5 ms·

It’s not irrational, the comments literally explain in great detail the downsides of the regulation. For example one commenter in this thread said: >See also

by Dig1t 4mo ago

It’s not irrational, the comments literally explain in great detail the downsides of the regulation. For example one commenter in this thread said: >See also car fuel economy standards that push car makers into killing the wagon market segment in favor of SUVs. This is an objectively true and prove-able statement. What is irrational about that? WRT regulation the only thing that matters is the incentives that it creates. >If this is how the bill ends up being enacted, it will only push more big game developers into making their titles subscription only. This is a valid concern and a real incentive if that’s how the law works. What is irrational about this argument?

Telaneo 4mo ago
Bad regulation should't be reperesentaive or regulation as a whole. If you don't get it right the first time, you're allowed to try again, and that's what should be done with regulations providing bad incentives. Gaming has already gone though a period of pushing subscription games, and most died, since people generally didn't want to pay a fee per game they played. That only left the big players in that space, while everybkdy else went back to releasing games the normal way. I fail to see why things would go a different way this time around.
- infinite_spin 4mo ago
  The legal system is kind of like an evolutionary process. We try things, see if they work, and adjust over time. So far I think this has indeed led to a better legal system, but I can see why the set backs and injustices of the world make that difficult to assess. Regulation also creates jobs, even bad regulation, so there's almost a Keynesian argument to be had about its relationship to our economic system.
- Ferret7446 4mo ago
  Bad regulation is representative of regulation as a whole, because most of it is bad, or at least ineffectual, particularly in California.
  - wsve 4mo ago
    Blanket dismissal of regulations is about as silly as a blanket dismissal of laws. Some laws are "bad", some are "good", but the point is who do they hurt, and who do they serve? Regulations are tools, like laws, and can be written to serve the needs of the people, for good things.
    - Dig1t 4mo ago
      I'm not even saying this should be dismissed with a blanket dismissal. First example is a reminder that regulation can be bad. Second is an actual concern about this specific regulation. This is a concrete concern about the incentives it creates. There wasn't a single response to this comment about exactly WHY questioning effectiveness of it is irrational.
      - infinite_spin 4mo ago
        I think a study of regulatory capture would definitely support your views
      - wsve 4mo ago
        > Second is an actual concern about this specific regulation. This is a concrete concern about the incentives it creates. Like I said in my OP comment, the problem with saying "this regulation will push devs to subscription-based game models" is that it does not explain why that would happen. It just assumes it would. This argument to me is like saying "forcing people to wear seatbelts will push them to take the bus instead". Why would this be such a problem that people ditch their whole mode of transit? I see it that way because I can't think of a single case where designing your game server architecture with decommissioning and redistributing to your users in mind would be difficult or costly at all, and I have seen no convincing explanations
  - Telaneo 4mo ago
    Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
crooked-v 4mo ago
The "in favor of SUVs" part only exists because light trucks were specifically exempted from regulations to pander to specific subsets of voters.
- etiennebausson 4mo ago
  It's not voting policy, it's protectionism. It's all about limiting foreign build vehicle encroachment on US market.
qotgalaxy 4mo ago
[dead]
wsve 4mo ago
>See also car fuel economy standards that push car makers into killing the wagon market segment in favor of SUVs. All this says is that it's possible for regulations to have negative, unintended consequences. It's about as relevant as reminding your friends that some restaurants are not very good when you're picking a place to eat. It's not relevant when we're talking about something specific and the field of things is varied. > WRT regulation the only thing that matters is the incentives that it creates. Sure. What are the negative incentives? >If this is how the bill ends up being enacted, it will only push more big game developers into making their titles subscription only. Why? What is the incentive away from one-time purchases? Is it cost? Where is that cost coming from?
- zdragnar 4mo ago
  > It's about as relevant as reminding your friends that some restaurants are not very good when you're picking a place to eat Interestingly, restaurant food is typically less healthy, more expensive and less tasty than what you can make at home. Eating out should be the exception, not the rule, which plays directly plays into the anti regulation argument.
  - wsve 4mo ago
    That is very far from the point, not only because what I meant was that some restaurants are not as good compared to others, but also because the connection between eating out vs eating at home and regulations is basically non-existent? I don't really understand what you're saying. The point is saying "some regulations have downsides" is meaningless in conversation about a particular regulation, just like saying "some restaurants don't serve very tasty food" is meaningless in a conversation about "should we try that new Thai place on 3rd street?"
    - zdragnar 4mo ago
      I suspect that's because you wrongly assume the other side is saying "some regulations have downsides". It's more likely they're saying "all regulations have unintended consequences" and thus deserve extra scrutiny when considering them. If that is the case, then the analogy is fitting again; even "good" restaurants are often a poor substitute for eating at home, and so shouldn't be a first line of consideration.
Dylan16807 4mo ago
In what way is "see also" objectively true? I mean in a literal sense I guess it's true but only in a way that has zero connection to the post. They might as well have told me a fun fact about crickets. If it's supposed to argue against this regulation then their actual point stops being objectively true and it probably is irrational to bring up those car standards without way more justification.

