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Before we look all high and mighty on this.. Just a reminder "gay panic defense." is still used in court today in the USA to justify killing of gays. The most

Before we look all high and mighty on this.. Just a reminder "gay panic defense." is still used in court today in the USA to justify killing of gays. The most famous case was when Lucien Carr killed David Kammerer. The just called it an honor slaying. No person should ever be killed, and it should never be justified because its the social norm.

Hnrobert42 4mo ago
Yeah, but what about ...
kazinator 4mo ago
Doesn't work that way in Canada. In 2010, a 37-year-old male got 6 years for sucker-punching a 62-year-old male who made advances toward him in bar in the Vancouver west end (lotsa gays there). The 62-year-old fell, hit his head, and died as a result. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/gay-basher-gets-6-years-for-sucker-punch-1.893544 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/gay-basher-g... 6 years is not a lot, but it's the same length of sentence handed around the same time to a random murderer who killed a welder from Thailand. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/killer-of-thai-welder-gets-6-years-1.1064550 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/killer-of-thai-welde... From these we know two things: a human life is not worth a fuck in Canada, but at least gay and non-gay is about the same.
- brailsafe 4mo ago
  Best way to shorten a murder sentence seems to be to just do it with your car. It's crazy what people seem to get away even if they're clearly deranged, drunk, and blowing through red lights etc..
  - kazinator 4mo ago
    Oh, especially now in British Columbia with "no fault insurance". At-fault drivers cannot be sued by victims, unless they are convicted of a crime in connection with the incident. If you can make the vehicular homicide look like an accident, you are scot-free, except for increased insurance premiums. No criminal charges, and no civil case to face.
    - brailsafe 4mo ago
      Yep, this incident comes to mind: https://globalnews.ca/news/10920612/vancouver-hit-and-run-fatal-sentence/ https://globalnews.ca/news/10920612/vancouver-hit-and-run-fa... 152km/hr in a 60 zone, drunk, on film saying "I ain't stopping for no red lights", deliberately sped up as he was about the hit the guy, didn't stop afterward, left the scene, then called in to falsely claim the car was stolen, and had been previously convicted of sexual assault. 5 years less time served, 5 years after with no license. I guess the only way you could really top that list is if he continued on to say "hey lets hit that guy and see how far he goes"
1-more 4mo ago
You are allowed to try to use the defense in some places, but there's no guarantee that it will work. It is banned in DC and 30 states: California, Illinois, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Nevada, New York, New Jersey, Washington, D.C., Georgia, Wisconsin, Washington, Pennsylvania, Colorado, Texas, Virginia, Maryland, Oregon, Vermont, Florida, Iowa, New Mexico, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Nebraska, Arkansas, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Delaware, Michigan. Put another way, it's banned for about 76% of the US population. Does it actually work a lot when it is used? Did it ever? Note that the case you're referencing is from 1944, for instance.
- kazinator 4mo ago
  1944 is the year they hanged George Stinney in South Carolina, a 14 year old black boy falsely convicted of murder, using about zero evidence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stinney https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stinney
- fennecbutt 4mo ago
  I think the point is that THE DEFENSE STILL EXISTS IN SOME CAPACITY. As a gay guy I've had str8 ppl tell me "you can still go to Egypt just you know, don't be gay". It's infuriating, depressing, and so much more. Honestly, sometimes I kind of understand the tiniest bit of the queer peeps that were getting extra spicy like last year. Society is an amorphous blob of averages and if you don't fit into the average...well.
Redoubts 4mo ago
> Just a reminder "gay panic defense." is still used in court today in the USA Can you cite a case in the last 5 years? Can you cite a case in the last 20 years where the jury didn’t roll their eyes?
- fennecbutt 4mo ago
  So why not outlaw it then? Should be easy if it's doesn't get used then there's no reason to have it hanging around right?
  - rationalist 4mo ago
    Let's outlaw people using deathrays shot from spaceships too /s Do we need to make a law for every hypothetical thing?
readthenotes1 4mo ago
80 years ago? Thanks for noting how far the US has come

