4 ms·

Note that Ellipse/modelfkeyboards is notorious in the keyboard community for poor quality control and support. The keyboards often come misaligned or damaged in

by ndiddy 4mo ago

Note that Ellipse/modelfkeyboards is notorious in the keyboard community for poor quality control and support. The keyboards often come misaligned or damaged in shipping, and it's up to you to fix them. I'm not sure about their beam spring keyboards, but their Model F keyboards come without keycaps installed, meaning that the keys haven't even been tested to actuate properly before the keyboard is shipped. If you have the money and free time, you can usually turn what you receive into a working product with enough tweaking. You just have to keep in mind that you'll be paying over $400 for a keyboard that may arrive broken, and if it does you will have as close to no warranty as what's legally possible. If you dig around on forums and in comments you can find a bunch of examples of this, but here's a decent summary: https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Model_F_Labs https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Model_F_Labs

fooqux 4mo ago
Thanks for posting this. I've been looking at getting one but this has made me pause.
- ndiddy 4mo ago
  Yeah it's a shame because his keyboards are genuinely good, I just find it strange that he operates like this. If he charged an extra $100 or whatever and acted like a normal company (fully assembling and testing prior to shipping out products, packaging things properly so they don't get damaged in shipping, having a mail-in warranty service, that sort of thing) I think he'd have better sales.
  - TylerE 4mo ago
    All of those things would cost a hell of a lot more than $100 unit. Probably closer to doubling the price.
- recursivedoubts 4mo ago
  See my sibling comment: the v2 beam spring keyboard (metal version) worked immediately out of the box and all I had to do was but key caps on. This is an enthusiast producing these and the beam spring mechanism is entirely redone with modern touches (e.g. support for mx style keycaps) so there is risk, but mine works great. I think that the fully enclosed beam spring mechanism should hold up better during shipping than the spring-and-barrel mechanism on the model F. Of course YMMV and it is an expensive and rare keyboard, but my experience has been good.
jmspring 4mo ago
The keyboards look janky. Why buy this over something like Das Keyboard which has mechanical keys as well and is cheaper?
- recursivedoubts 4mo ago
  Because it’s a physical mechanism that has a unique feel that modern switches don’t mimic. I like lots of keyboards and switches but this is a unique switch with deep historical roots that has been brought back to life by an enthusiast. I think it’s worth supporting (if you can afford it) on general principle.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- clhodapp 4mo ago
  Essentially every keyboard key is mechanical. Most "mechanical keyboards" are using Cherry MX or Cherry MX-like key switches. The key switches in these are as different in design from a Cherry MX switch as a Cherry MX switch is from a rubber dome.
- TwoFerMaggie 4mo ago
  MX switches are the entry point of the "mechanical keys". You can go into way too many rabbit holes beyond consumer brands like Das Keyboard. There are topre capacitive switches (HHKB, Realforce etc) , buckling spring switches like the ones in this post (& older IBM model M, Unicomp), Alps switches (older mac keyboards, matias), and an endless selection of MX compatible customized switches. All with different tactility and sound profiles. Merely "having mechanical keys" is a very basic criteria especially for enthusiasts who might have very specific requirements and preference for how their keyboards should feel and sound. This one is mainly targeted towards those enthusiasts.
  - TylerE 4mo ago
    Mechanical was always a dumb name. A collapsing rubber dome is a mechanism anyway.
  - 4mo ago
recursivedoubts 4mo ago
I have a model F and yes it was tricky to get working. The new beam spring (v2, metal case) was a breeze to set up (just put the caps on, mx style) and works flawlessly. The keyboard sits very high and it is a very different feel (long travel, very loud) but it is unlike any other keyboard I have used and very inexpensive compared to used original beam springs. Worth a look if you are a retro keyboard enthusiast.
