4 ms·

Yeah I was thinking about Simon Wilson's "lethal trifecta"[0] in the context of OpenClaw style "general purpose" AI agents, where people just gave it access to

by andai 5mo ago

Yeah I was thinking about Simon Wilson's "lethal trifecta"[0] in the context of OpenClaw style "general purpose" AI agents, where people just gave it access to their full hard drive, gmail account, etc. I was thinking you can't make the chance of catastrophic failure zero (we still hear about "Claude deleted my home folder"), but you can definitely limit the blast radius. You can't get the risk to zero. But the opportunity cost of not playing the game is rising. So you accept some level of risk. My personal take here is "why screw around with containers and virtualization when a used ThinkPad is $50". Just give it its own machine. Then it can blow it up all it wants. (Or a $3 VPS, as the case may be :) [0] The lethal trifecta for AI agents: private data, untrusted content, and external communication - https://simonwillison.net/2025/Jun/16/the-lethal-trifecta/ https://simonwillison.net/2025/Jun/16/the-lethal-trifecta/

koolba 5mo ago
> Then it can blow it up all it wants. (Or a $3 VPS, as the case may be :) Just make sure it doesn’t have ssh access to any other machines!
charcircuit 5mo ago
All of ecommerce is built on top of encryption with a non 0 chance of being cracked. The risk is much smaller than the benefit so people are willing to use it and then deal with whatever potential fraud comes from encryption being broken separately. Technically a merchant could require meeting in person to exchange a OTP to avoid this and make it 0 but it is not worth it and you will get out competed by other businesses willing to take on a marginally higher amount of risk to unlock a lot of utility for the user.
chrisweekly 5mo ago
Is a used Thinkpad really a viable part of your AI workflow? (And is that really a better solution than eg smolmachines microvms?)
zaptheimpaler 5mo ago
I tried the VPS briefly, it didn't really solve anything for me. The personal assistant agent is only as useful as the data & tools it has, that's where the real risk is. Separate box gives you isolated FS but docker also does that very easily.
- jon-wood 5mo ago
  Docker is not a security boundary. It never has been, but given recent demonstrations of container escapes its even less of one than it ever was. If you want to properly contain a process it needs to be running in a VM of its own, or you need to accept that there's a risk of it escaping and ending up with more access than you planned.
altmanaltman 5mo ago
> But the opportunity cost of not playing the game is rising The opportunity cost of not using OpenClaw? I don't think it's that foundational yet that there is an opportunity cost to not using it. Most people have no purpose for a general-purpose AI both in their personal lives and at work, there is no sense trying out OpenClaw when you don't even know what it'll do.
e12e 5mo ago
Wiping out a VM, server or workstation should not really be a problem - just restore from backup. Silently corrupting files, that goes undiscovered until after backup window closes, and data exfiltration are the immediate, serious risks.
barrkel 5mo ago
Containment of the execution environment isn't really the issue. It's API tokens that were designed with coarse permission scoping so agents get more power than they need. The risk isn't that your machine gets hacked. It's that your email gets deleted, or forwarded to someone who uses it to break into your other accounts via password recovery.
- shivyadavus 5mo ago
  [flagged]
- KaiShips 5mo ago
  [flagged]

by andai 5mo ago

koolba 5mo ago

> Then it can blow it up all it wants. (Or a $3 VPS, as the case may be :) Just make sure it doesn’t have ssh access to any other machines!

charcircuit 5mo ago

All of ecommerce is built on top of encryption with a non 0 chance of being cracked. The risk is much smaller than the benefit so people are willing to use it and then deal with whatever potential fraud comes from encryption being broken separately. Technically a merchant could require meeting in person to exchange a OTP to avoid this and make it 0 but it is not worth it and you will get out competed by other businesses willing to take on a marginally higher amount of risk to unlock a lot of utility for the user.

chrisweekly 5mo ago

Is a used Thinkpad really a viable part of your AI workflow? (And is that really a better solution than eg smolmachines microvms?)

zaptheimpaler 5mo ago

I tried the VPS briefly, it didn't really solve anything for me. The personal assistant agent is only as useful as the data & tools it has, that's where the real risk is. Separate box gives you isolated FS but docker also does that very easily.

jon-wood 5mo ago
Docker is not a security boundary. It never has been, but given recent demonstrations of container escapes its even less of one than it ever was. If you want to properly contain a process it needs to be running in a VM of its own, or you need to accept that there's a risk of it escaping and ending up with more access than you planned.

altmanaltman 5mo ago

> But the opportunity cost of not playing the game is rising The opportunity cost of not using OpenClaw? I don't think it's that foundational yet that there is an opportunity cost to not using it. Most people have no purpose for a general-purpose AI both in their personal lives and at work, there is no sense trying out OpenClaw when you don't even know what it'll do.

e12e 5mo ago

Wiping out a VM, server or workstation should not really be a problem - just restore from backup. Silently corrupting files, that goes undiscovered until after backup window closes, and data exfiltration are the immediate, serious risks.

barrkel 5mo ago

Containment of the execution environment isn't really the issue. It's API tokens that were designed with coarse permission scoping so agents get more power than they need. The risk isn't that your machine gets hacked. It's that your email gets deleted, or forwarded to someone who uses it to break into your other accounts via password recovery.

shivyadavus 5mo ago
[flagged]
KaiShips 5mo ago
[flagged]