3 ms·

Defensive weapons are very much needed in Europe…

embedding-shape 4mo ago
Indeed, hence most European defense companies experiencing somewhat incredible growth recently, with no signs of stopping. Do we need Americans weapons? Unlikely and probably counter-productive long-term. Do we need European weapons? Hell yeah!
CuriouslyC 4mo ago
The new asymmetric reality is mostly short/medium range drones, ECMs and hypersonic missles. Loitering munitions are going to make tanks mostly obsolete and Jets are too expensive to risk over enemy territory that still has working radar/anti-air except for large shock&awe actions. A lot of this stuff is hard to stop and too cheap to effectively stop economically anyhow, the best solution is distance and preemptive strikes at staging areas.
- burnerRhodov3 4mo ago
  we have seen .005 radar ap is the most important because drones aren't long range enough in a real war. Ukraine and Russia should be looked at as a local conflict and not indicative how a real "war" would be fought now.
Gomotono 4mo ago
No they are not. The amount of military spending europe has, is already higher than russia. Russia clearly showed how incapable they are, they are not even able to present modern war technology at their freedom parade. And china we don't fight china.
- dijit 4mo ago
  we have about 30 years of catching up to do, better defense spending: 1) Saves our lives in Europe, by having access to better training and force multipliers. 2) Seeps into the economies of every country in the union through research spending. Defence is unambiguously a good thing, it becomes a problem if you put an expansionist cunthead at the helm of it.
  - Gomotono 4mo ago
    We can discuss if a society should have a certain amount of GDP invested into defense and i'm not necessarily against it. I would think educating people properly is good, I also think the swizz model is good in sense of everyone learns to handle a gun and can have it at home (as long as high security standards are set and its taken very serious). It could be used as a tool to strengthen societies responsibility, communication and combined with what the THW is doing (technical help org). But my statment is still true: We do not have to catch up. We are absolutly capable of defending ourselfs against the current biggest threat which is Russia.
    - dijit 4mo ago
      I think that's less true than the media would have you believe. We're undergoing a lot of propaganda about how effective Ukraine is against Russia, but that's despite most European countries practically immolating their own stockpiles of defence capability, and they're doing so somewhat unoformily (while Russia does everything they can to weaken the European homogeneity; see their funding into brexit and anti-EU seniment spreading bot farms on social media). It's definitely not a given that we can stand up to Russia with our current capability, and it's also the case that we'd be throwing human capital at the problem because we failed to adequately invest. I spoke to one person from Ukraine who was enlisted, he mentioned he was waiting for something from the UK, I asked how long does it normally take.. he told me that he doesn't measure time in weeks, but how many of his friends he he will lose. .. that hit me hard, and it made me consider who incredibly naive and coddled I was to believe that investing in military or weapons things is a "right wing" or "bad" thing. War always seems so far away until it's on your door.
      - Gomotono 4mo ago
        Its not propaganda when you can see it. We know what Putin showes in his Military parade and we know the stockpile of tanks they have and had due to satelite images. My statement still stands, we do not need to increase defence spending to beat russia. You said something different though: "We need to increase defence spending to have as little as human risk as possible". I wouldn't call it naive, more optimistic. And even before Ukraine, we do have military. EU has high tec military. Even before Ukraine, the EU spend more in military than Russia. And regarding resources for Ukraine: We do fight a proxy war. We are not fighting Russia directly. This means some people don't want to spend money and resources on this, we are nog aligned across europe and it is always very unclear how and how much we help. This would look differently if russia would declare war against the EU.

Indeed, hence most European defense companies experiencing somewhat incredible growth recently, with no signs of stopping. Do we need Americans weapons? Unlikely and probably counter-productive long-term. Do we need European weapons? Hell yeah!

CuriouslyC 4mo ago

The new asymmetric reality is mostly short/medium range drones, ECMs and hypersonic missles. Loitering munitions are going to make tanks mostly obsolete and Jets are too expensive to risk over enemy territory that still has working radar/anti-air except for large shock&awe actions. A lot of this stuff is hard to stop and too cheap to effectively stop economically anyhow, the best solution is distance and preemptive strikes at staging areas.

burnerRhodov3 4mo ago
we have seen .005 radar ap is the most important because drones aren't long range enough in a real war. Ukraine and Russia should be looked at as a local conflict and not indicative how a real "war" would be fought now.

Gomotono 4mo ago

No they are not. The amount of military spending europe has, is already higher than russia. Russia clearly showed how incapable they are, they are not even able to present modern war technology at their freedom parade. And china we don't fight china.

dijit 4mo ago
we have about 30 years of catching up to do, better defense spending: 1) Saves our lives in Europe, by having access to better training and force multipliers. 2) Seeps into the economies of every country in the union through research spending. Defence is unambiguously a good thing, it becomes a problem if you put an expansionist cunthead at the helm of it.
- Gomotono 4mo ago
  We can discuss if a society should have a certain amount of GDP invested into defense and i'm not necessarily against it. I would think educating people properly is good, I also think the swizz model is good in sense of everyone learns to handle a gun and can have it at home (as long as high security standards are set and its taken very serious). It could be used as a tool to strengthen societies responsibility, communication and combined with what the THW is doing (technical help org). But my statment is still true: We do not have to catch up. We are absolutly capable of defending ourselfs against the current biggest threat which is Russia.
  - dijit 4mo ago
    I think that's less true than the media would have you believe. We're undergoing a lot of propaganda about how effective Ukraine is against Russia, but that's despite most European countries practically immolating their own stockpiles of defence capability, and they're doing so somewhat unoformily (while Russia does everything they can to weaken the European homogeneity; see their funding into brexit and anti-EU seniment spreading bot farms on social media). It's definitely not a given that we can stand up to Russia with our current capability, and it's also the case that we'd be throwing human capital at the problem because we failed to adequately invest. I spoke to one person from Ukraine who was enlisted, he mentioned he was waiting for something from the UK, I asked how long does it normally take.. he told me that he doesn't measure time in weeks, but how many of his friends he he will lose. .. that hit me hard, and it made me consider who incredibly naive and coddled I was to believe that investing in military or weapons things is a "right wing" or "bad" thing. War always seems so far away until it's on your door.
    - Gomotono 4mo ago
      Its not propaganda when you can see it. We know what Putin showes in his Military parade and we know the stockpile of tanks they have and had due to satelite images. My statement still stands, we do not need to increase defence spending to beat russia. You said something different though: "We need to increase defence spending to have as little as human risk as possible". I wouldn't call it naive, more optimistic. And even before Ukraine, we do have military. EU has high tec military. Even before Ukraine, the EU spend more in military than Russia. And regarding resources for Ukraine: We do fight a proxy war. We are not fighting Russia directly. This means some people don't want to spend money and resources on this, we are nog aligned across europe and it is always very unclear how and how much we help. This would look differently if russia would declare war against the EU.