by Dig1t 4mo ago

Telaneo 4mo ago

Bad regulation should't be reperesentaive or regulation as a whole. If you don't get it right the first time, you're allowed to try again, and that's what should be done with regulations providing bad incentives. Gaming has already gone though a period of pushing subscription games, and most died, since people generally didn't want to pay a fee per game they played. That only left the big players in that space, while everybkdy else went back to releasing games the normal way. I fail to see why things would go a different way this time around.

infinite_spin 4mo ago
The legal system is kind of like an evolutionary process. We try things, see if they work, and adjust over time. So far I think this has indeed led to a better legal system, but I can see why the set backs and injustices of the world make that difficult to assess. Regulation also creates jobs, even bad regulation, so there's almost a Keynesian argument to be had about its relationship to our economic system.
Ferret7446 4mo ago
Bad regulation is representative of regulation as a whole, because most of it is bad, or at least ineffectual, particularly in California.
- wsve 4mo ago
  Blanket dismissal of regulations is about as silly as a blanket dismissal of laws. Some laws are "bad", some are "good", but the point is who do they hurt, and who do they serve? Regulations are tools, like laws, and can be written to serve the needs of the people, for good things.
  - Dig1t 4mo ago
    I'm not even saying this should be dismissed with a blanket dismissal. First example is a reminder that regulation can be bad. Second is an actual concern about this specific regulation. This is a concrete concern about the incentives it creates. There wasn't a single response to this comment about exactly WHY questioning effectiveness of it is irrational.
    - infinite_spin 4mo ago
      I think a study of regulatory capture would definitely support your views
    - wsve 4mo ago
      > Second is an actual concern about this specific regulation. This is a concrete concern about the incentives it creates. Like I said in my OP comment, the problem with saying "this regulation will push devs to subscription-based game models" is that it does not explain why that would happen. It just assumes it would. This argument to me is like saying "forcing people to wear seatbelts will push them to take the bus instead". Why would this be such a problem that people ditch their whole mode of transit? I see it that way because I can't think of a single case where designing your game server architecture with decommissioning and redistributing to your users in mind would be difficult or costly at all, and I have seen no convincing explanations
- Telaneo 4mo ago
  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

crooked-v 4mo ago

The "in favor of SUVs" part only exists because light trucks were specifically exempted from regulations to pander to specific subsets of voters.

etiennebausson 4mo ago
It's not voting policy, it's protectionism. It's all about limiting foreign build vehicle encroachment on US market.

qotgalaxy 4mo ago

[dead]

wsve 4mo ago

>See also car fuel economy standards that push car makers into killing the wagon market segment in favor of SUVs. All this says is that it's possible for regulations to have negative, unintended consequences. It's about as relevant as reminding your friends that some restaurants are not very good when you're picking a place to eat. It's not relevant when we're talking about something specific and the field of things is varied. > WRT regulation the only thing that matters is the incentives that it creates. Sure. What are the negative incentives? >If this is how the bill ends up being enacted, it will only push more big game developers into making their titles subscription only. Why? What is the incentive away from one-time purchases? Is it cost? Where is that cost coming from?

zdragnar 4mo ago
> It's about as relevant as reminding your friends that some restaurants are not very good when you're picking a place to eat Interestingly, restaurant food is typically less healthy, more expensive and less tasty than what you can make at home. Eating out should be the exception, not the rule, which plays directly plays into the anti regulation argument.
- wsve 4mo ago
  That is very far from the point, not only because what I meant was that some restaurants are not as good compared to others, but also because the connection between eating out vs eating at home and regulations is basically non-existent? I don't really understand what you're saying. The point is saying "some regulations have downsides" is meaningless in conversation about a particular regulation, just like saying "some restaurants don't serve very tasty food" is meaningless in a conversation about "should we try that new Thai place on 3rd street?"
  - zdragnar 4mo ago
    I suspect that's because you wrongly assume the other side is saying "some regulations have downsides". It's more likely they're saying "all regulations have unintended consequences" and thus deserve extra scrutiny when considering them. If that is the case, then the analogy is fitting again; even "good" restaurants are often a poor substitute for eating at home, and so shouldn't be a first line of consideration.

Dylan16807 4mo ago

In what way is "see also" objectively true? I mean in a literal sense I guess it's true but only in a way that has zero connection to the post. They might as well have told me a fun fact about crickets. If it's supposed to argue against this regulation then their actual point stops being objectively true and it probably is irrational to bring up those car standards without way more justification.