4 ms·

How is one certain bedrock data isn’t being shuttled to external providers?

by rho138 5mo ago

cortesoft 5mo ago
Contracts and the force of law?
- ai_fry_ur_brain 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 5mo ago
    Actually yes, when it’s other huge corporations holding them accountable. It’s only when politicians who are much more cheaply bought get involved that creates problems. When the other side has a significant war chest to combat you with, suddenly behavior improves
  - ch4s3 5mo ago
    Any sufficiently large company will be prepared to fight this out in court where Amazon would eventually lose.
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
  - harrall 5mo ago
    Laws and rules don’t hold anyone accountable. Anyone can say anything and then break that trust the next second. Instead you trust your best friend because you have known them for 15 years and seen them in enough situations. It’s long term observation and predictability they ultimately gives trust. AWS has been around 20 years and has never once shown a sign that that they would sell customer data. Could they still try? Sure, in the same way they my friend who hates seafood his entire life could suddenly flip 180 and love it. Yeah I guess it’s possible.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
avianlyric 5mo ago
Contractual obligation, external third party audits, and above all, AWS’s reputation. AWS isn’t going to risk their reputation, and thus huge chunks of their business, just so a few AI labs can get some extra training data. That’s an insane risk with zero upside for AWS. AWS knows full well they will make insane quantities of cash without breaking legal contracts with companies who pay them billions each year for infra.
jofzar 5mo ago
What other people are saying, but also because Amazon does not want to fuck around in this space. They don't want the legal fight or the reputational damage that would come with it.
- trollbridge 5mo ago
  They also don't really stand to benefit from doing so, unlike basically everyone else in this space. They have access to a ridiculous amount of private customer data and so far have not shown any predilection to misusing that access.
  - xingped 5mo ago
    To take an easy example that has actually had lawsuits I can link to, you must be unfamiliar with the lawsuits against Amazon for misusing sellers' data in order to undercut them with their own products... https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/13-bln-uk-lawsuit-accuses-amazon-misusing-small-sellers-data-2024-06-06/ https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/13-bln-uk-lawsuit-acc... There's zero reason to "trust" Amazon about anything. (And yes, I know the retail and AWS sides of the company are different, but it's still the same company. The same rot is always there, just shuffled around.)
    - bijowo1676 5mo ago
      this is not related to AWS, but merely to amazon's retail business and their sellers know and sign up for the deal when they sell via amazon. every single retail company does this, they allow suppliers to sell the product using retails's infrastructure, and then retailer turns around and create private label products using sales data (Costco's Kirkland Signature, Walmart's Great Value, are just some examples)
      - fragmede 5mo ago
        Yes, but Kirkland's signature comes from the same factory. If I'm the factory owner and Costco vis going to guarantee me sales albeit at a slightly lower margin, so long as I slap a different sticker on it, that's different than from Amazon finding out which of my products sells best and then gets someone else to rip it off so I don't get paid anything.
650REDHAIR 5mo ago
Bezos and Altman pinky-promised and are super trustworthy.
- azinman2 5mo ago
  Seems like trusting AWS with your data has been a good bet for a long time. They wouldn’t have the size/scale otherwise.
- SXX 5mo ago
  Bezos is not in AI gold rush. AWS is shovel rental. Also unlike Altman they are trustworthy - a lot of Amazon competitors do run on AWS for decades.
- glzone1 5mo ago
  You really don't understand what AWS offers if you think this is what is getting them workloads (including competitors and highly sensitive govt workloads).
- wmf 5mo ago
  Andy Jassy is actually trustworthy.
nh2 5mo ago
In contrast to Microsoft, OpenAI, and Anthropic, AWS has never done anything close to sneaking in unwanted training opt-outs after the fact. They are the only ones I trust not to do that so far. And their terms are extremely clear on that, no fuzzy language. Exactly what we want to see. So we use Bedrock.
kopirgan 5mo ago
Having worked with lots of companies, I can say that trust is there. But true test is competitors of Amazon. Does Walmart use them? Ebay? Although not in exact same business.
33MHz-i486 5mo ago
they’re crap on a lot dimensions of how they treat customers but data privacy/security is one thats taken pretty seriously at AWS, perhaps owing to the massive reputational damage that would result if they played loose with it.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
zmmmmm 5mo ago
They could be lying with all this: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/bedrock/latest/userguide/data-protection.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/bedrock/latest/userguide/data-pr... But it seems tremendously unlikely with how explicit they are being with it. It is clearly one of the top selling features for the service.
- rho138 5mo ago
  The only response with an actual link to the docs, thanks homie! Edit: From your source - “You are responsible for maintaining control over your content that is hosted on this infrastructure.” So they don’t.