Hnrobert42 4mo ago

Yeah, but what about ...

kazinator 4mo ago

Doesn't work that way in Canada. In 2010, a 37-year-old male got 6 years for sucker-punching a 62-year-old male who made advances toward him in bar in the Vancouver west end (lotsa gays there). The 62-year-old fell, hit his head, and died as a result. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/gay-basher-gets-6-years-for-sucker-punch-1.893544 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/gay-basher-g... 6 years is not a lot, but it's the same length of sentence handed around the same time to a random murderer who killed a welder from Thailand. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/killer-of-thai-welder-gets-6-years-1.1064550 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/killer-of-thai-welde... From these we know two things: a human life is not worth a fuck in Canada, but at least gay and non-gay is about the same.

brailsafe 4mo ago
Best way to shorten a murder sentence seems to be to just do it with your car. It's crazy what people seem to get away even if they're clearly deranged, drunk, and blowing through red lights etc..
- kazinator 4mo ago
  Oh, especially now in British Columbia with "no fault insurance". At-fault drivers cannot be sued by victims, unless they are convicted of a crime in connection with the incident. If you can make the vehicular homicide look like an accident, you are scot-free, except for increased insurance premiums. No criminal charges, and no civil case to face.
  - brailsafe 4mo ago
    Yep, this incident comes to mind: https://globalnews.ca/news/10920612/vancouver-hit-and-run-fatal-sentence/ https://globalnews.ca/news/10920612/vancouver-hit-and-run-fa... 152km/hr in a 60 zone, drunk, on film saying "I ain't stopping for no red lights", deliberately sped up as he was about the hit the guy, didn't stop afterward, left the scene, then called in to falsely claim the car was stolen, and had been previously convicted of sexual assault. 5 years less time served, 5 years after with no license. I guess the only way you could really top that list is if he continued on to say "hey lets hit that guy and see how far he goes"

1-more 4mo ago

You are allowed to try to use the defense in some places, but there's no guarantee that it will work. It is banned in DC and 30 states: California, Illinois, Rhode Island, Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Nevada, New York, New Jersey, Washington, D.C., Georgia, Wisconsin, Washington, Pennsylvania, Colorado, Texas, Virginia, Maryland, Oregon, Vermont, Florida, Iowa, New Mexico, Minnesota, Massachusetts, Nebraska, Arkansas, North Carolina, New Hampshire, Delaware, Michigan. Put another way, it's banned for about 76% of the US population. Does it actually work a lot when it is used? Did it ever? Note that the case you're referencing is from 1944, for instance.

kazinator 4mo ago
1944 is the year they hanged George Stinney in South Carolina, a 14 year old black boy falsely convicted of murder, using about zero evidence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stinney https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Stinney
fennecbutt 4mo ago
I think the point is that THE DEFENSE STILL EXISTS IN SOME CAPACITY. As a gay guy I've had str8 ppl tell me "you can still go to Egypt just you know, don't be gay". It's infuriating, depressing, and so much more. Honestly, sometimes I kind of understand the tiniest bit of the queer peeps that were getting extra spicy like last year. Society is an amorphous blob of averages and if you don't fit into the average...well.

Redoubts 4mo ago

> Just a reminder "gay panic defense." is still used in court today in the USA Can you cite a case in the last 5 years? Can you cite a case in the last 20 years where the jury didn’t roll their eyes?

fennecbutt 4mo ago
So why not outlaw it then? Should be easy if it's doesn't get used then there's no reason to have it hanging around right?
- rationalist 4mo ago
  Let's outlaw people using deathrays shot from spaceships too /s Do we need to make a law for every hypothetical thing?

readthenotes1 4mo ago

80 years ago? Thanks for noting how far the US has come