jolmg 4mo ago
> You just have to keep in mind that you'll be paying over $400 for a keyboard that may arrive broken, and if it does you will have as close to no warranty as what's legally possible. PinePhone Pro vibes, except the PPP's problem isn't lack of QC; it's just lack of (FOSS) SW support. Pay 400 bucks, may need lots of tweaking/work to get it usable. Market is enthusiasts that aren't satisfied by anything else and/or that want to support it out of principle.
- gunalx 4mo ago
  Basically everything pine64 ships has a. We dumped all software development and support on the foss community. Problem. And the hardware isn't even that open. I do still like their non locked in approach though. And the pinephone is still one of few truly Linux phones.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
  - jolmg 4mo ago
    > And the hardware isn't even that open. It's the most open, pretty sure... What other company is selling smartphones with schematics, datasheets, and ICs you're able to get independently from electronic component distributors? Even with Purism, maybe I'm looking wrong, but I don't see the schematics and datasheets of the Librem 5. Fairphone has some schematics, but its parts list is lacking, and the components it does show aren't generally available for purchase. For example, I don't see where I can buy Fairphone 5 chipset, a QCM6490, but I can buy a Pinephone Pro's RK3399. Same with its modem, same with its PMIC, same with its eMMC, etc. It's really a gem of open hardware that's been lost.
kotaKat 4mo ago
Guess I spin around and go back to Unicomp... Kinda digging the Mini M. https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/MINI_M https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/MINI_M
kqr 4mo ago
What a contrast against MoErgo, which I recently contacted just to notify them that a keycap broke in transport due to rough handling by the postal service. Although spare keycaps came with the purchase and the broken one still worked anyway, they insisted on sending me a replacement for the keycap that broke.
- ebbi 4mo ago
  I'm eyeing a MoErgo Go60 at the moment... Which one did you buy?
  - kqr 4mo ago
    Glove80 with the heavier blossom switches, due to bad earlier experience with light linear MX switches. I could have gotten the lighter blossom variant and it would probably have been even better. (I was worried about accidental actuation but with the palm rest and key well that doesn't seem to happen much.) (From my understanding Chocs practically speaking only come in linear flavours, where the "tactile" switches are crunchy linear.) I wanted to prioritise comfort over transportability and boy is it comfortable. It's okay to transport too but with the size of its case I've had to upgrade to a bigger backpack to carry my workstation. (I work mostly from home but sometimes also from the in-laws house.) I have had it for a month so I'll write a full review later.
nsxwolf 4mo ago
I suppose you have to look at it as this person is just unwilling or unable to operate in a different way at this price point, and if you want a new beam spring keyboard, right now there is no competitor.
ndiddy 4mo ago
At about the same time ModelFKeyboards posted his comment here, somebody created a new account on that wiki, then removed much of the negative information on the page and replaced it with similar wording to the comment (including deleting a scan of the warranty policy for "DMCA reasons"). This was what the page looked like at the time I made my comment: https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Model_F_Labs&oldid=50120 https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Model_F_Labs&old... . If it was him, this would violate the wiki's conflict of interest policy: https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Conflict_of_interest_policy https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Conflict_... .
- larossmann 4mo ago
  >At about the same time ModelFKeyboards posted his comment here, somebody created a new account on that wiki, then removed much of the negative information on the page and replaced it with similar wording to the comment (including deleting a scan of the warranty policy for "DMCA reasons"). I appreciate the alert, thank you my friend.
  - ndiddy 4mo ago
    Thank you for looking into it!