How is one certain bedrock data isn’t being shuttled to external providers?

by rho138 5mo ago

How is one certain bedrock data isn’t being shuttled to external providers?

cortesoft 5mo ago

Contracts and the force of law?

ai_fry_ur_brain 5mo ago
[flagged]
- SOLAR_FIELDS 5mo ago
  Actually yes, when it’s other huge corporations holding them accountable. It’s only when politicians who are much more cheaply bought get involved that creates problems. When the other side has a significant war chest to combat you with, suddenly behavior improves
- ch4s3 5mo ago
  Any sufficiently large company will be prepared to fight this out in court where Amazon would eventually lose.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
- harrall 5mo ago
  Laws and rules don’t hold anyone accountable. Anyone can say anything and then break that trust the next second. Instead you trust your best friend because you have known them for 15 years and seen them in enough situations. It’s long term observation and predictability they ultimately gives trust. AWS has been around 20 years and has never once shown a sign that that they would sell customer data. Could they still try? Sure, in the same way they my friend who hates seafood his entire life could suddenly flip 180 and love it. Yeah I guess it’s possible.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]

avianlyric 5mo ago

Contractual obligation, external third party audits, and above all, AWS’s reputation. AWS isn’t going to risk their reputation, and thus huge chunks of their business, just so a few AI labs can get some extra training data. That’s an insane risk with zero upside for AWS. AWS knows full well they will make insane quantities of cash without breaking legal contracts with companies who pay them billions each year for infra.

jofzar 5mo ago

What other people are saying, but also because Amazon does not want to fuck around in this space. They don't want the legal fight or the reputational damage that would come with it.

trollbridge 5mo ago
They also don't really stand to benefit from doing so, unlike basically everyone else in this space. They have access to a ridiculous amount of private customer data and so far have not shown any predilection to misusing that access.
- xingped 5mo ago
  To take an easy example that has actually had lawsuits I can link to, you must be unfamiliar with the lawsuits against Amazon for misusing sellers' data in order to undercut them with their own products... https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/13-bln-uk-lawsuit-accuses-amazon-misusing-small-sellers-data-2024-06-06/ https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/13-bln-uk-lawsuit-acc... There's zero reason to "trust" Amazon about anything. (And yes, I know the retail and AWS sides of the company are different, but it's still the same company. The same rot is always there, just shuffled around.)
  - bijowo1676 5mo ago
    this is not related to AWS, but merely to amazon's retail business and their sellers know and sign up for the deal when they sell via amazon. every single retail company does this, they allow suppliers to sell the product using retails's infrastructure, and then retailer turns around and create private label products using sales data (Costco's Kirkland Signature, Walmart's Great Value, are just some examples)
    - fragmede 5mo ago
      Yes, but Kirkland's signature comes from the same factory. If I'm the factory owner and Costco vis going to guarantee me sales albeit at a slightly lower margin, so long as I slap a different sticker on it, that's different than from Amazon finding out which of my products sells best and then gets someone else to rip it off so I don't get paid anything.

650REDHAIR 5mo ago

Bezos and Altman pinky-promised and are super trustworthy.

azinman2 5mo ago
Seems like trusting AWS with your data has been a good bet for a long time. They wouldn’t have the size/scale otherwise.
SXX 5mo ago
Bezos is not in AI gold rush. AWS is shovel rental. Also unlike Altman they are trustworthy - a lot of Amazon competitors do run on AWS for decades.
glzone1 5mo ago
You really don't understand what AWS offers if you think this is what is getting them workloads (including competitors and highly sensitive govt workloads).
wmf 5mo ago
Andy Jassy is actually trustworthy.

nh2 5mo ago

In contrast to Microsoft, OpenAI, and Anthropic, AWS has never done anything close to sneaking in unwanted training opt-outs after the fact. They are the only ones I trust not to do that so far. And their terms are extremely clear on that, no fuzzy language. Exactly what we want to see. So we use Bedrock.

kopirgan 5mo ago

Having worked with lots of companies, I can say that trust is there. But true test is competitors of Amazon. Does Walmart use them? Ebay? Although not in exact same business.

33MHz-i486 5mo ago

they’re crap on a lot dimensions of how they treat customers but data privacy/security is one thats taken pretty seriously at AWS, perhaps owing to the massive reputational damage that would result if they played loose with it.

deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]

zmmmmm 5mo ago

They could be lying with all this: https://docs.aws.amazon.com/bedrock/latest/userguide/data-protection.html https://docs.aws.amazon.com/bedrock/latest/userguide/data-pr... But it seems tremendously unlikely with how explicit they are being with it. It is clearly one of the top selling features for the service.

rho138 5mo ago
The only response with an actual link to the docs, thanks homie! Edit: From your source - “You are responsible for maintaining control over your content that is hosted on this infrastructure.” So they don’t.