4 ms·

And do you think this is bad?

MontyCarloHall 4mo ago
I never made any value judgment on whether it’s bad or good. “Hedonism” is simply the focus of individual pleasure and happiness above all else, and everything I listed is an example of things that lead to individual happiness that are antithetical to having many children.
- aerodexis 4mo ago
  Having children is profoundly more fulfilling and pleasurable than the surface-level pleasures you listed. "hedonism" doesn't create a lack of children, if anything people are not hedonistic enough, but for economic reasons pursue cheap low-quality pleasure over high-quality pleasure.
  - trumpdong 4mo ago
    Not to mention that everyone finds unprotected sex pretty darn hedonistic.
- tasuki 4mo ago
  Why do you think people have children then? Is that not (perhaps a bad) attempt at hedonism? I've heard (esp women) say "I can't be happy unless I have children". Then they have children, and... it often turns into "why isn't the father helping more".
bryanlarsen 4mo ago
Hedonism is bad because: - hedonic pleasures are adaptive. The first time you experience them is incredible. The 1000th time, much less so. - chasing hedonic pleasures is counter-productive. Studies show that people who actively seek out hedonic pleasure are less happy than those that don't. OTOH, eudaimonic pleasure (aka fulfilment, satisfaction) is much more durable. Work, hobbies, charity work, and children are avenues towards fulfilment. Far too many rely on work to provide it for them, but that's counter-productive for most.
- lukeschlather 4mo ago
  I wonder how those who have experienced the pleasure of having 1000 children experience that compared to the first one.
  - Supernaut 4mo ago
    It's a shame we can't ask Genghis Khan for his thoughts on the matter.
- Daishiman 4mo ago
  > OTOH, eudaimonic pleasure (aka fulfilment, satisfaction) is much more durable. I am not actually sure that this is consistent across most people who have had children.
  - bryanlarsen 4mo ago
    Certainly not. It's much more likely to be successful than getting it from work, though.
- Noumenon72 4mo ago
  Happiness is the emotional reward for eudaimonia. Since I mostly reject eudaimonia as people and genes offering you carrots for doing what they want, not what you want, I naturally don't feel happiness like someone who's like "I'm winning, life is meaningful, others think well of me". I seek out hedonic pleasure because I think it's more real than happiness.

I never made any value judgment on whether it’s bad or good. “Hedonism” is simply the focus of individual pleasure and happiness above all else, and everything I listed is an example of things that lead to individual happiness that are antithetical to having many children.

aerodexis 4mo ago
Having children is profoundly more fulfilling and pleasurable than the surface-level pleasures you listed. "hedonism" doesn't create a lack of children, if anything people are not hedonistic enough, but for economic reasons pursue cheap low-quality pleasure over high-quality pleasure.
- trumpdong 4mo ago
  Not to mention that everyone finds unprotected sex pretty darn hedonistic.
tasuki 4mo ago
Why do you think people have children then? Is that not (perhaps a bad) attempt at hedonism? I've heard (esp women) say "I can't be happy unless I have children". Then they have children, and... it often turns into "why isn't the father helping more".

bryanlarsen 4mo ago

Hedonism is bad because: - hedonic pleasures are adaptive. The first time you experience them is incredible. The 1000th time, much less so. - chasing hedonic pleasures is counter-productive. Studies show that people who actively seek out hedonic pleasure are less happy than those that don't. OTOH, eudaimonic pleasure (aka fulfilment, satisfaction) is much more durable. Work, hobbies, charity work, and children are avenues towards fulfilment. Far too many rely on work to provide it for them, but that's counter-productive for most.

lukeschlather 4mo ago
I wonder how those who have experienced the pleasure of having 1000 children experience that compared to the first one.
- Supernaut 4mo ago
  It's a shame we can't ask Genghis Khan for his thoughts on the matter.
Daishiman 4mo ago
> OTOH, eudaimonic pleasure (aka fulfilment, satisfaction) is much more durable. I am not actually sure that this is consistent across most people who have had children.
- bryanlarsen 4mo ago
  Certainly not. It's much more likely to be successful than getting it from work, though.
Noumenon72 4mo ago
Happiness is the emotional reward for eudaimonia. Since I mostly reject eudaimonia as people and genes offering you carrots for doing what they want, not what you want, I naturally don't feel happiness like someone who's like "I'm winning, life is meaningful, others think well of me". I seek out hedonic pleasure because I think it's more real than happiness.