste is just the most dominant. (Although the caste system doesn't seem strictly hereditary)
- jitl 4mo agois it really that far fetched that instead of bikes, football, and basketball, klingon society decided to give all their kids batleths, so everyone grows up really into it?
- red_admiral 4mo agoThat sort of happened in a brief period in mediaeval England when they gave everyone longbows.
- tolciho 4mo agoJapanese militarism was a thing recently, so the kids got eveything but the batleth.
- Morromist 4mo agoOne of my favorite dynamics: Warrior class that really kicks butt, takes control over the state and then slowly becomes obsolete but is so embedded in the social structure that it just sticks around sucking up vast resources for hundreds of years. I've read the Ottoman Empire had this happen with the Janissaries, but there are lots of other instances of the military becoming a colossal useless but dangerous parasite, even lots of current-day ones.
- RobotToaster 4mo agoSparta, their entire civilization basically atrophied because of it.
- usrnm 4mo agoSparta was built on slavery, their obsession with war was necessary to keep their slaves in check and deal with constant uprisings, it was very practical for their way of life.
- altmanaltman 4mo agoIts also because they built it entirely on slaves and refused citizenship to most. 300 was an entertaining movie but it left out the slavery that was central to Sparta.
- lukan 4mo ago70-85% of the spartan population were slaves. It takes a very brutal approach to keep things that way, so yes, 300 was rather not so much about the general concept of political freedom. Only about the freedom of one class to keep being slave masters and not also become subordinate to a new master on top.
- hermitcrab 4mo ago[dead]
- throwiudjd 4mo agoNo, it was because of the low fertility rate. Most powerful class in Sparta were rich widows, even kings had to borrow money from them.
- paradoxyl 4mo agoI'm sorry, this is just sententious bloviation. The sources are so thin, there's no reason to go around imputing all these fantastical ideas that somehow benefit your own beliefs. It's just boring and insipid to watch people fall into this trap over and over.
- SJC_Hacker 4mo agoAgreed, the article contained a lot of speculation and not many historical examples. It was more about what the author thought “made sense” than what reality was. It was also quite long winded. Probably could have been summarized to maybe 3 reasons. Oddly enough I don’t see “money” mentioned, at least not simply, and that should probably be reason #1
- gspetr 4mo agoYou're right about reason #1. And you've probably heard about strong contenders for #2 and #3. There's a famous quote attributed to the Italian military commander Gian Giacomo Trivulzio in 1499. When asked by King Louis XII of France what preparations were needed to invade the Duchy of Milan, Trivulzio responded: "To carry out war, three things are necessary: money, money, and yet more money."
- jameshart 4mo agoI guess it’s so long-winded you never made it to the four paragraph section, about 20 paragraphs and two subheadings in, about economic motivations for recruitment? > The first place most modern folks’ mind goes, of course, is to pattern this task off of their own jobs and so to assume that these fellows are under arms because they are paid to be, which I am going to term the employment principle.
- ggm 4mo agoIf you think its quite long winded taken note it's title includes PART 1
- red_admiral 4mo ago
- Simon_O_Rourke 4mo agoAnother great post by one of the nations best public intellectuals.
- devindotcom 4mo agoI was just exposed to this banger if you're an appreciator but not aware https://xcancel.com/BretDevereaux/status/1742957031353466903 https://xcancel.com/BretDevereaux/status/1742957031353466903
- Balgair 4mo agoI love Bret. His outreach work is exactly my cup of tea. It is unfortunate that the Ivory Tower can't recognize it though. His path to tenure is closed at this point. Yet any school would have a gem if they prompted him. His star really is rising and his reach is widening. I can;t wait until he gives up the ghost and decides to go to some think tank or another and really makes the dough.