by ndiddy 4mo ago

fooqux 4mo ago

Thanks for posting this. I've been looking at getting one but this has made me pause.

ndiddy 4mo ago
Yeah it's a shame because his keyboards are genuinely good, I just find it strange that he operates like this. If he charged an extra $100 or whatever and acted like a normal company (fully assembling and testing prior to shipping out products, packaging things properly so they don't get damaged in shipping, having a mail-in warranty service, that sort of thing) I think he'd have better sales.
- TylerE 4mo ago
  All of those things would cost a hell of a lot more than $100 unit. Probably closer to doubling the price.
recursivedoubts 4mo ago
See my sibling comment: the v2 beam spring keyboard (metal version) worked immediately out of the box and all I had to do was but key caps on. This is an enthusiast producing these and the beam spring mechanism is entirely redone with modern touches (e.g. support for mx style keycaps) so there is risk, but mine works great. I think that the fully enclosed beam spring mechanism should hold up better during shipping than the spring-and-barrel mechanism on the model F. Of course YMMV and it is an expensive and rare keyboard, but my experience has been good.

jmspring 4mo ago

The keyboards look janky. Why buy this over something like Das Keyboard which has mechanical keys as well and is cheaper?

recursivedoubts 4mo ago
Because it’s a physical mechanism that has a unique feel that modern switches don’t mimic. I like lots of keyboards and switches but this is a unique switch with deep historical roots that has been brought back to life by an enthusiast. I think it’s worth supporting (if you can afford it) on general principle.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
clhodapp 4mo ago
Essentially every keyboard key is mechanical. Most "mechanical keyboards" are using Cherry MX or Cherry MX-like key switches. The key switches in these are as different in design from a Cherry MX switch as a Cherry MX switch is from a rubber dome.
TwoFerMaggie 4mo ago
MX switches are the entry point of the "mechanical keys". You can go into way too many rabbit holes beyond consumer brands like Das Keyboard. There are topre capacitive switches (HHKB, Realforce etc) , buckling spring switches like the ones in this post (& older IBM model M, Unicomp), Alps switches (older mac keyboards, matias), and an endless selection of MX compatible customized switches. All with different tactility and sound profiles. Merely "having mechanical keys" is a very basic criteria especially for enthusiasts who might have very specific requirements and preference for how their keyboards should feel and sound. This one is mainly targeted towards those enthusiasts.
- TylerE 4mo ago
  Mechanical was always a dumb name. A collapsing rubber dome is a mechanism anyway.
- 4mo ago

recursivedoubts 4mo ago

I have a model F and yes it was tricky to get working. The new beam spring (v2, metal case) was a breeze to set up (just put the caps on, mx style) and works flawlessly. The keyboard sits very high and it is a very different feel (long travel, very loud) but it is unlike any other keyboard I have used and very inexpensive compared to used original beam springs. Worth a look if you are a retro keyboard enthusiast.

jolmg 4mo ago

> You just have to keep in mind that you'll be paying over $400 for a keyboard that may arrive broken, and if it does you will have as close to no warranty as what's legally possible. PinePhone Pro vibes, except the PPP's problem isn't lack of QC; it's just lack of (FOSS) SW support. Pay 400 bucks, may need lots of tweaking/work to get it usable. Market is enthusiasts that aren't satisfied by anything else and/or that want to support it out of principle.

gunalx 4mo ago
Basically everything pine64 ships has a. We dumped all software development and support on the foss community. Problem. And the hardware isn't even that open. I do still like their non locked in approach though. And the pinephone is still one of few truly Linux phones.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- jolmg 4mo ago
  > And the hardware isn't even that open. It's the most open, pretty sure... What other company is selling smartphones with schematics, datasheets, and ICs you're able to get independently from electronic component distributors? Even with Purism, maybe I'm looking wrong, but I don't see the schematics and datasheets of the Librem 5. Fairphone has some schematics, but its parts list is lacking, and the components it does show aren't generally available for purchase. For example, I don't see where I can buy Fairphone 5 chipset, a QCM6490, but I can buy a Pinephone Pro's RK3399. Same with its modem, same with its PMIC, same with its eMMC, etc. It's really a gem of open hardware that's been lost.

kotaKat 4mo ago

Guess I spin around and go back to Unicomp... Kinda digging the Mini M. https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/MINI_M https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/MINI_M

kqr 4mo ago

What a contrast against MoErgo, which I recently contacted just to notify them that a keycap broke in transport due to rough handling by the postal service. Although spare keycaps came with the purchase and the broken one still worked anyway, they insisted on sending me a replacement for the keycap that broke.

ebbi 4mo ago
I'm eyeing a MoErgo Go60 at the moment... Which one did you buy?
- kqr 4mo ago
  Glove80 with the heavier blossom switches, due to bad earlier experience with light linear MX switches. I could have gotten the lighter blossom variant and it would probably have been even better. (I was worried about accidental actuation but with the palm rest and key well that doesn't seem to happen much.) (From my understanding Chocs practically speaking only come in linear flavours, where the "tactile" switches are crunchy linear.) I wanted to prioritise comfort over transportability and boy is it comfortable. It's okay to transport too but with the size of its case I've had to upgrade to a bigger backpack to carry my workstation. (I work mostly from home but sometimes also from the in-laws house.) I have had it for a month so I'll write a full review later.

nsxwolf 4mo ago

I suppose you have to look at it as this person is just unwilling or unable to operate in a different way at this price point, and if you want a new beam spring keyboard, right now there is no competitor.

ndiddy 4mo ago

At about the same time ModelFKeyboards posted his comment here, somebody created a new account on that wiki, then removed much of the negative information on the page and replaced it with similar wording to the comment (including deleting a scan of the warranty policy for "DMCA reasons"). This was what the page looked like at the time I made my comment: https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Model_F_Labs&oldid=50120 https://consumerrights.wiki/index.php?title=Model_F_Labs&old... . If it was him, this would violate the wiki's conflict of interest policy: https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Conflict_of_interest_policy https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Consumer_Rights_Wiki:Conflict_... .

larossmann 4mo ago
>At about the same time ModelFKeyboards posted his comment here, somebody created a new account on that wiki, then removed much of the negative information on the page and replaced it with similar wording to the comment (including deleting a scan of the warranty policy for "DMCA reasons"). I appreciate the alert, thank you my friend.
- ndiddy 4mo ago
  Thank you for looking into it!